Ready Check: How legendaries destroy PVE

By now, everyone is familiar with the bitter arguments that follow the release of any legendary weapon. There are always the petty squabbles over who should get it first, which class or spec gains the most benefit from it, even down so much as to who should be allowed to get the item at all. Beyond those things, there is always the riled-up PVP crowd. PVP doesn't offer itemization or choices to mirror or match legendary items by any means, and every legendary item has long been a must-have for any serious PVPer.
Basically, you have a legendary, you rock face without even questioning it; without one, well, you just better pray you end up matched on equal footing. Every legendary has done this, and each one has created a new controversy, yet no one ever gives any consideration to the opposing side of the game. Yes, legendaries come from PVE, and any raider can technically get one with dedication, but they have just as of an unbalancing impact on the raiding scene as they do the PVP-verse. This week, we'll be looking into those negative reactions.
Why legendary items are too important
Every raid encounter in the game is exactingly balanced, or at least it is attempted to be balanced, particularly those that are designed to be DPS checks. Baleroc is a great example of this type of encounter design; it has a tight enrage timer and few mechanical hiccups to dampen damage, and it boils down mostly to whether you can beat the enrage timer. Skill, of course, is a factor in all of this, as it always is. In fact, performing a rotation perfectly accounts for far more damage than most of what your raw gear contributes to. Brian Wood in Scattered Shots and myself in Shifting Perspectives have both showed how missing casts or cooldowns even by only fractions of seconds here and there can accrue to more DPS lost than is gained from gemming, glyphing, or talents. Skill is always the largest contributor to DPS, yet legendary items can throw a wrench in that balance.
Legendary items account for an absurd amount of damage potential, as is evident by the DPS trends we see on sites such as World of Logs. Take Dragonwrath as the leading example. In current raiding gear, getting the staff can be a gain of 10k to 20k DPS, depending upon skill, luck, and spec of the character who has it. Even at the smallest range, 10,000 DPS is rather astronomical. What's the general DPS average at this point in time, 25,000 to 35,000 DPS? Maybe slightly higher or slightly lower, depending upon the type of raiding that you're into. With an average gain of 15,000 DPS just from having a player with Dragonwrath in your raid, the entire system of balance starts toppling down.
Encounters such as Baleroc are balanced around tight measurements. When raids are shooting to nail world firsts or even server firsts or their own personal firsts, then they will usually try anything in an effort to meet whatever requirements they're lacking. If DPS is too low, then raids will try to drop a tank if they can get away with it, or they'll swap out a healer. Attempting to gain additional DPS by adding in more DPSers is a very common trick, and it is done because nothing else can supplement the gains that you see. Gaining enough gear in order to increase the raid's DPS high enough to replicate this would require weeks, possibly months of farming -- valuable time that first-seekers don't have. When having a legendary item can account for half or even a third of any additional DPS, it creates a system where players with these items are far more valuable than any other DPS.
The relative value of gear
Legendary items usually have little impact on the raid in which they are introduced. Dragonwrath didn't change how any guild progressed through Firelands, just as Val'anyr didn't really change how players progressed in Ulduar, nor did any of the other legendary items impact the way that players progressed in those dungeons. Generally, you have to complete those dungeons in order to get these items. Yet that isn't of any real importance, because legendary items aren't important in the tier you get them; they matter in the tier that comes after.
Val'anyr was nerfed because it proved to still be the most important healing weapon, especially to holy paladins, all the way into ICC, two raiding tiers after it was introduced. Dragonwrath is being nerfed for somewhat similar reasons as well; it too is going to be the best caster weapon in Dragon Soul, but as it stands in live, it could still remain viable all the way into the first raid of the next expansion. A weapon this powerful, or any item this powerful, merely has no business being in an MMO such as WoW.
Causing havoc in the top precentile
When Dragon Soul is released onto live realms, every top raiding guild in the world is going to be pushing to be the first to down any measure of content. Even those that might not snag any world firsts will still be seeking to claim their own server firsts, yet this race has already been artificially tampered with. Any guild that has the advantage of a single additional Dragonwrath in their raid is miles ahead of anyone else that is seeking to garner these achievements. It's a pure matter of balance. A DPSer with a Dragonwrath is easily worth at least a third, if not an entire half, more the value of any other DPSer you could possibly fathom. Mechanics of the encounter be damned -- their influence holds no relevance unless it is so extreme that it completely eliminates the viability of the class/spec of a player you have with Dragonwrath ... and then that would have to correlate to all other guilds not losing the same amount.
First achievements are neither a matter of talent nor skill. It's long been held that while the players in all the top guilds are generally "better" than your average Joe (in the sense that with the same spec and same gear, the high-end raider would be expected to pull higher numbers), but it has also been accepted that this is not the primary reason many of them get their first kills months ahead of the curve. Gear is one factor, though the truth is that time investment is more the factor of their success. Yet even now, that isn't going to be enough.

If a top guild thought that they could 100% without a doubt down a boss with their current gear, then they would merely extend their lockout and keep plugging away. Rarely is this done. More gear always helps; it always pushes the notch up a little higher, and that small little gain may be all that they need in order to get over that last little hump that they need.
Dragonwrath, however, is not a little hump of DPS. It's worth as much of it more than all the rest of a player's gear combined.
How this impacts the average raider
You might say, how is this an issue? There's some RNG in getting Dragonwrath, but all the top-end guilds should have the same number for the most part. You aren't in a top raiding guild pushing the edge of content, so why should this matter to you at all? First, we'll look at how time is meaningless.
While it is true that every guild has had the same relative drops for Dragonwrath and all of them should have the same number, that isn't going to be the case. Players quit the game; players quit guilds. How many people have been in a guild where you've given a legendary or some other hyper-important item to a player, suddenly to find that they've dropped you for greener pastures? Players who change guilds after getting such an item deal a massive blow to that guild, more so in the high-end scheme of things.
Picture (off the top of my head) Vodka against Ensidia. One of Ensidia's casters with Dragonwrath thinks he has a better chance snagging world firsts with Vodka, so he ditches the old, hooks up with the new. Not only does Vodka gain that 10k- to 20k-DPS asset to their raiding team, but Ensidia just lost 10k to 20k DPS, and they can't replace it, giving Vodka a huge advantage for pushing heroic modes faster than Ensidia.
Now imagine that you're not in one of these types of guilds. I'm not in one; we've only got a single staff in house right now, and we'll probably be lucky if we reach two before the next raid hits. If our raider with Dragonwrath left, that'd be worse than if it were one of the top-tier guilds in the world. Ensidia, maybe they can scout out someone else from another guild to replace that -- but if you aren't top dog on the server, then what chances do you have of recruiting someone with a legendary? What are your chances of someone with a legendary running off to play with the big boys? Every raid group is going to get one eventually, and losing it screws over the little guy far more than the mega-guilds.
Normal modes may not be balanced with Dragonwrath in mind, but heroics damn well have to be. How can Blizzard possibly balance content around a 20k to 40k variance? My guild only has one, maybe two, Dragonwraths -- so Dragon Soul heroics are just out of our league because the encounters have to be balanced for the hyper-raiding teams out there with four or five in their roster? There's no chance; it's not practical. Having two -- or heaven forbid, three -- more legendary staves in your raid than the other raiding groups is like gaining a free raider and a half or more. That allows you to bring additional healers yet still make enrage timers or just keep stacking DPS.
For as much as we love them, for as much joy, pride, and ego that they feed us, legendary items have no business being in this game. They cause nothing but imbalances in both PVP and PVE, and their existence needs to stop. We might all dream of having our very own orange one day, but until Blizzard can find a way to make these items unique without being so gamebreakingly overpowered, it needs to stop adding them, period.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Zayd Oct 23rd 2011 5:12PM
Yeah, I hate legendaries too.
Unless I had one of course, then I'd love the s*** out of them.
Luke Oct 23rd 2011 5:55PM
Pretty much what I was thinking. This is probably the most eloquent QQ I've read in a while.
Sharlatan Oct 23rd 2011 6:08PM
Rarely have a read an article I agree with so much.
But to be honest its not just legendaries, its the whole gear inflation.
We downed Rag, but it took us a while, but our kill was not due to lack of skill, it was due to us gearing up to the point where we could do it.
We'd had some issues last teir with raiders leaving and had finished below optimal gear level for the last teir, but ok, we'd downed all normals and were making good progress on hcs, but we were not fully hc geared.
When this Teir came out, we just could not compete with the better geared guilds, not through lack of skill, btu just because their gear handicap was greater.
I do wonder if world first guilds are not a self fullfilling prophecy. They only get world firsts as they start with an advantage.....
DragonFireKai Oct 23rd 2011 10:44PM
Gear inflation has nothing to do with the issue because gear is reset at regular intervals. As long as raids require you to be at max level to raid them then people will have a baseline minimum level of gear. Any raider who reaches level 85 has access to a set of gear superior to anything that a player could have put together in heroic ICC. Add in the VP and JP vendors with their per tier resets, and any player can become raid ready the week they hit level 85 if they're diligent about it.
The reason why Val'anyr and Dragonwrath are getting nerfs is because of the way their procs work. They scale off all stats, as opposed to other peices of gear which simply don't scale at all. Each time you upgrade a piece of gear, that proc shields for more, and hits for more. This is something that they've never done with any of the other legendarys.
This is one of the reasons why Blizzard has avoided making weapons with oddball procs, they always wind up getting broken. From Dragonwrath and Val'anyr's infinite scaling, to a blue drop from Scholomance briefly being BiS for Death Knights, to top tier guilds using a craftable blue level 60 axe to get past Bruttallus. Procs never work how they intend.
ffximordak Oct 23rd 2011 5:19PM
Shadowmourne had a good approach to it.
One, it was last tier and two, gear scaled incredibly fast when Cata hit.
Maybe DPS legionaries should be reserved for the last tier of an expansion?
Jason Oct 23rd 2011 7:02PM
I like this. Offering a tanking or healer legendary mid-expansion would give hard-working raiders/guilds the chance for stronger heals or more stability in damage mitigation/avoidance. It would still be a blow to lose a Legendary to a guild-jump or server-jump, but it wouldn't affect the bottom line as much. Instead of enabling groups to push an enrage timer faster, it would give the advantage of more security to a progressing group that has one. Maybe the end result would be the same - a tank "gaming" the fight because of a unique on-block proc, or a healer propping up bad dps with an on-cast proc - but I think the effect would be dampened by the fact that all dps still have to work as hard or harder, instead of being carried (to a degree) by an anomolous spike in damage provided by the magic of Orange Text.
Lemons Oct 23rd 2011 7:24PM
Yea that sounds fun....not. Listen to the WoW Insider show about four episodes back. They talked about this exact same thing and they basically concluded that end of expansion legendaries are the worst kind. You get to play with it for three months then you replace it with a green. What's legendary about that?
furrama Oct 23rd 2011 5:18PM
I disagree. Legendaries are flavor, and they are another step in competitiveness if you are in the higher end guilds. It gives them something to farm/do while waiting for the new raid, and encourages everyone to behave themselves if they want to stay together and on top.
Also, heroics are for the elite tier, and this new raid finder option is just proof of that. If you can't stand the heat, get away from the melting Deathwing. Go back a tier, play in the league you are most comfortable with, the one that's fun and on your personal cutting edge, not the one that makes you THE best. Around. (Nothing's gonna ever keep you down!)
Blizz knows that legendaries break things, but yet they keep them around. Because if everyone is special, no one is.
Kia Oct 23rd 2011 5:39PM
The only thing I hate about legendaries is the drama they cause, and how it's impossible to get one with the effort of a small group. I don't care if they're obscenely difficult to get, but you shouldn't need an entire raid to get them.
Our guild fell apart thanks to the bitch of a raid leader getting multiple rolls on the embers in the first phase, because her husband was an officer and he allowed himself to roll and pass the Ember to her if he won it--effectively locking out every other caster in the guild.
Then people got pissed, half of them left, the raid team fell apart, and we haven't been back in Firelands since--when Dragonwrath was half the reason we even re-sub'd after a long break. Fuck legendaries.
VSUReaper Oct 23rd 2011 6:20PM
Don't hate the pixels for what people did to you. To me, sounds like they would have done that over mounts, pets, or anything that they wanted for themselves.
That being said, Glaives are a perfect example of why we all hate legendaries and love them at the same time. Those Glaives were the only way some guilds could down Sunwell pre-nerf, and it was the only reason people STILL farm BT every week. They practically broke the DPS curve for a guild, but they were so damn good looking.
My issue with Taragosa is that you can't reasonably get one unless your in a 25 guild. We have 3 casters on the stage before they cash in on the orange pixels, but we can't push through the last part yet. Meanwhile, 25 man raids are spawning the translucent drake in Org almost every night: literally a new staff every night, and all of them are in 25 man guilds.
I say keep legendaries, but make it so that your chances of getting them are equal between 10 and 25. When a new tier launches, nerf them by a %.
Hal Oct 23rd 2011 6:36PM
Oh, I think the numbers of people who have been there, in some way or another, could be a testament to what a drag legendaries are in the end. It's odd how quickly your opinion of someone can change when "OMG legendary!" becomes a stumbling block.
Garwulf Oct 23rd 2011 7:50PM
Look here...you blame you LEADERS stupidity on the ITEM?...O.o I guess I feel lucky to have been the only 25 man raiding rogue in my guild for AWHILE!!...I"THINK" I have "tenure" and am looking foward to my own orange daggers!!
Spellotape Oct 23rd 2011 8:25PM
@ Garwulf
Your situation seems quite different. I read Kia's post and thought the leadership was extremely stupid for a) having people role on the component of a legendary, and in relation to that b) not picking one person at a time to complete it.
DragonFireKai Oct 23rd 2011 11:08PM
Kia, you're a liar. Well, either a liar, or a paranoid jerk who drove their guild apart on suspicions with no proof.
You can't trade eternal embers. Period. Once they're rolled out, they're completely stuck on the character who won them. You can't even transfer them through a GM ticket. No one can move an eternal ember from one player to another, so the scenario you're describing is 100% impossible.
Care to revise your story?
Luke Oct 24th 2011 12:30AM
@Dragonblahblahfail
You're assuming that roll means looted. By what Kia said it makes sense. The guild leader and her husband both rolled on the loot and then the husband passed on it, meaning it could then be assigned by a master looter to the guild leader.
Not too mention you're making some wild accusations regarding Kia's involvement with their guild breaking up. Assume much? I don't have to agree with her final assessment either, but that doesn't make her a liar, or the reason her guild split up.
Kia Oct 29th 2011 4:57PM
Aren't you a sweetie, Kai? Obviously the raid leader's husband rolled an extra time for her, then passed on the loot and assigned it to the raid leader. Hurr.
Lissanna Oct 23rd 2011 5:40PM
My more casual 25-man guild doesn't have a legendary put together yet because we lost the first two people who we assigned to get the drops from the raid. One of the two got a job and the other got so frustrated by the quest line along with other things going on in their life that they burned out and quit the game. The legendary also caused a person in my previous guild to burn out when we didn't finish his before Cataclysm came out. They are really demoralizing for guilds that progress more slowly through content and break the spirits of even the most dedicated casual raiders.
Eamara Oct 23rd 2011 5:44PM
If you look at things from a pure numbers stand point and only think about the hard core number crunching types, then yes, Legendaries are pretty horrible. But the fact is this type of player is such a tiny minority that really, Legendaries aren't catering to them.
At the end of the day, Legendaries are fun. They're fun for guilds to work towards and they spice the game up. They make it different, interesting. They make players stand out. They give us something to aspire towards, to work together as a guild and overcome the odds to create this exceptional weapon. Yes, we all hear about the QQ and drama each time a new legendary comes along. But that is exactly the same as the endless whine threads on the official forums: the very vocal minority. As an example, my guild had precisely zero drama when deciding who got Dragonwrath: we made the raiding team vote, they picked a candidate and a backup to get the second staff, and we were done. No fuss.
Yes, heroic modes are going to be a balance concern in Dragon Soul due to Dragonwrath (mostly the reason why it's getting nerfed in 4.3, I'd imagine). It is something to consider. But It isn't the only thing to consider. The fun factor is huge in something like a Legendary: be it the guild who bands together and works on that Legendary for months and finally gets an awesome weapon for their troubles; or the random guy who spots a Legendary wielder out of the corner of their eye, inspects, and goes 'woah... I want it!'.
Also, I don't believe we saw guilds stacking Val'anyr healers in WotLK, nor did Warglaives become a gigantic issue (I remember there being some Rogues QQing about how they're balanced around Warglaives or some such nonsense, but honestly Warglaives weren't necessary for Sunwell nor did Warglaive wielders trivialise the instance). I doubt Dragonwrath will be an issue in Cataclysm, and even if it is Blizzard can fix it.
Finally, sensationalist title much? ;) Though I suppose that's how you get the page count up!
Caylynn Oct 23rd 2011 6:07PM
We may not have see Val'anyr stacking in Wrath, but out of all the healers I know who earned Val'anyr, not one of them remained with the same guild (that helped them get the Legendary) after the completed it. Not one! Now, granted, this was a small, RP, EU server, but still.
Jr Oct 23rd 2011 5:44PM
I don't know where to begin. You're simply wrong, the game is balanced around the average not those that seek world firsts. They don't break the game. They need to keep adding these types off items to draw people to the rapids after facing 100 wipes.