Especially if they don't rethink the spells they leave us here. We can't have an instant Ring of Frost still, but other classes have instant mass roots, instant mass pulls, instant mass knockbacks, instant mass kilts or something? There will have to be major work done here, or mages *will* become the weakest class in the expansion.

I wouldn't change main but I would be slightly upset

These talents are doubly bad, because not only are they lame, but the current Cata trees feel so well designed and fun, to go from those 3 beautiful trees to... this. Ugh.

The other reason it's really bad is that Cold Snap, good god. If it really only affects those 3 spells, I can't see anyone ever taking that talent. That will affect pvp mages for sure, but in a bigger way, that is a pretty damn massive nerf to PvE frost mages for dps, not being able to reset the CD's on Icy Veins and Deep Freeze.

I have to admit I'm extremely biased against the new talent system. Pretty much every RPG I've ever played, you get some points to play around with every time you level. Whether it's adding base stats, talent trees, even if it is a "fake" choice like adding 1% crit or haste or something, it still feels like a choice.

I mean, goodness, you get more "talent" choices when you play the single player starcraft II game. Maybe I'd like this system better if it were every 5 levels, or 10 levels, instead of every 15, but... I'm just imagining leveling. Other than the number by your name, it's like you won't have any indication when you level up.

Seriously, I don't think I've read a column yet going over the talent speculation that hasn't claimed that everyone else's talents look more interesting.

We know. X class is totally hated by Blizzard compared to all those other shiny classes everyone else plays. Sigh.

@Andrew: For crying out loud, mages already have more of that, including instants, than any other class. They don't need it in the talent tree when it's baseline for the class.

I dunno Lyn - Druids and Warlocks seem to be pretty okay with their talents. I think a large problem with all of the talents is that it gives the illusion of being "new," when the overall skill set isn't changing all that much. The same thing is happening with mages.

This is just my opinion, but it goes to what I said up there before, 1 talent choice every 15 levels just feels like a regression in RPG game design. To be even more frank, I wouldn't be surprised if blizz completely scraps this system, especially because it most definitely won't scale properly in 6.0 (a point that others have made in other places, too).

I had a similar reaction to Old Man Franks when I read the talents last week. I have since warmed up a little and like Christian pointed out, many of these will change a few times before going live. My mage is not my main, but I played him more than any other toon this expac. Mostly, PvP and questing/grinding. Right now, I would say after I level my pally, I will probably be playing my hunter more in MoP. But who knows. It's a long time away, things will no doubt change and change again.

By the way, NO, Druids are most definitely NOT okay with the current talents.

The most interesting thing is how people are pretending they had a choice up until now. The days of creating hybrids form trees are long gone and the current talent trees while easier to select, effectively could be loaded from wowpopular directly. Take a look at your own tree - you really needed to select all those talents and end up with the option of placing around 6 or so points that did little to differentiate you from any other mage of the same spec.

Assuming most of our previous talented spells and abilities are woven into our base spec, then the new "trees" actually appear to give us a little more choice and sometimes force a difficult decision.

You also have to appreciate that these talents can be easily changed apparently, so I expect to see a lot of mages swapping talents for particular situations and to ensure a spread of abilities when multiple mages are in the same group.

So it's not the end of the world ;-)

"If these talent trees go live as-is, I will be changing mains. And I've played a Mage for years. It's disgusting how little creativity there is here compared to other classes."

Now that's just crazy talk! I'm no mage, but I've been a hunter for 7 evers. Blizzard could take their new talent system, completely wipe out the entire 6 tier talent tree and leave no customization beyond "which spec do I want to be, BM, Marks or Survival?" while allowing all the other classes delicious new talents and I would still not change my class. I love being a hunter. I would think you love being a mage, don't you? Don't start getting jealous of warlocks now! That's just not goodness.

By the way, the new spec system essentially gives you a bunch of spec-specific abilities like Explosive Shot & Black Arrow for Survival hunters or Fireball & Pyroblast for Fire mages. That's how picking a spec works in Mists. You pick your spec, you automatically get certain abilities that you need. Then the talents give you a few options to (hopefully/theoretically) make some meaningful choices. If Blizzard dropped the whole new talent options and went with just picking a spec then, uh, well it wouldn't actually be much different from talent specs right now. There's only about 2-4 points and 1-2 abilities that are actually CHOICES. The rest of it is "yes I want Chimera Shot" and "yes I do want Arcane Power." I know it SEEMS like less choice this way, but (if balanced right) it's actually MORE. (Then again, different specs might well have more choices than hunters. Maybe fire mages have more choice?)

Speaking of class specs: "Other than the number by your name, it's like you won't have any indication when you level up." Sure you do, Pyro! You get new abilities as you level plus new talents. You'll still get new spells, both passive and active, as you level in addition to the 6 levels of talents. Exactly how often is a good question that we just don't know yet. Personally, the illusion of "ooo, I get to put one talent point into getting 1% more crit, which has NO noticeable impact on my gameplay" is not at all compelling to me. This new system seems far more interesting.

Well, i dont know about you, but i see this tree as a direct nerf. Basically (as not frost) we are getting choices between our cornerstone abilities, without which we are useless in 1v1 pvp. I know blizz isnt balancing pvp around that, no need to scream at me. i will not play a mage in next expansion. Fire pvp is dead.

The last time I remember having actual interesting choices in mage talents was BC.

PoM+AP+Pyro was still around with options to go either deep arcane or deep fire. Elemental specs for pve and pvp, Deep arcane +IV frostbolt builds for pve...

Even then though, there were certain specs that were just better, and certain talents you 'had' to take depending on your tree.

This new system, to me, gives the greatest flexibility we've seen in the game yet. You get everything you have to have, don't have to waste points on mandatory talents (about the most boring thing you can do), and actually get to make some decisions.

I'd love a system where we had the size and scope of Wrath talent trees, with every point being a dynamic, exciting choice...but the balancing issues on that would be a nightmare.

I think they can get there eventually, but for now, this will be a great, easier to balance start.

Long story short, I'm really looking forward to this change.