I disagree.

I think everyone who quit was in the right, and Eddie should never have been given a leadership role to begin with, yet alone had it given back to him later.

Abrasive personalities never make good leaders, period.

If you can't watch your manners, you can't manage people in a way that encourages them to grow and bond as a team.

A leader needs to set a good example, not a low-bar.

As for the second issue in this post, the funeral; anyone who can't set aside grievances for something RL like that, has serious issues. I would not even worry about it - as its not reasonable for anyone to use a funeral as a stage for acting out. Its not even sane for them to do so.

That said, in-game funerals for RL members of the WoW community have in past been hotspots for griefing... so I would be very wary of meeting in WoW to do this. Frankly, I'd suggest everyone just discuss on Facebook / MySpace, or if you wanted 3D avatars to move around and talk; use Second Life.

- WoW has a lot of people of questionable morality / sanity, and they would be unable to resist attacking and harassing people coming together for a RL memorial.

"Abrasive personalities never make good leaders, period."

Really? Gen. Douglas MacAurthur, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in WWII would like to have a word with you. :-)

Can't possibly disagree anymore. The GL made a huge mistake. His members tried to voice their concerns about having an asshole foisted upon them, and were ignored.

They did not accept the replacement. Nor would I have.

The fact that drama erupted in guild chat over the event is background noise, disregard that. it's what happens when people accidentally fail to repress their true feelings.

@ Jyotai

It wasn't given back to him - he was leading a second raid. The person who took over his raid leading duties was stated to not have a problem with this - obviously "Eddie" didn't, either.

Raid leaders, in particularly ones who actually want to be raid leaders, are in pretty short supply. If you're in a guild you should get to know people, not take them at the worst things they say - this story feels like the people who left and the new RL could have done more to get to know each other. I'm guessing the precious 10 man core was extremely resistant to including a new member (which they tend to be since it means one of them sits more) and it's easier to decide not to help your guild when it seemingly benefits you than it is to work together.

MacCarthur was only in the pacific front. The supreme commander of the allies was Ike Eisenhower

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower

Gen. MacAuthor can come talk to me right after he explains the existence of North Korea and the Chinese invasion during the Korean War that was purely triggered by his abrasive attitude making them fear that he was going to invade -after- his troops had already finished off the North Koreans.

Abrassives just bring out the worst in other people. A raid leader should be trying to bring out their best not antagonize them.

First off, i want to point out that i am one of many who left this guild. So before you judge myself and the rest of us, you need to know the whole story, (parts left out by the GM).
I was a rescent addition to this guild upon a 4 month vacation from wow, playing rift. Upon coming back to the game, me and my crew found a new server which seemed promising due to high numbers in population and nice economy. One of my crew found this guild and gave it a shot, and the rest of us soon joined. Some, not all of us quickly joined the ranks of raiders. My crew has been playing together since vanilla, so with that being said, we have seen our share of just about anything you can imagine when it comes in the form of guild drama.
This raid leader "Eddie" was still around when my crew joined and never really said much in guild chat that would be considered condisending or down right harsh. However, shortly after his return from basic training, he came in full force with insults, racism, threats, you name it.
For the most part, me and my crew tried to ignore it and let it be. Yet on one fateful day, my own MILITARY background came out in guild chat. After seeing this kind of blatent bashing of guild members on a daily basis, i had enough. I was seeing from what i could only say, was a form of PTSD coming out in this "Eddie" person. Constently insulting lower ranking guild members and putting them down, trying to break them so HE could mold them back into the "Soldier" HE wanted them to be. This is exactly what happens to anyone who goes through Basic Training. Trust me, ive been through it myself. Anyway, as i stated earlier this kind of behavior is very close to a borderline case of PTSD, from bootcamp mind games. So, in guild chat, i pulled Military Rank on this "Eddie" guy and told him to act his rank, and stop insulting people. I also told him he needed to seek help for his obvious PTSD issues he was having. I reminded him of the oath he took when he joined the Military and that insulting civilians was not in that oath.
Immedietly upon saying these things, i get told by the GM in guild chat that i would be kicked if i continued "as he so delicatly put it" insulting his officer. I immediately got numerous whispers from many of the guild stateing, "it's about time someone put him in his place, called him out on his crap, etc". I also recieved many whispers from the current Officer base in guild, that if i got kicked, they were leaving the guild, and that they were tired of this favoritism by the GM towards this one Officer "Eddie". I then whispered the GM himself and simply explained my concerns for his Friend? / Officer. I also told him that it was not right for him to allow one of his Officers to disrespect people like "Eddie" was doing. Shortly after that i seen in guild chat, one of my crew say " respect is earned not demanded" The GM ended the conversation in guild chat and whispers shortly after that, threatening to kick any and all who disobey his words.
That same weekend is when the @#$% hit the fan so to say, the officer base tried to talk to the GM about this again, yet, only praise was given to this "Eddie" guy by the GM. He forgot the other officers and contributing players who helped get his guild up and running and into FL content. Needless to say, after they were left out of his so called loop of trusted opinions. They had enough as well and quit. Me and my crew quit as well, being as when we logged on that sunday morning, we found the guild message of the Day stating "Casual Racism is Permitted - Phob"
So now that you know the whole story of what "really" happened to this guild. Maybe you can see our point in quitting.
No one should have to log onto a game that they play for fun and entertainment and endure the kind of Harsh, obscene, vulgor, racist, disrespectful, language that this ONE officer was allowed to get away with. Joke or Not, it is uncalled for, and not to be taken lightly. We as gamers forget that most of the time our true nature comes out in these avatars we play in a fantasy world. So if you want to feel sorry for what this GM who allowed this to happen to his guild, feel free. It only shows that you, as well as him and his only trusted Officer share something in common.
I truely hope that once you have all read this now, you can empathize with those who left this guild on a road to self distruction.
As for the Death of our in game friend, we all are grieving him. And what the GM said about him not putting up with the drama and BS that the GM himself allowed to go on, i agree. He would have left with the rest of us and been a most enjoyed ally in the ranks of our new guild.
This player will be missed greatly by us, for he was a root to common sense in every raid i ran with him. Always a voice of reason, and level headedness.

Now you know the truth.

@Malichai, that is hardly the story at all. When you were talking to "Eddie" you started insulting him, RATHER than bring it to my attention. I only saw half the arguement and the half I saw was you basically telling him he needed to seek attention for his mental problems. I told you and everyone in the guild (as was referenced above), if you see Eddie breaking a rule, take a screenshot and send it to me. You couldn't even give me a screenshot from the current conversation. I basically told you and everyone else who had a problem with him that fighting fire with fire simply doesnt work, and that I have to treat this the same way any teacher or leader would. If you're in school and a kid hits you with a wad of paper, and instead of telling the teacher.... you hit him.... then yeah, you're going to get in trouble. Rather than having told me that he threw a paper wad. Coincidentally, when I told Eddie to quit presenting himself in a disrespectful manner was directly after this conversation (also mentioned above). I also want to point out that you never raided in the guild, and left because your mother is the above stated person who left. Which I have no problem with either of you.

@ Malichai

I'm sorry, but if the best that your "crew" could come up with to speak their side of things was you, then they chose poorly. While it's true that every dispute has at least two sides to it, you do not do your side justice.

Here's what I think happened. I think the guild leader made two mistakes here. One was allowing this "Eddie" fellow to talk to people whatever way he liked, because I'm willing to believe you on this one. I doubt your former leader is quite as innocent as he makes himself out to be and I'm certain he played down this guy's rude behavior. The other mistake, in my opinion, was inviting you and your "crew" in the first place.

I lead a guild myself and I've made this mistake before. You don't invite prefab cliques to your guild. You just don't. It doesn't matter HOW good some of its players are. If you disagree with even one of those members (and it takes a strong ego to rally a group of people to hop from server to server, guild to guild, so disagreements are almost certain), you disagree with ALL of those members. It leads to a very uncomfortable situation for that guild leader and generally for any members in the guild from before that clique came around. The ensuing split is almost always filled with a massive amount of drama. So don't play innocent. It took two (or a dozen) to tango and you're just as much to blame for this as your former leader is.

Also, that was pretty smooth there, the way you used your guildmate's death to attack your old leader one more time. You know, saying he was everything that Phobituary was not. Really fucking classy, man.

And one last thing. I have real trouble believing you've ever been in the military. You clearly don't know shit about PTSD, let alone what causes it. If you developed PTSD from simply attending basic training, then you are a serious pussy. Like, the most serious of pussies. You do not get PTSD from basic training. You get PTSD from actual extreme mental and emotional trauma... like seeing combat, like being raped, like seeing someone killed, you know... REAL trauma. You do NOT get PTSD from being told to drop and give Sergeant Buzzcut 50 push ups. Get a clue.

Its easy to point out that there are military leaders that have been abrasive and have done well, but the difference is with WoW we are paying money to participate in these events. I for one would not pay money to be treated like crap.

@Phob and Zoe.
First off, Phob. I did not post on here to start arguing back and forth. I simply posted to let another side of the story be heard. Yes, its my side of the story, from my perspective, but it gets the point across. And that is showing your favoritism towards this one person over the rest of your guild. I myself dont really care either way, but those of your core guild that you shit on deserve a voice. Oh and btw, i did raid with the second raid team as a standby, yet you were hardly on, so i dont expect you to know that.

Now onto Zoe. So you think i have no military background aye??? Lets think... AS2, USS Iwo Jima, 06 Lebinon evac, Katrina relief, amongst numerous missions in the gulf which my secondary duty came into play, stretcher bearer. To the civilian population that is an Onboard equivilant to an EMT. So yes i have seen the blood and the gore of combat. Given i am now a disabled vet, yet im still in the reserves, 7 years total now. SO please dont assume you know me at all. Now onto PTSD by definition it is simply a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma. That being said, Bootcamp mind games can be a contributing factor to some, depending on the mental capacity to handle the situation. Now i assumed that this Eddie guy was suffering from stress he recieved while in basic, yet came to find out he had to ID a friends faceless body in the weeks shortly after his release out of Basic. So i stick to my original story that this guy needs help, and for Phob as a friend you should make sure he gets it.

With that being said, i will no longer post on here. It was my first and this will be my last, as i feel that i have accomplished what i set out to do. Once i saw this familiar looking story on wowinsider, and realized that it was something i was involved in and could give voice to the others who knew nothing of this being on this website.

@ Malichai

HAHA! I knew it. The Navy? You didn't see shit that would've caused PTSD in any of the things you named. GSM2, USS Hawes, we were there for the USS Cole attack in Yemen, I was also a stretcher bearer for my general quarters position. Don't try and bullshit a bullshitter. You don't suffer from PTSD and, unless you just have an insane phobia of being told to fold clothes, you're not going to be getting it from US Navy basic training, either. Again, unless you're just THAT big a pussy.

@ Zoe
God really, can you read. Im not talking about myself you idiot. How you got that i suffer from it is beyond my understanding, other than maybe you mis-read it. Jesus man, go back and read it again. You sir, have pulled my comments way out of proportion, Im talking about the Army guy, "Eddie" not me, you tard.

It is people like you who mis-read things, and mis-understand them which cause so much more drama and argument than is needed.

So please just stop with your assumptions. If you cant read something correctly, dont read it at all. And even more, dont post responses. You only make yourself look dumb.

@ nicholasshaffer

Haha, you ass. I guess I got to you?

I should point out that I find it pretty funny that you ask me if I am able to read, when you've been clearly selective in your reading of my posts. Not only did I have a lot more to say than just whether or not you got PTSD in basic training, but then I went on to say you don't have it AND you don't get it from going to basic training. You sure did neglect to read anything but the "you don't have it" part.

Since you missed it, I'll say it again. This guild of Phob's is better off without you and your "crew". And no, I don't know either one of you. I play on Frostwolf. It's just that I recognize an ass when I see one.

MMotD: "Casual Racism is Permitted - Phob"

That alone would have gotten me to leave.

And suggesting someone get mental help isn't an insult if you mean it. It's trying to help them.