Drama Mamas: How to share choosing what to do in a duo
by Robin Torres 
Nov 7th 2011 at 9:00AM
Once upon a time, two shy people made a duo. They leveled happily ever after ... except one of the players always had to choose the activities. So are they both actually happy?
I am very very close friends with my guildmate, oh let's call him Sam :). We're a guild of two and have been playing together for roughly two and a half years. Ever since RealID came out, we've been getting closer -- I'm very much an altaholic and being able to talk even if I wasn't on my main server was a huge blessing for us. When Cataclysm came out, he rolled on all the different servers I play alts on, created vanity guilds for the two of us, and now we have over a score of pairs that we play exclusively with each other! Now, every single toon he created was his own idea. I'll admit I definitely encouraged him to sprawl out with me but I never once said "You should come play on x server now!" or bullied him in any way.
We're both incredibly shy and both very eager to please. He says he *always* wants to play with me, but I worry that I'm interrupting and annoying him if I ask him to stop what he's doing to come do something with me. Similarly, he admits that he feels he's bothering me if he asks me to come out and help him with something. So many nights we end up doing boring stuff alone because we're both too bashful to just ask.
I've gotten used to being the one piping up and asking if he'd be up for anything, the problem is that when I ask what he would like to do, he'll do anything to avoid giving me a straight answer! I'll start spitting out pairs or projects we have and he might eventually pick two or three that sound nice, but I'm left feeling guilty and that we're only doing things I enjoy doing. He's the sweetest, nicest guy I know, and it wouldn't be at all out of character for him to only agree to play with me to make me happy, but I want to make him happy, too! Maybe I'm being silly and should just be grateful to have such a wonderful friend, but I want to be sure that I'm not intruding on his free time and that we're doing things he genuinely enjoys (which happen to be things I genuinely enjoy as well!). We both work and he lives on the other side of the world, so for better or for worse there are a plenty of nights when we're left to pursue our own goals without the company of the other, so he does get nights off!
I guess my question is, is there any way I can be sure we're doing a fair share of things he wants to do? That is, is there any way I can make *him* pick from time to time? How do I let him know that I do sincerely enjoy spending time with him, even if we're just spending hours wiping while trying to two-man old content or just killing critters for the guild achievement or absolutely anything else he can think of? (Keep in mind that I have told him that nearly verbatim, but he still thinks that he's wasting my time with things he wants to do).
I know this isn't terribly dramatic, but our mutual lack of self-confidence has been plaguing us both all year long and maybe there's a simple solution that I'm just not seeing! I just want to make him happy and he just wants to make me happy and too often we just stall and neither of us are happy :(.
Thanks in advance for any help you might have!
Drama Mama Robin: Oh, you are so very lucky to be part of a devoted duo such as this. The rare times I have been able to properly duo in any MMO have been my favorite play sessions. But, I agree, if you feel like your duo-mate may be just trudging along to please you, it can suck the fun out of your playtime too.There are several reasons Sam may not be volunteering activities, including:
- He likes passive control. It really doesn't sound like he is like this, but some people like to control the situation by ostensibly putting others in the driver's seat. That way, it seems like they are doing a favor. Also, if something goes wrong, they can say, "It was your idea."
- He is trying to be easy going and flexible. In my opinion, the idea that not suggesting something is being flexible is a fallacy. For example, two people going out to lunch: "Where should we go?" "I'm flexible." "Yes, but give me one of your choices, so I don't have to be the only one coming up with ideas." True flexibility is participating in the lunch brainstorming session, but agreeing to someone else's idea rather than stubbornly refusing any suggestions but your own. Otherwise, you are being inflexible about helping to decide.
- He likes being submissive. He may enjoy the fact that you drive your play sessions. Perhaps he has to be in charge of things at work or has some other heavy responsibilities weighing him down. Letting you take the helm might relax him in a way nothing else can.
- He is insecure. He may be so terrified of even the slightest rejection that he doesn't want to suggest anything as a safeguard. Or he may think that he could lose his friendship with you if he suggests something you don't want to do. He's so shy, this could easily be the case.
If he balks at taking turns, then just let go of your guilt. He is choosing to do what you like and keeps coming back for more. So just assume he enjoys doing the same things you do and carry on.
Have fun and let us know what happens, please!
Drama Mama Lisa: Ick -- taking turns is so artificial, so "No, no, dear, I insist ..." Cut to the chase and make a brainstorming list instead. Don't get all formal and proper about it -- just chat it up: "Hey, I always think about doing X when I'm AFK eating dinner, so I decided to write myself a note to talk to you and try to think of all the things we want to try ..." You could do it once and consult it as necessary, or you could do it more casually every few nights: "Whatcha wanna do tonight? I was thinking X, Y, or Z, but I know you'd been thinking about A -- and what about that time you said you wanted B ..."Another approach you might try if you're concerned that he's still not speaking up for what he'd like is cobbling together a night based on something you already know is on his bucket list. "Hey, you busy? I was hoping we could X. That'd probably work out great, because I know you wanted to farm some Y, and we'll be right up in that area once we finish ..."
Sometimes (as Robin mentions), people just don't want to do the driving. I've had many a heart-to-heart explaining to my spouse that it's utterly soul-draining to be the one to decide what to cook for dinner every ... single ... night. It's not the act itself that's burdensome -- it's the responsibility for chasing down the details, day in and day out. You may need to come right out and explain to your friend that you'd like off the hook for setting the nightly agenda.
One thing, though: Don't expect the change to stick beyond the first night or two. Some backsliding is inevitable. This is a hard dynamic to change -- but trust me, it's a lesson your friend would do well to absorb now. Don't be afraid to be honest and set up your duo for the long haul!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Guilherme Furtado Nov 7th 2011 9:09AM
sounds like my relantionship...
Nopunin10did Nov 7th 2011 9:11AM
On a side note, do you think it would be a good idea to speak to an issue from the comment boards from last Drama Mamas?
Suddenly the place exploded with quite a bit of victim-blaming, and it might be worth addressing that.
I'm not sure exactly, but WoW Insider readers tend to have a bit more tact than what was displayed last week. Things got nasty, and I feel it would be good to recognize what was wrong about that.
Robin Torres Nov 7th 2011 12:42PM
Almost every week, a few people accuse the letter writer or the person the letter writer is talking about of lying or that info is being withheld.
But the accuracy of the letter is irrelevant. We take the letter at face value and give advice accordingly, because usually it helps a few people in similar situations.
Sometimes the lying accusation also blames the victim and this is unfortunate. But as long as it isn't full of mindless hate, I think it's important to see that the victim-blaming mindset is out there so we can guard against it.
Bellajtok Nov 7th 2011 9:16AM
I have a term for things like this: A "courtesy war". In a courtesy war, two people are both trying to be nice to each other. It sounds like you and your friend have gotten yourselves stuck in a courtesy war- so the best solution is to have fun with it!
When I find myself in a courtesy war with my friend, I usually have to tell her "I am doing this nice thing for you, and there's nothing you can do to stop me." You can do the same. It sounds to me like they really just feel awkward about being the one choosing what to do, and you have to make it abundantly clear that it would make you happy if they chose what to do.
Go ahead, have some fun! I love that you've got such an amazing duo going, and it'd be a shame if you guys didn't have the best time possible.
Daedalus Nov 7th 2011 9:34AM
Am I the only one who read that letter picturing the two overly polite chipmunks from the old Warner Brother's cartoon?
"After you!" "No, no, after you." "I insist, after you," "Age before beauty..."
Robin Torres Nov 7th 2011 12:49PM
Turns out they are gophers. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcZsi0nQOUU
Such a great cartoon.
Eliezer Nov 7th 2011 9:39AM
Two things are missing from this story.
1) Does this duo know each other at all in real life?
2) The author sounds like a woman, and her duo partner sounds like a man. Is there some kind of unresolved sexual tension at work?
Gendou Nov 7th 2011 9:49AM
I was wondering both of those things myself.
Kirkules Nov 7th 2011 9:52AM
Perhaps you missed 'lives on the other side of the world'
Gendou Nov 7th 2011 9:58AM
@Kirkules:
Didn't so much miss it as wonder if they had met IRL anyway.
I've known people who have flow from AU or NZ to US for guild meetups.
Kirkules Nov 7th 2011 10:07AM
@Gendou: True, and while reading I did have some of the same questions, but, for me personally, once I read that line I didn't have them any more.
Xantenise Nov 7th 2011 10:43AM
Even if they're of the opposite sex, that doesn't mean both of them are straight or even into each other. I don't think it would have anything to do with what's going on, either; I've been in the same situation myself. Though I'm not straight, my lady friend was straight and taken and I had no interest in her, but we had this situation anyway.
Nyarlathotep Nov 7th 2011 10:41AM
Just thought I'd throw this out there since I probably seem like one of those people that never makes a decision.
While I'm sure there are a lot of people that are just trying to be courteous or are afraid of making a choice (decisions are scary!), there are people like me who actually are just really happy with doing almost anything you suggest. Why? Cause we like doing all those things. If you weren't picking what to do, we'd be flipping a coin or rolling a die. Chaos works for us because we're easy to please and end up happy doing whatever it is we ended up doing.. as long as it's on our very large list of things we like doing. Because believe me, that list isn't "everything", it just might seem that way because you've never suggested doing something we don't want to do. Suggest doing arena and even tho I agree to almost anything else, I'll promptly tell you to f yourself and I won't sugar coat it either, that'll be my exact wording.
So, let your guilt go. If it looks like this is the sort of person you're dealing with, understand that you can stop feeling guilty because it's fine. If you don't make a choice, I promise that the choice they make will be a completely random decision or even literally a coin flip in the background. :P It's a good idea to check if someone is just insecure, but afterwards if it looks like they aren't, don't waste this great opportunity of flexibility.
Bellajtok Nov 7th 2011 1:37PM
^This. I have a super awesome friend who loves to watch me play WoW. She doesn't like to play, she doesn't understand what's happening, but no matter what I'm doing, even if I'm just flying around Org, she's interested and having fun. It took a while for her to get me to understand that, but once I do, we have a lot more fun. She's why I enjoy the Harrison Jones part of Uldum- we had so much fun mocking Commander Schnottz and his "NINE! NINE! NINE!".
The lesson: your friend may just enjoy going along with what you're doing. Just go with the flow, and make sure you're paying attention to what they might want to do- don't quit doing something just because you're bored, because they might still be having fun.
Gendou Nov 7th 2011 9:56AM
My wife and I don't typically duo because while she likes to take her time and explore everything about a zone, I'm generally on my fifth alt through the area and just want to get done. So I'm rushing and she's meandering and we tend to get frustrated with the pace the other is setting.
That's generally been the case when duoing with just about anyone, in face. I just quest better on my own.
The exception was a guildmate who was often up at the same time as I was (early AM) and who was often doing dailies at the same time as I was. We worked well together (she plays a hunter, I play a shadow priest), got along well, and spent several months logging on every morning to do dailies and achievements together. We even started leveling a couple of our lowbie alts together, going from 20-ish to Outland together.
Eventually her work schedule changed and we stopped doing dailies and leveling with one another, but we had a lot of fun during the time we spent together. Part of it was that we worked at a similar pace. The other part was that we had compatible goals in playing the game (complete dailies, complete achievements, complete leveling zone), which helped immensely.
Having a compatible pace is vital to working together. But so are compatible goals.
So why not find a compatible goal so you don't have to 'take turns' doing things?
Den Nov 7th 2011 10:04AM
It's nice to see more upbeat articles like this! And I gotta throw in with Lisa on this one: make a list! I've done that in the past and it worked out great. "Man, this is harsh. Let's get something from the list!"
Cheb Nov 7th 2011 10:14AM
I really like the list idea. It's a good way to put down what you both want to do, and then you have a list of objectives to work towards and you don't spend a lot of time going back and forth about what to do or doing something you think the other person wants to do.
The Dewd Nov 7th 2011 10:39AM
This letter reminds me a lot of my mother (and to an lesser extent, myself). Whenever dad would ask "where do you want to go out to eat", mom would, inevitably reply with "I don't care, wherever you want to go." I think my mother is, honestly, just that passive. It's not that she doesn't care but she doesn't want to ruin anyone's experience by suggesting somewhere that they didn't want to go. And she knows that no one is going to suggest somewhere that she doesn't like. (My mother always puts everyone else first - annoyingly so sometimes.)
Honestly, if "Sam" never wants to choose what to do there's an obvious solution to this, as far as I can tell. Make Sam pick the server (since you have 2-man guilds all over the place) and you pick the activity. If that's too much to ask of "Sam", then get creative in other ways. I like the idea of eat of you making a list and picking items off one list and then the other. If *that* won't work then tell Sam to find a die from a board game and produce a list of 6 or 10 items (whatever count the die is) and decide what to do based on his roll of the die. He's not making the decision but he's at least rolling the die and contributing in some way.
Xantenise Nov 7th 2011 10:41AM
I used to be in this exact situation. I played with a friend of mine for hours every day for about a year, and I always chose what to do, especially towards the end. A few times at first she made a suggestion, but when I started getting to a stage where I really didn't want to play a particular alt it dropped off. We had quite a few pairs we could work on, some characters to RP, dungeons to hit and dailies to do... but she stopped choosing, and I always had to. I often said "You decide!" or "I'm tired of choosing, I always choose" but it went nowhere. If I wasn't the one to decide, we did nothing.
I eventually got really tired of it and refused to choose as well, thinking that maybe she'd be forced into deciding. I'd go, "Do you feel like X or Y?" and she'd hmm and think and... never give me a straight answer. She'd try to get me to answer for her (and admitted to this), but I had enough and just stopped. It wasn't that she didn't want to play with me; she'd still log on for the same time every day, she just didn't do anything when she did this time. (And so did I, until I started logging on less because I didn't like the time that was going down the drain.)
For about a month we barely played with each other at all once I'd stopped choosing for her, and the only times we did was when I got fed up and chose anyway. Eventually RL tore me away from the game and we don't play together at all anymore. I don't think we will again 'cause RL is only going to get busier. I think she was insecure; she was a very timid person and rarely, if ever, spoke up. The only time she spoke up was in my defence when I was very upset, and even then she did it in a joking manner that felt more mocking because she was so desperate to avoid conflict.
I don't know what to do, but just don't do what I did! It doesn't work.
Nadia Nov 7th 2011 12:23PM
The "Bucket List" idea is great for indecisive folks.
I think maybe sometimes the LW could also roll a die or flip a coin or throw a dart, and tell her friend that's how she came up with the idea of what to do.
That takes the burden off both of them on making the decision.