Encrypted Text: The complexities of rogue DPS

I am often asked about my favorite aspect of the rogue class. While our plethora of cooldowns are quite amazing and Stealth defines the class from an outsider's view, they're simply not relevant that often. Stealth is what rogues do when they're not in combat, and our cooldowns are only effective occasionally. The most pervasive portion of the rogue experience is our rotation system, which we're dealing with during every single second of every combat engagement.
I have played my wife's retribution paladin a few times, and suffice it to say that I hate the spec with every fiber of my being. I hated their old FCFS priority system in Wrath, and I hate their new, holy power-infused "rotation" of Cataclysm. There are so many procs and random events that it's impossible to work out any sort of fixed strategy or priority system. Rogue rotations are actually true rotations, capable of being quantified and easily repeatable. Our combo point and energy systems work together to create a functional DPS model that hasn't changed since the game's original inception.
The definition of rotation
Rogues are a completely rotation-based DPS class. We don't have any procs to manage or ability priority systems. We create combo points via a generator, and then we unleash them with a finisher. The generator might change based on our talent spec or positioning, and every build uses different finishers, but the pairing of generator-finisher is responsible for our entire DPS rotation. Every attack we have either generates combo points or releases them. None of our attacks have cooldowns, and we don't rely on buffs or procs to activate any special abilities.
I can understand how, at first glance, rogue DPS can seem very vanilla. In the old days, we could describe our rotations with just a few letters like "3s5r5e" or another jumble of letters and numbers. The truth is that there is more depth to the rogue rotation than meets the eye. Even though we only use a handful of abilities and our rotations are relatively fixed, there is still plenty of room for optimization. Rogues thrive on maximizing their performance, and knowing the subtle differences in our attack strategies is one of the aspects that separates the professionals from the amateurs.
Assassins worry about debuff uptime
For an assassination rogue, debuff uptime is our most important concern. Deadly Poison is the backbone for our poison damage (via both our poisons and Envenom), and Rupture provides us with bonus damage and energy via Venomous Wounds.
Maintaining our debuffs is one of the simplest ways to increase our DPS. For example, when we're forced to spend time away from a boss, we can use our Throw ability coupled with Deadly Poison on our throwing weapon to refresh our Deadly Poison stack. Rogues need to be looking for opportunities to ensure that Deadly Poison stays active if at all possible. We can also refresh Rupture at fewer than 5 combo points to maintain uptime, as keeping Rupture active at all times is far more important. We also want to burn our final combo points on a dying add into a Rupture, as we'll get a huge energy boost once the add dies.
A more advanced tactic for assassination rogues involves maximizing your Envenom uptime. After using Envenom, we get a boost to our poison proc rates via the Envenom buff, which increases our DPS. In order to get the biggest benefit from the Envenom buff, we want to ensure that we don't overwrite our Envenom buff. Once we Envenom, we could actually be ready to Envenom again after just one Mutilate. Rather than Envenoming again immediately, we should pool our energy until the previous Envenom buff wears off. In addition to ensuring we don't overwrite the Envenom buff, we can also use the pooled energy to sneak in extra attacks in the Envenom window, further boosting our DPS.
Combat rogues keep it simple
The combat rotation has varied dramatically through the years, beginning with Backstabbing as combat dagger rogues and moving toward today's axe-wielding lumberjack. Today's version of combat is quite possibly the simplest yet. We focus on keeping Slice and Dice active, and then using damaging finishers to deal additional damage. The simple nature of combat's rotation is contrasted against the complexities of Bandit's Guile and energy regeneration, which play a large role in optimizing the spec.
Rupture has long been a mainstay of the combat rotation, but it's actually fallen out of use lately. Without the bleed debuff to prop up Rupture's damage, it's actually a DPS loss to use. In most dungeons and 10-man raid environments, you're better off just Eviscerating instead. Even when you have all of the appropriate buffs and debuffs, using Rupture is only a slight DPS boost, and even then only when we're fighting a single target. Because Rupture is a debuff, it isn't applied to our Blade Flurry targets, making Eviscerate the obvious choice whenever Blade Flurry is active. Many combat rogues are moving to an entirely Eviscerate-based rotation, because the simplicity of the spec allows for us to focus on more important things in the encounter.
Bandit's Guile is the most interesting part of the combat rotation. It is often times worth it to delay swapping to a new target if we're currently at 30% BG, as we'll be resetting BG when we switch. We also want to line up our Killing Spree cooldowns with a 30% BG period, while avoiding capping our energy. Adrenaline Rush can also make it difficult to keep our energy regeneration under control. Before popping Adrenaline Rush or before your raid uses Bloodlust, you should be prepared to unload abilities on every global cooldown. If Slice and Dice is already active, you'll just be mashing Sinister Strike and Eviscerate. Don't allow energy surpluses to take you by surprise.
Subtlety's mixed signals
Subtlety is a spec that has the least theorycrafting background, and because of that, every model of subtlety DPS is somewhat incomplete. Aldriana and others have poured hundreds of hours over years into our current understandings of combat and assassination, but subtlety remains uncharted. Even the leading subtlety rogues operate independently, prioritizing Rupture, Slice and Dice, and Recuperate differently. The spec has a long way to go until it is fully mature.
The key to playing subtlety effectively is to never be wasteful. With a plethora of finishers to choose from, subtlety rogues need to use every combo wisely and quickly. Assassination rogues can sit on 5 combo points while their energy pools, but Honor Among Thieves forbids subtlety rogues from waiting to use a finisher. As a subtlety rogue, you're aiming to maximize your Rupture, Recuperate, and Slice and Dice uptimes. You need to constantly be monitoring the durations of each, and then making the appropriate choices to keep all three active as often as possible.
Shadow Dance also provides an opportunity for experienced subtlety rogues to show off their skills. While Shadow Dance is active, sub rogues have to deftly weave Ambushes into their rotation, which completely throws off their normal groove. In addition, you want to ensure that you end your Shadow Dance with a final Ambush right as the buff is about to expire, extending Find Weakness as long as possible. Subtlety rogues are able to express their DPS in so many different ways, but it's hard to give definitive advice when there's so much yet to be discovered.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Cyno01 Oct 19th 2011 9:16AM
Sub is definitly complicated from a rotational standpoint, and it can vary from fight to fight depending on movement and target switching.
Slice and dice #1 of course, but do you refresh Recuperate, do you throw a evisc to refresh rupture, is rupture even worth keeping up if you have to hemo yourself, is dp about to fall off do you shiv even if youre cp capped, are you about to have to switch targets, do you refresh rupture before switching and go onto the next target with recuperate falling off...
I soldier on even with the lack of theorycrafting and doing what i can from my own parses, im usually competitive on the meters, usually beating out better geared rogues of other specs in BH pugs, but the survivability, movement and bust are so useful on certain fights. A good shadow dance and you can turn ryloth 90% almost by yourself.
Narlic Oct 19th 2011 9:29AM
Something that's additionally important to mention about combat's finishers is that they aren't just there for their own damage; they're there to reduce the cooldowns of Adrenaline Rush (and less importantly Killing Spree and Sprint). A full third of our (single target) damage often comes from white attacks, and the 20% melee attack speed boost from AR is terribly important. Getting those 4+ evis off means 8 to 10 seconds taken off of that AR cooldown, bringing you closer and closer to another burst of swing speed.
I am far from the greatest rogue, but I can see 25% uptime on Adrenaline Rush during a Baleroc kill, just as an example. That means I'm seeing 20 seconds of buff and only 60 seconds of actual cooldown, on average. The base cooldown is three minutes! That's amazing!
The reduced cooldowns of combat are one of the most potent aspects of the spec, in my opinion.
Narlic Oct 19th 2011 3:49PM
I should have said "60 seconds of downtime," to be more accurate. The effective cooldown is 80 seconds.
Rai Oct 19th 2011 9:45AM
Q for the ET.
I've played a rogue as my main since I started playing back in TBC and it's remained my favourite class. However, every time I've tried to approach Combat spec in Cataclysm I've been immediatly put off by the clunkiness of Revealing Strike.
Please could someone explain or provide a link explaining how it's supposed to work, the best time to use it and all that jazz? I'd check ElitistJerks but I'd much rather hear a straight answer from one of the many experts here.
BlindWorg Oct 19th 2011 10:11AM
Quite simple, the best possible place to use RS is when you have 4 combo points and you are going to use Eviscerate on the next finisher. There was one time that RS increased SnD duration even further and it didnt consume the debuff on your target. Sadly this was removed some time ago.
One thing to watch out for, most likely if you are a good combat rogue you are using Glyph of Sinister Strike. Theres a 20% chance that when you are at 3 points and you jump straight to 5 points since the glyph procced. At this time its not generally worth to use RS since you are wasting combo points then,
Elofax Oct 19th 2011 10:13AM
Sure. Revealing Strike as a combo point generator is pretty weak in damage/energy efficiency compared to Sinister Strike (and also doesn't have a chance of proccing an extra combo point), so it is rarely worth using in and of itself. The only time Revealing Strike should be used is when you are at EXACTLY 4 combo points (and you would thus risk wasting a SS glyph proc if you were to use SS); the boost to the ensuing 5-point finisher's damage, coupled with the loss of the SS combo point proc advantage, makes Revealing Strike worth using in this situation (and only this situation). At any other time, adding in a Revealing Strike results in a net loss of dps.
viciouspen Oct 19th 2011 10:26AM
I never found revealing strike all that difficult to understand when to use.
For me it's when I'm on my 3rd or 4th combo point, that way I know I'll be able to get teh 5th and use my eviscirate while the debuff is still on the target.
mainly you just use it right before you use an evisicerate (or rupture for that matter if you're using it)
Siorra Oct 19th 2011 11:39AM
Another good tip is to always use it as your last CP builder before using SnD. That way it's up on the target and chances are you'll knock out another 5CP's and perform a finisher before the debuff runs out.
But other than that for maximum outage, always use on 4 CP's before a damaging finisher.
Rai Oct 19th 2011 12:20PM
So I should not use RS if I'm on five combo points, and use it if I'm on three or four?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.
gewalt Oct 19th 2011 12:30PM
If you have exactly 4 combo points and know for a fact that you need to use a evis or rupture (NOT SND) for your finisher, you use revealing strike. never touch it unless.
gewalt Oct 19th 2011 12:31PM
no, never use RS on 3 combo points. reason being is it cannot proc bonus combo point. you ONLY use RS to make sure you dont waste procced combo points. so only use it at exactly 4 combo points.
Rai Oct 19th 2011 12:33PM
Ah, gotcha. Thank you very much.
BlindWorg Oct 19th 2011 9:50AM
When i got my heroic Freeding Frenzy and pretty much forced to respec from Combat to either one of the other specs, i went with sublety and never looked back with regret. Only drawback to it for me atm is that my other raiders jokingly complain about my spec since they miss my killer Blade Flurry and that i still have to respec back to combat for heroic Majordomo for handling kitties with that killer ability =3
Anyways, for my personal rotation priorization for PvE i go with:
1st: Rupture. That 16% damage buff from Sanguinary Vein is too good to be dropped for even a half a second. If i get a warning on my SliceAdmiral that Rupture and either SnD/Recup has 3 seconds left, i always pick up Rupture and do a 5 point Eviscerate to refresh it.
Im still not 100% sure if the bleeds from other class's are enough to give us the damage buff but since the talent tooltip doesnt state otherwise, i assume they do. If you have a bleed from another player then Rupture drops down to the 3rd place and is replaced by Recuparate (though it is still pretty hard to let rupture drop with the Serrated Blades talent anyway).
2nd: Recuparate. Free energy is always good yah? Especially when you go spamming Ambush in Shadow Dance, you need to squeeze that last bit of yellow resource.
3rd: SnD. As Sublety this is just a medium sized dmg boost from auto attacks though you still dont want to ignore it.
Pro tip: When your raid is preparing to pull the boss, target the boss and let the pre-pull healing crits fill up your combo points so you can do a 5 point SnD/Recup before the tank pulls. You can always to ask nicely for them to do a few heals if its not full :P
Im pulling between 25-28k dps on any given single target. One time i peaked at 30k in Baradin Hold. Dont take this as swaggering please, this is simply for referance.
Cyno01 Oct 19th 2011 10:11AM
I've seen better numbers with sub prioritizing SnD over anything else, white damage is a smaller % of our damage than the other specs, but its still #1, and poisons are usually 4 and 5.
My breakdown on most fights if i didnt fuck up and pop shadow dance and then have the mob turn around or something like that, is generally White Hits>Backstab>Ambush>IP/DP/rupture. Rupture seems like such a small percentage of my damage i wonder if its worth keeping that and the hemo debuff up sometimes, but with eviscerate its a free refresh, so every little bit helps i guess.
BlindWorg Oct 19th 2011 10:24AM
*shrug* With me its usually Backstab>Ambush>White>rest. I guess this is what Chase meant when he said that Sub is a territory where no man has gone before, no one truly knows what is the most uber best optimized rotation. As long as im topping my raids damage meters in single target fights then im happy =3 Ego ftw!
About the rupture, it IS definately worht to keep both Hemo and Rup up. You need it for the 16% damage buff you get AND if you are good enough you dont ever need to do Rupture more than once per mob since you are refreshing it every time with Eviscerate. And with Hemo's low energy cost and 1 minute duration, it really is worth to use it if you dont raid with a Feral Druid or a Warrior who applies his/her own 30% bleed dmg buff, cant remember which spec did that >.>
Edymnion Oct 19th 2011 10:04AM
Another error, you mentioned wanting to hold off switching because of Bandit's Guile being maxxed out on your current target. Redirect will transfer your BG stack over to the new target along with your combo points.
Chase Christian Oct 19th 2011 10:50AM
Redirect does move Bandit's Guile, as I mentioned last week, but Redirect isn't normally available. If every add came out exactly 60 seconds after the last one did, then yes, Redirect would fix everything. That's just not the world we live in.
BlindWorg Oct 19th 2011 11:18AM
Dont get me wrong, you write good articles for Encrypted Text but its these little quirks that make me wonder if you even play a rogue in the first play ( Dont stab me D: )
Restless Blades not only reduces cooldown on Adrenaline Rush, Sprint and Killing Spree, it ALSO reduces cooldown on Redirect. *pop Evasion and Combat Readiness*
Chase Christian Oct 19th 2011 11:26AM
Scratch 60 seconds for whatever period of time we get on the boss before adds come out. The point is the Redirect isn't available enough for the fights where it's needed: see Majordomo Staghelm, Ragnaros, Beth'tilac (depending), Rhyolith (depending).
Jex Oct 19th 2011 12:12PM
I understand the global point you're trying to make about rotations and I agree with it. That said, I'm not sure I want all the people who make jokes about Combat Rogue interfaces being a giant SS button to see a tagline like 'Combat Rogues Keep it Simple'. I also don't agree that our rotation now is the simplest it's ever been. The addition of RVS and BG alone make it more complicated than late-Wrath.
Combat is still a rotational dps model of course, but it has a reactive element to it which I personally prefer to Assassination. If anything it's a shame we're not seeing much need for Rupture anymore: switching finishers based on BG or BF status was engaging without being overly complex. The same could (indeed, can) be said for lining up KS (or AR) with BG as opposed to just popping Vendetta on cooldown or waiting to stack it up with Heroism / a burn phase.
I've nothing against Mut' and Combat is hardly a complex rotation. It does ask you to think on your feet and make small adjustments in a very fast-paced playstyle though. It's a different approach to the finesse of a Mut' rogue, carefully pooling energy and watching debuffs... but I'm not sure it's simpler.