Ready Check: Looking at raid accessibility
Ready Check helps you prepare yourself and your raid for the bosses that simply require killing. Check back with Ready Check each week for the latest pointers on killing adds, not standing in fire, and hoping for loot that won't drop. Questions, comments, or something you would like to see? Email me at tyler@wowinsider or message me on Twitter @murmursofadruid.
Last week, we brushed upon the topic of what the next expansion might hold for raiding. Specifically, the talk centered around the concept that raiding cannot be Blizzard's sole focus any more. As much effort as has been put into raiding, not every player is capable of getting involved with it. The argument was that Blizzard needed to focus on other content for max-level players aside from raiding and questioned what impact that would have on raiding overall.
First, at little bit of information. The blog Player vs. Auction House went off the norm and provided a little bit of numbers gleamed from WowProgress about T11 raiding before 4.2. While there is some interesting data as it relates to last week's topic, that isn't the focus I want to bring up. An argument was put forth that Cataclysm raiding is less accessible today than it previously was. I feel this is a great topic to delve right into this week.
Looking back to classic raiding
First things being first, let us look at the argument being put forth. The assertion is that although the numerical difficulty of raid encounters has decreased -- the DPS and healing requirements being easier now than they were in the past -- the mechanical difficulty of these encounters has increased. Because even the most basic raid encounters have a higher mechanical difficulty than previous bosses, this sets the bar extraordinarily high for new raiders. In past raids, players were capable of making far more mistakes; also, there were fewer mistakes to be made, and these mistakes were not as costly to the raid as a whole.
It's quite a bit to take in all at once, and sadly, there isn't a simpler way of bringing it up. We'll break it all down in parts and address each issue separately to compensate. To begin, we have to look at the foundation of the argument, that today's raid encounters are more mechanically complex than past raid encounters. Depending on how you look at things, your view on the matter could be relatively skewed one way or another.
Comparing any current encounter to one found in the original Molten Core is a pure disservice to this discussion. I don't mean that in the sense that it is rude; it is more that one must consider the limitations of the time. Players had far fewer tools, both via in-game skills and now common addons. Blizzard had far more technical limitations and was inexperienced in raid design. A large factor in the difficulty of the original Molten Core (and all of vanilla raiding) was more the massive amounts of farming involved to get the gear and items required to stand a chance at the encounters, more than the mechanics of the encounters themselves.
This is not to say that Blizzard did not create brilliantly complex encounters during classic. Indeed, once they had the experience of Molten Core and Blackwing Lair under their belt, the design team churned out a wide variety of highly complex encounters: C'thun, Skeram, Rajaxx, the original Venoxis, and then a vast number of encounter in Naxx. What is important to note is that Naxx was reused as the first raiding content of Wrath, and many of those encounters still stood the test of time.
The Karazhan complex
A popular comparison for this theory is to look at either the encounters or numbers from Karazhan and use those as a comparison tool against what we have seen thus far in Cataclysm. This is a rather flawed view, as the data provided by Karazhan does not provide a full picture. Karazhan was Blizzard's most successful attempt at making raiding more open to a broader playerbase, but it was never intended to have the ramifications that it did. Blizzard understood the accessibility problem long before The Burning Crusade. This is why it created Zul'Gurub and the Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj, the first attempts at getting more players involved in raiding.
Karazhan, however, was unique in many ways. By many standards, it is a widely popular instance, but one thing that players fail to realize is that Karazhan didn't fulfill the purpose that it had. Karazhan was meant to be an introduction into raiding, a springboard for players to take a leap off of into the rest of what there was to offer. Yet very few players actually managed to do this. If you were to compare the numbers of players who cleared all of Karazhan and then moved on to actually clear Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon, it would be significantly lower than the population of players who raid today. Many players never progressed beyond Karazhan, and fewer still were the players who continued what progression they did make. As you moved from Gruul's on to SSC, then TK and from there, Hyjal on to Black Temple, you saw a pattern of fewer and fewer players who managed to complete these raid instances.
While a large portion of this is attributed to the increasing difficulty of these encounters, part of that was also due to the raid structuring of the time. Nowadays (and even back in Wrath), raids are designed to become outdated as each successive raid is released. Back in vanilla and The Burning Crusade, you had to gear through each raid in order. A raiding guild could carry you through higher content, but a fresh group of players would have to raid starting all the way at Karazhan and move its way up. Now, you can gear primarily though 5-man content in order to be prepared to enter the highest tier of raiding.
Spanning into Cataclysm
The data isn't yet there to support Cataclysm raiding, and even once Dragon Soul is released, we still won't have an entirely accurate view. Blizzard has taken many great strides to reduce the difficulty of raiding content while still attempting to keep it challenging and engaging, especially for hardcore players. With the past nerfs made to Firelands in order to open the content up even further, the data that we could glean now would be vastly skewed in favor of the most recent content -- yet that in and of itself is half the point.
Raids have been more mechanically difficult than was in the past. This is absolutely true. While the problem is as great as one might think, it is the inevitable nature of the game. Players gain more abilities, more sophisticated addons are created, and the newest content has to reflect this. Yet despite it all, none of the mechanics that we see are anything that surprisingly new.
Alysrazor tornadoes? Heigan dancing. Omnotron? How many council-style fights have we had so far? One in Ulduar, Black Temple, Gruul's Lair, Naxx ... and that's just off the top of my head. Debuff juggling, add catching, AOEing, teleporting, no healing! We've run the gamut of what this game can throw at us. Encounters might be getting more complex, but players have the tools to deal with them. Complexity does not directly correlate to difficulty.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Last week, we brushed upon the topic of what the next expansion might hold for raiding. Specifically, the talk centered around the concept that raiding cannot be Blizzard's sole focus any more. As much effort as has been put into raiding, not every player is capable of getting involved with it. The argument was that Blizzard needed to focus on other content for max-level players aside from raiding and questioned what impact that would have on raiding overall.
First, at little bit of information. The blog Player vs. Auction House went off the norm and provided a little bit of numbers gleamed from WowProgress about T11 raiding before 4.2. While there is some interesting data as it relates to last week's topic, that isn't the focus I want to bring up. An argument was put forth that Cataclysm raiding is less accessible today than it previously was. I feel this is a great topic to delve right into this week.
Looking back to classic raiding
First things being first, let us look at the argument being put forth. The assertion is that although the numerical difficulty of raid encounters has decreased -- the DPS and healing requirements being easier now than they were in the past -- the mechanical difficulty of these encounters has increased. Because even the most basic raid encounters have a higher mechanical difficulty than previous bosses, this sets the bar extraordinarily high for new raiders. In past raids, players were capable of making far more mistakes; also, there were fewer mistakes to be made, and these mistakes were not as costly to the raid as a whole.
It's quite a bit to take in all at once, and sadly, there isn't a simpler way of bringing it up. We'll break it all down in parts and address each issue separately to compensate. To begin, we have to look at the foundation of the argument, that today's raid encounters are more mechanically complex than past raid encounters. Depending on how you look at things, your view on the matter could be relatively skewed one way or another.
Comparing any current encounter to one found in the original Molten Core is a pure disservice to this discussion. I don't mean that in the sense that it is rude; it is more that one must consider the limitations of the time. Players had far fewer tools, both via in-game skills and now common addons. Blizzard had far more technical limitations and was inexperienced in raid design. A large factor in the difficulty of the original Molten Core (and all of vanilla raiding) was more the massive amounts of farming involved to get the gear and items required to stand a chance at the encounters, more than the mechanics of the encounters themselves.
This is not to say that Blizzard did not create brilliantly complex encounters during classic. Indeed, once they had the experience of Molten Core and Blackwing Lair under their belt, the design team churned out a wide variety of highly complex encounters: C'thun, Skeram, Rajaxx, the original Venoxis, and then a vast number of encounter in Naxx. What is important to note is that Naxx was reused as the first raiding content of Wrath, and many of those encounters still stood the test of time.
The Karazhan complex
A popular comparison for this theory is to look at either the encounters or numbers from Karazhan and use those as a comparison tool against what we have seen thus far in Cataclysm. This is a rather flawed view, as the data provided by Karazhan does not provide a full picture. Karazhan was Blizzard's most successful attempt at making raiding more open to a broader playerbase, but it was never intended to have the ramifications that it did. Blizzard understood the accessibility problem long before The Burning Crusade. This is why it created Zul'Gurub and the Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj, the first attempts at getting more players involved in raiding.
Karazhan, however, was unique in many ways. By many standards, it is a widely popular instance, but one thing that players fail to realize is that Karazhan didn't fulfill the purpose that it had. Karazhan was meant to be an introduction into raiding, a springboard for players to take a leap off of into the rest of what there was to offer. Yet very few players actually managed to do this. If you were to compare the numbers of players who cleared all of Karazhan and then moved on to actually clear Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon, it would be significantly lower than the population of players who raid today. Many players never progressed beyond Karazhan, and fewer still were the players who continued what progression they did make. As you moved from Gruul's on to SSC, then TK and from there, Hyjal on to Black Temple, you saw a pattern of fewer and fewer players who managed to complete these raid instances.
While a large portion of this is attributed to the increasing difficulty of these encounters, part of that was also due to the raid structuring of the time. Nowadays (and even back in Wrath), raids are designed to become outdated as each successive raid is released. Back in vanilla and The Burning Crusade, you had to gear through each raid in order. A raiding guild could carry you through higher content, but a fresh group of players would have to raid starting all the way at Karazhan and move its way up. Now, you can gear primarily though 5-man content in order to be prepared to enter the highest tier of raiding.
Spanning into Cataclysm
The data isn't yet there to support Cataclysm raiding, and even once Dragon Soul is released, we still won't have an entirely accurate view. Blizzard has taken many great strides to reduce the difficulty of raiding content while still attempting to keep it challenging and engaging, especially for hardcore players. With the past nerfs made to Firelands in order to open the content up even further, the data that we could glean now would be vastly skewed in favor of the most recent content -- yet that in and of itself is half the point.
Raids have been more mechanically difficult than was in the past. This is absolutely true. While the problem is as great as one might think, it is the inevitable nature of the game. Players gain more abilities, more sophisticated addons are created, and the newest content has to reflect this. Yet despite it all, none of the mechanics that we see are anything that surprisingly new.
Alysrazor tornadoes? Heigan dancing. Omnotron? How many council-style fights have we had so far? One in Ulduar, Black Temple, Gruul's Lair, Naxx ... and that's just off the top of my head. Debuff juggling, add catching, AOEing, teleporting, no healing! We've run the gamut of what this game can throw at us. Encounters might be getting more complex, but players have the tools to deal with them. Complexity does not directly correlate to difficulty.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
srshupe Nov 4th 2011 8:39PM
IME, the players I saw that didn't advance beyond Kara, didn't do so because Kara was 10-man (easy to assemble) and everything after it progression-wise was 25-man (harder to assemble or be a part of, depending on faction and what time of day you're able to play).
murmaiderxx Nov 6th 2011 4:55PM
Not to mention attunement for progressing after Kara. I would say that was probably another part of the downfall for it. The difficulty in anything after Kara would be the lack of knowledge for the encounters. Those two things alone were defeating itself.
Rob Nov 5th 2011 10:11AM
My first guild ran Kara for a YEAR. Solid year. 6 hour raids. Horrible, epic fail. Why were they so bad? Well, the raids were poorly organized, so that a 25 man never got off the ground (plus the RL didn't want to do 25s). The poor organization turned into lackadaisical raids, that would take half hour breaks while the RL was smoking, trash clears would be so bad, by the time we got to the boss, the trash respawned. Finally around 1am-2am the raid would really get rolling, and we would churn through a few bosses. At one point we got up to netherspite at 3am, and I had to quite. RL and all that.
Anyway. When ZA came out, it was like 'great'. But that guild could not do ZA, it was not geared enough. Now, wrap your mind around this. Even after farming Kara for a freaking year they weren't geared enough. Since we didn't do Gruul/Mag we didnt get the rest of the tier pieces, and we didn't do much heroics, plus 2.3 didn't drop, so the badge rewards were only t4 level mostly. Anyway, if that experience is any indication, most guilds could do kara but that's about it. There was really nowhere to go beyond that, due to numbers and skill required.
My second guild, on the other hand, started fresh, and we blew through kara, quickly doing full clears in about 2-3 hours. (Oh, this was another big difference, the second guild actually read up on the fights and didn't mind wiping to figure it out; the first guild had the attitude of 'nope, we're not good enough for this). Anyway, we blew through T4 within a month, and the next few months we did T5 (this was when 2.3 hit so we could do those kara runs and get BT badge gear. T6 was right around the corner and we did MH in a month and spent another month or so on BT. At that point, wraith release was announced, and we know the big nerf was incoming. We got all the way up to Illidan and had a week to learn him before the great nerf. We didn't get there, the wind went out of our sails. After the nerf we quickly downed him plus all the other bosses that gave us trouble; Vashj, KT. I think we did get archi down though (that guy was really not that bad). Illidan back then was the absolute monster of raid bosses (appropriately), much like LK was extremely difficult for raiders to figure out.
Anyway. Cataclysm is another beast. I haven't done any raids in cata yet, due to time constraints and heroics being a royal pain in the ass. I think that pretty much killed my interest in doing end-game content, that the heroics were just so challenging. Now, I like challenge, i'm a hardcore gamer, but I don't like spending 2 hours in a freaking dungeon for which i'll get nearly nothing. Wraith was different, at least you'd get a ilvl200 epic at the end. Not here, nope. You'd have to run a single dungeon about 20 times to get a valor item (not 20 times in a week thanks to the valor cap, more like 3 weeks. So, the ability to get appropriate gear is really hit hard, its hard to get into FL when a single piece of FL gear would take you typically 3 weeks of really heavy heroic running.
In contrast, battlegrounds are pretty easy and straightforward, so alot of my guildies are turning BGs, including myself. I dont really like PVP but it's easy, so that's the main appeal for me. I just don't have time to run...7 heroics a week, plus 3 raids or whatever.
Stilhelm Nov 5th 2011 1:01PM
@Rob:
You don't need to be in full valor 378 gear to do Firelands. A couple weeks of heroics should have you in mostly 353/359 gear, and that is plenty to do Firelands. Our alts run regularly goes 6/7 post-nerf with most toons having 353/359 gear.
ObiChad Nov 5th 2011 2:27PM
Certainly the transition from 10 to 25 was part of what made things difficult, but I believe there were other factors in BC as well. Mag was a bit overtuned for its place in the raiding, Blizzard acknowledged this later and nerfed it. Past Gruul and Mag you had attunements (at least at first) so that certainly had an effect. And finally I think the bosses on average stepped up the difficultly level after Kara, though you certainly had easy bosses in each tier (Void Reaver, Lurker, etc.). At the time, other than a bit of badge gear, you had to gear up with the raid to get to the next raid. This was before the Wrath "only the recent tier is current content model." It has harder to overgear content and so later content was not done as much as early content.
It does raise the question of what a better raid model is. The Wrath/Cata model or the Vanilla/BC model.
busuan Nov 4th 2011 9:25PM
IMO, raid accessibility is not about gear level or encounter difficulty. Rather, it's about how much demanding an encounter is on the raid team's communication and collaboration, just as all other real people games. In an MMO, verbal (typed or spoken) communication is really the key, probably the only thing that matters, because one cannot rely on body gestures or facial expressions to communicate, if such ever existed. To work as a team, the leaders must effectively inform all members where, when, what and how.
It's obvious that the build-in communicating function: message by typing, although mostly accurate and simple, is inevitably delayed and thus hopelessly useless for a highly mobile encounter in which timing is everything.
Talking to each other is certainly more efficient. But it's equally obvious that few people are born as a motivation speaker or a team leader. Although we all can learn to do so, how many would really want to learn?
(What's that infamous dungeon vehicle fight in WoTLK again?)
Some raids and many heroics are much more accessible, not because the bosses are nerfed or players' gears are easy to get. Rather, they are so because the mechanics of their encounters are much more easier to explain, as well as to understand.
The current trend in Cataclysm raids is that boss fights are more and more complex and mobile, and less tolerant to mistakes. And I am afraid that such design has very much surpassed a regular folk's communication capability, or wiliness to communicate after a long, hard day at work.
Sainthubbins Nov 4th 2011 10:46PM
This is exactly right, at least in my opinion, particularly your last point. Throughout Wrath I was a regular raider, one of the leaders of a 10-man raid that made it through all the content in normal mode. I was willing to spend the time to organize a (albeit small) group of casual raiders, explain fights, and really concentrate and communicate for four hours twice a week.
Currently, in cata, I still have arguably enough time to raid the same as I did in Wrath, but I'm just no longer willing to deal with organization and wipes because of slight mistakes made by people. Of the four people who served as "raid leaders" in my group in Wrath, only one is still actively raiding, and he is no longer the leader. Though this is partially due to changing life circumstance, it is arguably more due to the increased amount of explaining we have to do in order to ensure our raid's success. As many complaints as there seemingly were about Wrath, it was the perfect raiding model for me as a college/graduate student.
Twill Nov 5th 2011 12:22AM
I agree completely.
Naxx was great because each boss had a unique ability that players had to learn. It was executed well, and thus was used twice.
The Cata raids however have 3-5 mechanics per boss. That's very do-able when you are prepared and know what to do, but it's still 3 to 5 times harder than Naxx. It gets even worse when the margin of error allowed is nill because suddenly "healing needs to be more fun" in that if you fuck up for 1 second everything goes to shit.
Sure, we may know how to do each mechanic on its own, but having to handle multiple at once with little room for error makes raids intensely more demanding and significantly less fun.
I'm sorry, but I want to be able to clear a raid within a month of starting it. I enjoy other aspects of the game and it's insane to expect 9 hours a week to slam my head into a wall trying to do regular encounters because I'm not in an elite guild. Blizzard needs to tune down regular fights so that it's easier. Hopefully that's what the raid finder does.
(And as for the super-elite hardcores, they won't quit if it's easier. The best of the best make money playing WoW so of course they won't stop. And if someone does quit because mechanics return to the days of Vanilla, I'm sure it's more of a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back thing.)
TLDR- Make raids like the safety dance. If I can learn the fight but my friends can't, at least I can solo it over 3 hours. WoW is a game, let me feel epic without needing an advanced raiding resume to be with the best-of-the-best and down content. ^_^
rayden54 Nov 5th 2011 1:02PM
Raid finder's just going to give Blizzard an excuse to make Normal modes even more INaccessible than they already are, and will just be a further nail in the coffin of PuGs.
Even worse, their unwillingness to expand it to 10-man is going to lock players like me out entirely. I CANNOT do 25-man raids. My computer simply cannot handle that many characters and spell effects at once. I'd gladly trade a longer queue for the ability to actually play the game.
ObiChad Nov 5th 2011 3:09PM
@rayden54
I do worry about this as well. They seems like they are using the LFR tool as an excuse to not make any changes to normal mode tuning. We'll see.
As to not being able to do 25s, I do wish they offered a 10s version of the LFR difficulty level, even if you couldn't use the tool to access it. (I completely understand why the tool will work much better with 25s.)
ikutcher Nov 6th 2011 6:46PM
I'm not part of an elite hardcore guild. I run what I consider a casual, relaxed 10 man guild raid that is currently 5/7H. We raid twice a week for 3-4 hours. Which is why I define us as casual.
Whenever I read these articles about raid difficulty, there's always a big following of people who support the Wrath days and how it's too hard now and they can't afford to spend the time/effort/whatever and it's really tiresome.
I'll be downvoted for sure, but all the people who complain are those who refuse to get stuck into the content and get their hands dirty. I for one want to feel like I've earned my epics, not have them handed to me because I hit a spell on my bar once every few seconds. Most of the complaints I see are people being unprepared to learn fights, understand mechanics and to give it a shot, and to that I say, if you're not prepared to do the hard yards, you don't deserve the reward.
It takes no more than 10 minutes to watch a boss video, it takes no more than 5 to read the dungeon journal (you don't even need to load a website anymore!), instead of posting here you could be researching a fight so that when you face it, it's not a complete shock.
Everything in this game is doable, but you need to take some initiative and some accountability and realise that it's up to you to put in the effort.
cmichaelcooper Nov 4th 2011 9:42PM
Part of me has to wonder if a large portion of players didn't progress beyond karazhan because it was genuinely one of the most fun experiences in burning crusade content. The mechanics were varied and interesting and just challenging enough to be difficult without being infuriating. The rest of the raids definitely did not upgrade the fun factor even as they were much more difficult to progress through. Personally I would still rather do karazhan than any other dungeon or raid.
"Run away little girl!"
Rolly Nov 4th 2011 10:39PM
"The mechanics were varied and interesting and just challenging enough to be difficult without being infuriating."
This right here is what I see as the problem, Blizzard got so infatuated with designing for for top end guilds they ignored the majority of their playerbase.
Sad part is Blizzard has no concept of moderation so I fully expect MOP to swing in the opposite direction too far.
Tone down the mechanics a notch and get rid of too much trash, that would be my design choice.
Blayze Nov 4th 2011 10:49PM
I don't think there is a "too far" in the opposite direction, especially after Blizzard managed to drive off a million customers in the space of what, half an expansion? The main draw of WoW has always been its accessibility--even when said accessibility was only really relative to Everquest.
Making MoP more Wrath than Wrath (so to speak) could only be a good thing. The only problem I can see is that many of those who left probably don't want to come back--too little too late, etc.
cmichaelcooper Nov 4th 2011 11:04PM
@rolly the trash of karazhan was also part of its strength. It was thematically appropriate to whichever wing it inhabited, and it required strategy and execution but it didn't chew up a ton of time.
@blayze I agree. I understand the desires of hardcore gamers to have content that only they can complete so that they can have bragging rights, but that era of wow might just have to over.
Jim Nov 5th 2011 1:46AM
Kara was truly amazing in its look and feel. The haunted castle full of ghosts and powerful entities... even now it's fun just to walk through the place. It just has so much flavor and character. Raid mechanics and difficulty levels be damned, it's still one of my favorite instances.
Every thing from the random book buffs to the encounters was just full of fun theming. Opera Event was just brilliant and would still be brilliant even if they revamped it and added some "hard mode" mechanics to it. It has that much flavor.
Rolly Nov 5th 2011 11:38AM
@Blayze
Sorry, my comments weren't clear enough. I was refering to what they did in Cata raids not Kara. Kara was difficult but not infuriating. It had the correct balance.
ObiChad Nov 5th 2011 2:31PM
It's also important to remember that once Kara dropped badges and new badge gear came out, running Kara became a decent source of gear upgrade for people. A slow trickle to be sure, but still something. Never underestimate people taking the easiest path they can for gear. I have no doubt some people were running it because they enjoyed the play, but I think there were a fair number of people running it just for easy access to badge gear.
Brock Nov 4th 2011 10:25PM
Well, the inaccessibility of Cata raiding killed my guild. Things fell quickly apart before the content was even nerfed. It's only now that we are building back up to start again. We are starting with T11 though, and doing fine now that we out gear it and it has been nerfed.
I hope that Pandaria brings other things to do at end level besides raids. It sucks to see good online friends go because there isnt' anything for them to do.
Blayze Nov 4th 2011 10:44PM
Same here; our guild nearly fell apart as well. People cancelled their subscriptions left, right and centre, and I nearly joined them. I don't feel welcome in Cataclysm content at all--it's the reason I haven't run a heroic since Firelands was released, and have only run one ZG and one ZA for the achievements from finishing them.