Gold Capped: How to deal with AH stalkers

Camping and stalking are two different things, and I got an email from someone facing both asking for help.
I was wondering if you had any advice on discouraging less palatable AH competition? I'm speaking in particular about obsessive AH campers and their stalking tendencies.
I know it's pretty standard for competitors to add each other to their friends (or enemies) list in order to keep an eye on when they're around, but over this expansion I've encountered some behaviours which seem to be pushing the boundaries of what is and isn't OK. Earlier in the year I had one competitor follow me across Stormwind, then to Darnassus, then to the Exodar, and finally to Shattrath where I eventually logged because it was getting beyond creepy to cut a gem and then moments later see this guy targeting me and cutting the same thing.
I'm not an AH camper, but when I am on I'm happy to list/relist against the guys that are – this one following me now seems to be the dominant one on the server (or the most persistent), but I wanted to know if you had any advice on how to discourage this?
If you were to ask someone who believed in playing the AH camping game how they felt they were getting an advantage, they'd make it personal and say that they were winning because they intimidated their opponents or something. These people are bad and are making choices that stroke their ego while costing them money. Your best defense is to completely ignore them and be better than they are. While there's no achievement for making more gold per hour than a camper, achievement points are unspendable -- and gold isn't.
Losers, competition, and ego
Competition is all about ego and winning. There has to be a loser; however, the gold-making game is not all about competition. There are not many losers, and almost everyone competing for business is making money. The only way to see who "won" would be to compare how much money everyone made, and most auctioneers are bald-faced liars when it comes to how much gold they have.
Even though the AH is not a zero-sum PVP environment, having a competitive nature can be an asset on the Auction House, but only if you don't let it get out from under you. Spending any time personalizing your work to cost someone else is always going to make you less money than you'd make ignoring the competition and following the buyers (and the margins).
Fight back
The best way to compete with a competitive camper/stalker is to become a force of nature. As long as whatever you are crafting can be listed at a profit, have stock listed every single day. When the prices dip below that point, list at the lowest cost you're willing to sell it for. Undercut heavily with a lot of stock, if infrequently, forcing the campers to camp for little margin or move along to greener pastures.
If they stay and camp even though you're not letting them sell above a really low profit margin, you'll have a lot less crafting to do. As such, you can afford to invest time in starting up a new market. Knowing and using TradeSkillMaster can be of value here, because it will obliviously and obstinately post profitable items in your bag whether you're being stalked or not. This permits you to spend more time focusing on what you put into your bags.
All that said, the best way to frustrate the childish is to ignore them. Maybe not even a "/ignore", because closing a door on them is a way of saying "you've succeeded in annoying me." Literally don't ever interact with them; not even going as far as adding them to a /ignore list can cause all kinds of hysterical antics from stalkers. Never rising to any bait they put out for attention and basically ignoring them like a petulant, misbehaving toddler seems to activate a part of their personality that just keeps getting higher and higher pitched until they become ridiculous. Then take screenshots.
At all times, remember that any time you spend obsessing about someone obsessing about you is:
- Time (and thus profits) wasted
- Playing right into their hands
Take nothing for granted
Aside from the (very invigorating, I'm sure) emotional mini-game your competition is playing against their projection of you, they are probably also undercutting you by what they assume is a frustrating amount of 1 copper. Any time someone tries to play mind games, it's safe to assume you're smarter than them and using better tools. See what happens if you post a bait auction just below cost. If they're blindly undercutting without limits, they may go and list a bunch of inventory for less than it costs you to make it. At this point, feel free to buy them out on an alt and save that stock for the next demand spike.
Additionally, if this is the type of market that will support it, don't forget that you can compete on the buy side as well. You're likely more charismatic than your camper and might be able to convince farmers to cut you a volume deal on raw mats. If nothing else, they save the 5% AH fee, and every stack of mats you buy this way can't end up in your competitor's bag.
Your stalker might alternatively be farming all their own materials. People trying to transition from the sustenance activities of farming and dailies incorrectly assume that they need to have a "vicious" competitive edge to succeed in crafting. If this is the case, they will often be willing to undercut way below cost (because farmed mats are "free"), but will have a finite volume they can farm. Don't waste your time arguing economics with them; take their stock (on an alt) and move on.
I don't have a friends list -- I have an enemy list
Don't sweat it if your camping friend seems to know all your alts and shows up to "intimidate" you whenever you log in. It's easy to use a friends list, but very hard to use Auction House addons like TradeSkillMaster properly. Demonstrate your skill with an actually valuable tool when it comes to money making, and you'll come out way ahead. Also, remember that being on all the time may confer a slight advantage in terms of raw volume numbers, but by definition means that the camper has lost at life.
One of the few reasons to own a membership to the remote AH, considering the severe limits on the interface (compared to an in-game addon) and number of transactions, is that you can frequently check the Auction House for crafting mats. If you use it this way, you get two benefits: You can't be annoyed by someone when you're using the mobile AH, and your overall cost on materials should be lower, which allows you to undercut harder.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
(cutaia) Nov 3rd 2011 4:02PM
"Also, remember that being on all the time may confer a slight advantage in terms of raw volume numbers, but by definition means that the camper has lost at life."
OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH. BUUUUUURN, DOGG!
Camo Nov 3rd 2011 5:24PM
"[...] by definition means that the camper has lost at life. [...]"
Ahahahahaha. Yeah, right. All our fellow auctioneers that can afford a second account just for the AH, running Wow from work, through remote control or working from home have clearly lost at life.
My Wow runs for a good part of the day, I'm able to respond to TUJ mails through the remote control from everywhere and post once in a while.
When I'm at home I see your names pop up when you come online and guess what I'll do?
Oh, and I can undercut you while working because Wow sits on my second monitor.
Ballmung Nov 3rd 2011 7:14PM
@camo
You do realise you JUST admitted to having no life beyond making money on WoW? Congrats on whenever you hit gold cap. If you invest even a fraction of that time into actual work making real money you might have some real people to enjoy it with.
Dementron Nov 3rd 2011 7:20PM
@Camo
I think you just proved a point. I don't think it was the one you meant to prove though.
Eirik Nov 3rd 2011 7:52PM
"...but by definition means that the camper has lost at life."
Odd to see it put in win/lose terms. I would have expected something more like "... at a cost of having a life outside the game". After all, opportunity cost is what it's all about, right? How much time does it take to recycle your auctions. How much gold per hour of play. And so on.
If the game is all you have to look forward to in life, then no, you didn't "lose at life". Or perhaps, the game is not the cause of you "losing at life", but instead a symptom or side effect.
Camo Nov 3rd 2011 11:18PM
"You do realise you JUST admitted to having no life beyond making money on WoW?"
"I think you just proved a point. I don't think it was the one you meant to prove though."
Umm. I'm back after five hours of partying, so I think there might be something besides gold in Wow, although it's the main thing I enjoy in Wow, it doesn't mean there can't be something else outside of it.
Oh, of course I checked the AH while writing this, but Eirik put it pretty well. It's about the opportunity costs and they aren't high.
Heading to bed now because I have to see those people from the party later on work.
Good night.
Noselacri Nov 4th 2011 12:47AM
@Camo:
I hope you're in Europe...because going away for the afternoon or early evening on a Thursday isn't considered "partying for 5 hours".
Unless you were at a Chuck E. Cheese birthday party for your 12 year old cousin. With the attitude you displayed in your previous post I have a feeling you're the type to "roflstomp" the tweens at skiball and air hockey. Then shove all your tickets in their face so you can buy some bouncy balls, slinkies, and parachute army men.
Rob Nov 4th 2011 7:16AM
@camo whatever happened to you know 'working' at work?
Puntable Nov 4th 2011 10:02AM
I was at that party with Camo. It was epic. I posted so many shards I passed out!
lucifer.cross Nov 3rd 2011 4:06PM
Wow... I wasn't even aware of this as an issue. The fact that it is, apparently, becoming one is kinda ... Hmm. I want to say scary, but that doesn't quite hit the mark.
Scuac Nov 3rd 2011 6:56PM
I think the word you are looking for is "disturbing".
Luke Nov 4th 2011 4:12PM
I have to disagree with the statement "becoming an issue." I've been the person singled out by other Auctioneers for stalking and it's been an issue since just before Wrath Launched. My advice is take it as a compliment, keep doing what you're doing and ignore them. Eventually they will start sending you "hate mail", which is in and of itself hilarious. Keep ignoring them, eventually they will go away. And yes, this tactic is true for any bully, or obnoxious sibling...
xvkarbear Nov 3rd 2011 4:18PM
If you ever have someone stalking you like that..
pop into stockades. They can't follow you, and you can craft in peace.
Kurash Nov 3rd 2011 4:36PM
Or Ragefire Chasm, for those of us who'd get destroyed by guards in Stormwind. :)
Fadmin Nov 3rd 2011 4:23PM
I'm seeing increased competition in the gem market on one server last few weeks. A lot of new faces and lots of 1c undercutting. Seeing a Bold Inferno Ruby posted at 110g and then 5-6 undercuts taking the price down to 109g99s10c is a little crazy. there's usually 4-5 at each price point too.
I have the AH Remote and check as I can on work breaks - but my 4-5% undercuts are almost immediately undercut again. So, it's off to mats until this craziness ends - throwing out some auctions to keep the proverbial toe in the water.
However, it's not personal as far as i know - least on my end. ;-)
Fadmin Nov 3rd 2011 4:32PM
More interesting is the new faces are the same guild and one isn't a jewelcrafter. Market control much ;-)
Didax Nov 3rd 2011 4:43PM
The first step to deal with the 1c undercutters is to make deeper undercuts (as you've done).
If they continue to undercut, the next step is to list as much stock as you think will sell slightly above your cost.
-------------------------------------------
Incoming anecdotal example:
On my server, I can make an Inferno Ruby (ignoring transmute procs) for around 80 gold. Normally I list around 150. When undercutters show up, I'll fight them 5% at a time down to around 120g, at which point I just list a large amount of stock at 85g per.
Either legitimate buyers are ecstatic over a good deal and buy in bulk, or the undercutters buy them and try to relist them at a higher price.
As long as I have the stock to support it, I continue listing at low prices until the AH camper either loses interest or finds a different market.
Firestyle Nov 3rd 2011 4:56PM
If you undercut someone by one copper, I'm going to buy the more expensive one - mostly because you aren't undercutting low enough to make it worth my while and when I sell, that shit really pisses me off.
JattTheRogue Nov 3rd 2011 5:12PM
Why is undercutting by 1c so annoying to people? I would much rather see someone undercut me by 1c so that when I post my auction again the price stays up. In the gem market specifically you don't make money by undercutting by large amounts to have the lowest price; it's about being the lowest price (however high or low it is) when someone is looking for that particular cut. If someone undercuts you by 1c, that doesn't drive the price down and everyone, including you, can make more money. Since the gem market moves so quickly, if everyone undercut by 4-5% the price would drop very quickly. What I hate seeing is someone who drops the price by a substantial amount on a cut (say, 30 gold on a cut that sells for 60 or so), and then that's immediately undercut (which it normally will be). They didn't do anything to make their auction sell any more quickly, but they created a lower price floor that cuts into everyone's profits.
djsuursoo Nov 3rd 2011 5:15PM
didax's tactic is one i very much have enjoyed using, even if it occasionally causes a serious market crash in some sector(like when i accidentally drove inferno rubies below 20g/per... 'oops' was all i said as i started snapping up every ruby i could buy.)
playing aggressive and being willing to take the occasional soak is a good way to keep those folks under control.
alternatively, on my primary server, we have an epidemic of price-gouging. people will list leveling mats at ridiculously inflated prices, as though they were some kind of impossible to obtain item.
i have a merry time listing at, depending on my mood/the material, 45% of their gouge(just low enough to tempt them to buy me out), or about double the 'sane' price. if it's something that will in fact go for the higher value without too much trouble, i'll list to gouge them, as most of those guys will try to flip product/mats for profit. 45% is just enough to eat into their margin that i feel happy, while enticing them to buy my stuff.
it's a good feeling to move a few dozen stacks of something inside of an hour AND make a minor fortune while you're at it.
now, if you list at 45% of the gouge rate, you can have the alternate scenario develop: market crash.
this can happen when the young and the impatient try to game the system. they'll see one fella listing high. they say 'sweet i can make phat golds dewd!' and list at maybe 5% less. then someone else comes along, undercuts THEM for 5%, and walks away.
the crash: our young/impatient lister checks back in the AH(as both types will find it impossible to NOT peek every 15-30 minutes), wonder why their stuff hasn't sold, check the prices maybe, and then FREAK OUT, pullling all their auctions and re-listing for under the lowest price.
if you get three or four of these folks in a given market on the same day, rejoice! you can walk away with some fantastic bargains on goods.
this seems to happen most with materials, though sometimes crafted goods like gems will experience these crashes.
if you know your competition well enough and they're prone to bouts of stupid listings, you can trigger a crash with a little competitive bidding.
thankfully the in-game economy recovers pretty damn quickly.