Officers' Quarters: In the wake of drama, tragedy

Drama happens in guilds. As officers, we do everything we can to avoid it. Sometimes we make mistakes that set us up for it. At other times, it's simply inevitable. Much of it is stupid and pointless. However, nothing puts it all in perspective like a sudden, shared tragedy. This week, a guild leader wonders how he can deal with this terrible circumstance in the aftermath of a guild-shattering argument.
Scott,
I have a really difficult problem that I would like your advice, or at least your opinion. This problem is two fold and I will start with the short but serious series of events that have transpired the last few days. I (basically) started the guild a week before Cataclysm. We took off quick and became extremely successful. One of the first guilds to hit 25 on the server (which made me a really proud guild leader).
Early in the guilds history, we had a member join our guild, lets call him Eddie. Eddie has an abrasive personality and he tends to insult people. The thing is, hes not and never is being serious. He jokes and unless you spend more than 5 minutes talking to him, you just assume he's insulting you, which he's not. Well Eddie, being new to the guild (that had relatively little officers), hit the ground running and showed qualities of a true leader. He built our raid team, geared people, taught people, and did his job in a way that I've not seen done even as I raided through Wrath. Eddie however joined the military and had to leave for Basic Training. When he left, it was agreed upon that the raid leader spot would be temporarily given to another officer and would be given back when Eddie returned.
Hi, Phobituary. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss. It's never an easy thing to handle in an online setting, and in this case it's doubly difficult given all the recent drama. However, I think that you should try to put together a memorial ceremony for this player, regardless.When Eddie was gone, we progressed pretty far and the Interim Raid leader was slowly getting the hang of it. During this time also, our 10 man team slowly lost and gained members and before long we had almost an entirely new set of people.When Eddie came back, problems arose quickly. People who were new to the guild since Eddie went to basic weren't sure what to make of his personality which they considered too rash. After seeing how people reacted to his return, I decided to go out of my normal principles and I told Eddie I wanted to do a trial to let people get used to him before introducing them to a leader they've never met and who's never done Firelands. The trial would be just to start a 2nd raid team, and once it was up an running and progressing (so he could learn the fights a bit better too), he would be returned to Raid Leader.
This was discussed to the interim and would not be a problem. However, one member in particular didnt like Eddie's abrasive attitude and constantly complained about what he would say. She once said "I just feel bad for him as he embarrasses himself". I explained that if she ever seen him breaking a rule and could screenshot it, I would take care of it, but simply not liking someone was not reason enough. This continued and even though Eddie hadn't broken a rule, I felt he could present himself in a better way and I told him privately that he needed to watch how he acts if he wants peoples respect. He apologized and he seemed to really even out after that. Although he still angered her again later and she quit anyway.
So yesterday, everything hit the fan. I got attacked by one of the guild members (an officer no less) because they felt that Eddie didn't deserve to be raid leader when he gets done with the raid team. I tried to explain why and he ignored anything I said and just kept praising the interim. While I'm trying to calm him, I have another member in guild spamming "Earn your spot", referring directly to Eddie. I'm trying to keep the peace while also holding my ground and eventually the first guild member who attacked me quit. Then the second started flaming Eddie and I had enough and kicked him. Then another officer quit, and slowly my raid team quit. Of my 10 man team only three of the 8 left who left, left on good terms. Which left me with only one member who didn't leave my guild who was on our 10 man team.
Well last night I got a text from the interim (who left) saying the one who hadn't left hadn't been on in 5 days and missed raid last week, and he thought he may know why. We found out today for certain, and the reason was because he died 5 days ago while playing a game he loved. He was a great member and would have never given into drama like this. He will be truely missed and everyone who knew him is just starting to grieve. It is for that reason that I want to have a funeral or similar function in game to allow those who knew him to pay their respects to a man they never met in real life, but loved none the less. The problem I now face, is how do I do so in a way that doesn't let drama ensue when you consider that most of the people that knew him are now separated into two different guilds who are basically opposites. How can I honor him, without disrespecting what should be a group grieving process.
Signed,Phobituary
Tragedy transcends drama
Something like this goes so far beyond the petty bickering of online life. It puts into perspective how small a problem like choosing a raid leader really is. If people don't realize that, it's their problem, not yours.
My suggestion would be to go ahead with whatever you feel is appropriate and invite everyone who knew him. Include all those from the splinter guild, whether they left on good terms or not.
However, you need safeguards that the event won't degenerate into another drama outbreak. Hold the actual ceremony in raid chat or on your own voice chat server. That way, you can control the proceedings. If anyone starts to act inappropriately, you can just kick them from the raid or chat server.
Holding it in a more private setting will also prevent general server population trolling. People have a habit of announcing and holding these things publicly. While doing so can certainly result in a bigger turnout, it can also lead to some truly horrific outcomes.
An unfortunate promise
I know this is nowhere near your top priority right now, but as for the raid leader situation, it's not likely to be salvaged at this point. Things simply went too far, too fast.
In the future, I'd recommend not making promises to players who are leaving for extended periods of time. Guild leaders should always be wary of making promises that they may not be able to deliver on. The big one is when guild leaders hand the guild over to someone else, and that person promises to hand the guild back when the original leader returns.
Many times, they regret the promise either because they don't want to step down or because the guild has changed so much in the meantime that the returning leader is no longer the best person to lead. A returning raid leader puts everyone in a similar situation. As you've seen, guild cultures can change quite rapidly when there is high turnover.
Rather than making a promise, it's always better simply to say, "We'll evaluate what's best for the guild when you come back." In this case I think the raid leader issue was forced on a guild that wasn't ready for it. The "earn your spot" trolling was completely childish and unnecessary, but ultimately that player had a point.
When you're gone for a long time like that, regardless of the cause, you need to get up to speed both in terms of gear and experience in the zone. Due to Eddie's previous efforts, he certainly should have been given a chance to raid with the guild and build himself back up to a player who could lead raids.
Even so, setting him up as the future raid leader immediately after his return was not the right time. It was also somewhat disrespectful to the interim raid leader who had so much success to begin replacement talks right away.
Granted, your raiders certainly did not respond to the situation with anything approaching maturity or understanding. That's the other half of the problem here. Members of our military deserve support and patience when their duties get in the way of their guild responsibilities.
At this point, you essentially have two choices: You can rebuild, or you can walk away. I don't envy you either situation.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
blazenor Nov 7th 2011 5:05PM
From my understanding the raiders were new and never known Eddie and about the deal that was made. The guild members had a right to be upset if that information was not told to them and he should have never been made raid leader to new raiders, now if the original raiders were still there it might have work.
Therinor Nov 7th 2011 5:18PM
OK, thats kinda how I understand it, that they didnt know. Yes, they are the new guys and you could say "Hey, I made this deal before you even came in", but then again, they have become members of the guild now and members of the raiding team, and I think it would have been only fair to TELL them about the deal, as IMO they did deserve to know that.
JattTheRogue Nov 7th 2011 5:33PM
"This was discussed to the interim and would not be a problem."
The interim leader did know about Eddie and that when he returned he would take over again. That in itself makes the interim leader's actions even more immature, as those were the terms he had agreed to when he took over as leader.
"So yesterday, everything hit the fan. I got attacked by one of the guild members (an officer no less) because they felt that Eddie didn't deserve to be raid leader when he gets done with the raid team. I tried to explain why and he ignored anything I said and just kept praising the interim."
The other raiders may not have known originally that Eddie would be taking over again if they were new, but it sounds like once the issue came up the writer attempted to explain the arrangement but the people complaining wouldn't hear anything about it. Regardless of whether they knew or not, they still acted very childishly and in a way that almost assured it would end badly and that no decision that everyone could be happy with would be reached.
Phobituary Nov 7th 2011 5:58PM
Therinor,
Both the interim and the raiders knew. Some were actually told that their position in the raid was conditional until Eddie's return. At least 3 weeks before the major blow up, they were told that eventually Eddie would come back. This was told to them when people in the raid had been disrespecting officers, and I had a meeting to discuss the issues with people's attitudes towards other raiders.
Killik Nov 7th 2011 7:20PM
Sounds like this guild has a recruitment issue; no current members had been there long enough to remember 'Eddie'; the raiders don't recognise the officers as having authority; only show loyalty to their immediate raid team.
Either the guild is only recruiting unpleasant people or there is a problem with management failing to get raiders to feel invested in the guild.
Twill Nov 7th 2011 2:23PM
"Of my 10 man team only three of the 8 left who left, left on good terms. Which left me..."
um what?
Imnick Nov 7th 2011 2:39PM
Eight people left, five of them left whilst angry and deeply unhappy, the remaining three left on somewhat better terms (but still left)
Cambro Nov 7th 2011 2:49PM
I think he means:
10 man team
8 people gquit (3 on good terms, 5 on bad terms)
2 people remained: him, and the guildie who had not logged on in several days, apparently because he passed away.
Twill Nov 7th 2011 2:49PM
lol thanks.
English can be so confusing sometimes!
And sorry for all the hardship Mr. Guild Leader
Fathertouk Nov 7th 2011 2:54PM
He had a 10man team, and lost 8 people. Of those 8, only 3 left on good terms.
Mortenebra Nov 7th 2011 2:55PM
The OP's saying eight people left but only three of them left on actual good terms, meaning the OP hasn't outright blacklisted them on the basis of their leaving.
My guild has a simple rule as far as leaving our ranks is concerned: Don't be a dick. It's actually our number one rule. If you leave sans drama and with a courteous notification (much like a two-week's notice if you're in the workplace), you're far more likely to be kept on the friends list or, at least, not ignored immediately if you tried whispering someone in the guild.
I imagine that's what the OP is referring to when he said three of them left on good terms. On the bright side, it's better than none, right? These are people you can still run stuff with even though they're no longer in the guild.
Mortenebra Nov 7th 2011 2:56PM
Hah... that'll teach me to hit refresh before posting. /facepalm
The more you know! :D
/hides in corner from embarrassment
Twill Nov 7th 2011 4:38PM
Anyone else enjoy that we actually took part in using the English language properly on the internet? It always excites me to know that people still know how to write properly.
I can has +1 internets?
Totemer Nov 7th 2011 2:33PM
In my guild we had an issue kinda like the leave of absents here. In wrath the guild had a good shaman healer who left just before cata came out. After my raid group geared a suitable replacement we moved up the the cata raids. BoT and such. Then about the time when we were going to start firelands the shaman healer came back to the game (after nearly 7 or 8 monthes away) and thought we were gonna drop our now epic healer which we had to help spec and gear. Not to mention learn to trust. We didnt out right refuse but just suggested to play some content get a feel for it and gear up for a possible reentry. Not good enough. She quit the guild and we just left it at that. Anyone who asked questions were simply told that she refused to gear and spec to required standards. For us it was pushed past rather fast. Most members including aspiring raiders felt it was ok the way it was handled
Hargood Nov 7th 2011 2:32PM
Actually, It looks like there is more to "Eddie" that is being given. I've known insulting guys in WoW that are just playing around,...However I know them well and they can do that too me. So many people feel that "Being a jerk Weeds out the Bads" making a good raid group. The Real fact is that being so fimilar and trusting to someone that they can say anything they want to to the group makes a good Raid group. So many Raiders try to "be Insulting" while skipping that " Fimilar and Trusting" part.
Truth is, just like anything in real life: You can be the Smartest person at your craft, Hold things together and keep it going, but if you are Horrible to work with it's not worth squat.
ikutcher Nov 7th 2011 6:23PM
This.
The raid team that I lead is full of people taking the piss out of everyone else, it's not because we hate each other, but rather that we're so comfortably familiar with each other that we can tease and taunt each other and still be successful. Now at 5/7H we're doing well, having a blast and still telling each other how bad they are.
I couldn't have fun raiding without the smack talk.
Wiedmaier Nov 7th 2011 2:41PM
Interim, by it's very definition means temporary. If the interim raid leader knew he was interim, then his role should have been in supporting his replacement and preparing his raiders for the change. It is in no way disrespectful to say to someone who agreed to a temporary position that their position has come to an end. If he was successful and wanted to remain the raid leader, that should have been a private discussion instead of a public power grab.
While I agree you shouldn't make promises like this, the interim raid leader's behavior is inexcusable.
Lipstick Nov 7th 2011 3:21PM
Maybe not the best place to do this, but I have a question and just want to see if the readers have any advice.
So in the last few months my guild tried to bridge from a 10 HM guild to a 25 HM guild without success. We were never able to get a roster going which was greater than 20 people, and frequently less than that. Only one raid night in a 2 month process had us with 25 raiders, and the next night 10 people didn't show up. Some people in the guild were putting in a lot of effort to build the roster and progress through content despite these setbacks but others were treating it more like a casual/social guild. Guild meetings were held in which everyone agreed they wanted to do HM"s, but nothing changed.
At a certain point the guild leader announced that we would be dropping the roster down to a 10 man HM roster again, and those without the ability to commit the time and energy to these pursuits would be cut. From those cuts/people choosing to leave preemptively to avoid being cut two guilds formed. Before the split during our last raid week we agreed to try to stay on positive terms. Lately however that other group has been actively campaigning against the original guild/10 man group to leach our members to their newly formed guild. People that I had considered friends are not speaking to me, and are otherwise acting hurt/angry/hostile towards me for staying in my current guild.
I don't think the split happened 100% the best way and a few people were cut that I didn't want to be cut, and had begged the guild leader to keep, but now that the dust has settled a bit I can see the wisdom in my guild leader choosing to cut those people.
My problem is kind of two fold.
1) My feelings are hurt, and I find myself getting really angry upset towards some of these people who use to be friends who no longer talk to me, and have actually demanded that if I am so upset about them being cut that I /gquit to teach the GM a lesson. I personally feel that action would be childish, and doesn't accomplish anything. How can I let go of these feelings of hurt?
2) The guild we are left with was only 11 players for a 10 man roster, 1 person gquit last night bringing us down to 10, and one person took a break last week during the hiatus and we are not 100% sure will be returning. This is spreading a lot of anxiety to the rest of the group. We need to recruit new members but we don't have a website set up to do this yet.
3) Some of the people in the guild at present don't seem to like or feel happy with the performance of a few people who are on our roster. The loot system has been everyone voting on each item for each person and as a result a clique of players has been voting as a block... our guild leader wants everyone to be more involved with the process of refining our new rules, but only a few people are actively participating in this process.
4) My guild feels like a house of cards at present and I don't know how to combat the in-guild pressure, with the pressure being exerted by the other group. Despite all of this we managed to go 3/7 HM last week and were 7% away from being 4/7 HM last week with our 10s group (before this other member left).
Should I just wait for this situation to blow over, or should I start dusting off my raiding resume to other severs (as my current server doesn't offer me any real potential to raid elsewhere)?
Josh Nov 7th 2011 3:28PM
"Interim, by it's very definition means temporary"
Tell that to Bud Selig
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/bud_selig_biography.shtml
Pyromelter Nov 7th 2011 3:41PM
regarding 1:
They are being passive aggressive towards you, and that is an extremely negative, hurtful, and underhanded thing they are saying. Often times passive aggressiveness makes you feel worse, because it puts all the bad feelings on YOU, while making out the aggressor to be a saint. This is opposed to an outright blunt jerk, where you know he is being an ass. Passive-aggressive behavior is an absolute no-no, and should be taken as them showing their lack of character more than anything.
regarding 2:
Unless it is a key healer or your MT, you should be able to find a suitable replacement on your server through public channels. Just make a very detailed macro on what you are looking for in terms of gear and experience and expectations. (I have personally been on both sides of that coin)
regarding 3:
I'm guessing that was for the 25 man? Because in a 10man, loot systems shouldn't really be an issue. Most of the time it will only be 2 or 3 people who can even use an item. If you are clearing a raid pretty easily, a /roll system with a "1 main, 1 off, unlimited greed" system usually works well assuming people are being humans and not complete dillholes. Loot gets infinitely more complicated in 25man, and that's where you need DKP, EPGP, SK, etc.
Regarding 4:
I will answer this with a question: When you went 3/7 HM, was it fun? Did you enjoy playing with that team? If the answer is yes, then stick with it! If the answer is no, then I'd probably move on. And, I would base your answer solely on YOUR feelings, not how you think other people felt about the raid. If you had fun personally, yourself, stick with it and continue on. I think you will find that will be your best option.