Breakfast Topic: Are you afraid of the PUG?
by Jason Danklefsen 
Oct 16th 2011 at 8:00AM
I'll admit it. I'm a chicken.
I wasn't always. Back in the day, I played a paladin, I was in a raiding guild, and I tanked. Lord, how I tanked. I tanked 5-mans. I tanked heroics. I tanked raids. And I loved it! But eventually the guild collapsed, my pally tank became a retadin, and then I took a break.
After I came back to WoW and spent a considerable amount of time with a variety of alts, I realized I missed tanking. So I started a brand new warrior. He was going to be a prot god. I grabbed the right gear. I took the right talents. I was amazing ... when I was alone questing. See, I hadn't tanked in a while, and I was on a new server, so I didn't have the friendly support of a guild group to help me get my feet wet. When I got my first Deadmines quest, I queued in the Dungeon Finder -- and I immediately unqueued. Just one more level. I'd be ready to tank in one more level.
But I didn't tank The Deadmines. Then I didn't tank any other dungeons. And now I'm 70 and still telling myself, One more level. Just one more level.
It's not that I don't know how to tank, and I know that tanking is easier now than ever before, thanks to the recent threat changes. But I also know that PUGs can be heartless and unforgiving. And for some reason, I'm afraid of that heartlessness and ... unforgivingness. Of course, I should just join a guild, but before I get to know them, it'll be just like a PUG, except that my performance will actually matter, which makes it worse. I'm sure that eventually my desire to tank will overcome my fear of tanking, but not today. Maybe at 71.
Is there anything you've wanted to do in game that you've been afraid to do because of the opinions of strangers?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Abbaton Oct 16th 2011 8:06AM
I always have this issue too at 85, being the dungeon tool is constantly filled with impatient and elitist players.
Killik Oct 16th 2011 11:08AM
It really isn't. But a run-in with 'That Guy' looms larger in your mind than the 50-60 perfectly nice people you grouped with before that.
If anything, I found Dungeon Finder groups *too* understanding of my weaksauce attempts to learn healing. I felt so guilty letting them down! Mind you, there was also no shortage of tanks and dps who were drawn irresistibly to pretty, shiny patches of fire on the ground.
Noyou Oct 16th 2011 11:41AM
Past the fear stage, onto the "screw you" phase. The only time I do LFD is for holiday bosses or if we have a guild group and only need one more.
Aruhgulah Oct 16th 2011 12:57PM
I run a pally tank. Due to health issues, I've been behind the curve a ways in gearing, AND after seeing fellow guildies badmouth all the tanks they've run across in PUGs, I refused to run heroics and PUGs for a long while (and let those guildies know why I wouldn't run with them -- you badmouth someone's mistakes like that, what are you saying behind MY back??).
I've started in again, and have been running PUGs on regular; I listen to healers, I don't GOGOGO, I have patience with just-learning-new-spec folks, and I try to pace the run to the group. I'm happy to say that last night was the first time I ran into problems with any of the DPS, a couple hunters in succession that insisted on pulling mobs before we were ready -- or in the middle of another fight, when the healer was running OOM.
The first one got a warning: "Tank pulls. If you pull again, I'll kick." And I followed thru when he did it again, and the kick passed. The replacement also pulled without us being ready, and also got the warning (along with "we kicked the last guy for doing that"). That settled him down.
Sometimes it's just a matter of sending the message "we won't tolerate this". Though I still won't run heroics on PUGs or Guild groups, because the few times I *have*, those heroics have been incredibly unforgiving and un-fun, and the player base snark goes up accordingly.
Kendro Oct 16th 2011 1:38PM
I have a problem with pugs being often filled with horrible players, forcing everyone to carry them. Who would rather extend a heroic 30 minutes for everyone to carry them, than spend 5 minutes to learn how to play their class.
See what I did there? I took the exact same thing you did with players who most likely just want a clean run, with no hassles, and turned it around against everyone who doesn't want that. It is easy to demonize, and the easy way is often the wrong way when it comes to dealing with people.
Jabadabadana Oct 16th 2011 2:13PM
To be honest as tank, this is my standard dungeon run.
(hello may or may not be said by anyone)
(insert one mechanic based comment for that one boss/pull that needs it)
Thanks all, ciao
(end dungeon)
No douchebags, no gogogo, but also no conversation. Makes runs relatively stress free, but can also be boring if I'm not otherwise talking to people in vent, or have good music running. (I find happy talking groups are often also more forgiving of anyone's errors)
But really, less fear of tanking. As long as you are aware of healer mana, fight mechanics, and your own capabilities, you'll find tanking to be at worst painless, and at best a lot of fun, the vast majority of the time.
For everything else, there's votekick.
I-R-PALADIN? Oct 16th 2011 3:40PM
read some of the posts here.. i agree with how the wow community has become i liked it allot better back when i started "2006" people would actually talk to you. i used to tank and heal allot more back pre-wrath as a pally not so much anymore because of a few people who couldn't get over themselves, its just a game so i dont really care in the long run. ive never understood why people have to go out of there way to make others feel like crap.
TonyMcS Oct 16th 2011 8:08PM
I have 6 level 85s with DPS on a number of specs as well as 3 healers and a pally tank. I raid FL on my Druid tree and all my toons are average item level 364-365. I've played since Vanilla and done most of the dungeons and raids, but I've let the Cata RDF languish due to the drama or wipefests and now virtually all my toons have never done a RDF Cata dungeon. My gear has been obtained from PvP honor points to justice, rep, crafting, BoEs, a few Guild heroics/raids and a few high level PvP pieces, yet all my toons are capable of raiding the FL.
I just don't see the RDF as a useful method for gearing anymore, given the existing population of arseholes. It has the same attraction as banging your head against a wall - it feels good when it stops. However, you can just ignore it and take the route least travelled by and still enjoy raiding.
troy_stoltz Oct 17th 2011 12:15PM
My favorite is when I am healing a heroic PUG and we wipe. I see tons of mistakes. DPS standing in the fire. Tank can't keep aggro. I keep them healed for a while but then it all falls apart. I am not trying to blow my own horn but I can usually hold my own. Very few complaints and usually no problems. Rarely ever kicked. But these groups will occasionally kick me after the wipe with no explanation or warning. I have fairly thick skin but it makes you doubt yourself a little. Not saying I don't make mistakes occasionally but I feel like I am good enough to know when I have messed up. You really have to just learn to ignore it. I think that is why people in PUGs are so rude. They have been picked on themselves in the past when they were learning and it is the norm.
Literaltruth Oct 16th 2011 8:07AM
My story almost exactly mirrors the OP. I healed all the way through Wrath - but took a break of a couple of months just before cata and a little into it. When I started leveling I felt so far behind the curve that I was too nervour to tackle the new healing model and the fact that I might not be perfect straight out of the gate just made me stick to Shadow on my priest. Then Kitty on my druid. Then Enh on my Shaman.
I knew how to heal - but my fear of derision if I went OOM or let someone die because I wasn't quite up to speed just meant that the RDF lost one healer in its queues. Eventually I got over it - and once I did, I realised that even with the difference I actually was going the harder route for me by DPSing....I would have probably found those initial dungeons a lot better if I had stuck with what I was used to - rather than having to brush off long-forgotten DPSing skills.
Jere Hunter Oct 16th 2011 9:55AM
Same thing. During Wrath I could faceroll heal anything. Bad undergeared tank no problem, bad dps no problem, bad undergeared tank and bad dps, you guys better let me drink some mana. I get to Cat, I did the alt thing, had to take healbot off because of disk space (Wow is getting to be a big boy, yes you are, yes you are) I get more buttons to hit for heals and its a little scary at first, but I get some gear thats good and SUDDENLY I cant heal at all WTF. The better and better gear I got, the worse and worse my healing got, I couldnt keep epic tanks that knew what they were doing up. That scared me out of LFG, and we all know, LFG needs to have healers too scared to play
Tai Oct 16th 2011 8:18AM
Does this sound familiar! I have a 80 pally tank sitting unlevelled. I am leaving her for last because I am too nervous to try tanking with her in a pug. I tanked heroics and even raids in BC, I tanked some randoms at the end of Wrath, but it was awful. I could tank, but the gogogo and the dps who couldn't watch threat and the general abuse was too much.Even on my dps I avoid randoms.
Sunflowers4488 Oct 16th 2011 8:18AM
Even though I've had some pretty awful PuG groups, I still refuse to be afraid to brush myself off and throw myself back into it. I refuse to let them win. Because for as many bad groups as I've had, I've had just as many completely silent and capable groups. And I've even met some friends in PuGs, too.
I will say, though, that I usually heal for PuGs.
It makes me sad when I see people say 'I will never PuG again, I ONLY run with my guildies!'. I'm sad the community drives people to this, and I'm sad that even though I am always friendly, polite, and helpful.. that doesn't seem to make a difference.
Part of the fun for me on WoW is a constantly evolving group of awesome people to play with, and as PuGs are slowly dying, that rush of finding someone you just *click* with in a random group is less common. C'est la vie.
blazenor Oct 16th 2011 10:31AM
I don't understand the whole "I'm only running with guildies" from players, why limit yourself that way. Why not just run with players from your realm only instead of just guild members?
Sleutel Oct 16th 2011 11:25AM
I run with guildies as much as possible because when I don't, I sometimes have awesome experiences (timed ZA run without even trying for it), but more often I have terrible ones. Let me tell you about the last time I queued for a random Cata non-Troll Heroic...
I ended up in Grim Batol. The DPS was all pretty low, but mine (as the tank) was pretty high, so I was able to make up for most of that. We wiped a couple of times on Drahga, until I managed to impress on them that "kite and focus down the adds when they spawn" really meant that, but they were learning, so I didn't mind explaining (over and over). But then we got to Erudax: the one boss that I absolutely could not carry them through. And we wiped, and wiped, and wiped, for a combination of reasons: no interrupts but mine, no one slowing but me (stance-dancing to Hamstring), low DPS, and the same people never running in for Gale.
After several wipes, most of the group dropped, and a couple of new people came in... only to face the same problems, but this time without even the excuses the first group had, since the new DPSs' classes had short-CD interrupts and slows. Then some from that set dropped, and others cycled in. Out of sheer stubbornness (I wanted my bonus loot bag, dammit), I spent over an hour and a half with more than ten different players--JUST on that one boss. And we never downed it; I eventually gave up, because I needed to get to sleep for work the next morning.
So. Given a choice between queuing with people who don't understand anything about how to use their characters, and people who are 7/7 in Heroic Firelands, who would YOU rather run with?
Noyou Oct 16th 2011 11:46AM
Why? Because the % that I will hook up with a douche is greater in my mind than the % that I will meet a cool person. Even in the decent run, people hardly talk and are not all that social. So to me, it's just not worth it. I miss the days of WG, grouping up into a raid and socializing before the BG. Those days are gone.
EverythingRuned Oct 16th 2011 11:55AM
I don't know... depending on your guild (aka if it is a social or low-progression raiding guild), guildies might be equal or lower in skill than the average pug. And you don't even get your LFG bonus!
There's something about the anonymity of LFG that gives me more confidence- if anything really turns sour or just isn't working out, I can theoretically leave and go quest without hurting anyone's feelings. I can't remember this happening in recent times, but it's nice to know you have the option.
vocenoctum Oct 16th 2011 7:11PM
I'm in one of those casual guilds where it's usually faster/better for me to just queue for a random rather than answer the call of "anyone wanna do a troll heroic?". I've done it a few times, but the couple guys that I can say are competent, usually end up leaving for a raiding guild. Others act like asshats in the party, argue, or are just horrible with their class. (Even when I offer advice.)
The funniest was not too long ago, this tank I dislike wanted to queue, I was already in queue on my dk dps and my queue pops and it's the guild tank. He didn't notice I was a guildie, and I didn't mention it, until on the very last encounter he noticed I was.
He refered to me as "DK", was quite condescending to the entire group and it was mostly through the skills of an excellent healer that we made it through. Then he realizes I'm a guildie and suddenly he's friendly and chatty. Suddenly there's a "real person" in the group, not just some faceless clown to do what they're told...
Phyrae Oct 16th 2011 8:19AM
When I decided I want to tank on my feral druid, I created a macro which got posted every time I entered a dungeon. It went something like "Hi there, I'm a noob, bear with me or please leave now, I'm still learning how to tank". Never had any trouble until I learned what I was doing and the macro went to trash.
tommydambrosio26 Oct 16th 2011 11:31AM
Haha bear with me, clever ;)