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11-09-2011 @ 4:28PM
I think one of the most interesting comments is this:"For example, Unholy, Survival and Subtlety have the capability to perform far better than most people realize."Does this mean that the players have not figured out the optimal rotations for these specs?
11-09-2011 @ 4:40PM
I think its more that they're a lot more work to master for not a lot if payoff. I seem to remember there being a post in the rogue column about subtlty being harder to master for not enough reward. I can't make any claims regarding UH or BM but I remembered the rogue column about it.
11-09-2011 @ 4:41PM
Unholy and sub are very good in their own right, sub especially with how well it scales.But survival is terrible, any player no matter how good, will do substantially more dps as MM than survival.Which is sad because I love me some survival, but I do too much more dps as MM to justify it in raids outside of Ryolith.
11-09-2011 @ 4:47PM
I can only comment on SV, but according to the PTR, I can't see any way that it could be doing better than it is simming. But, if there is something we players are missing...
11-09-2011 @ 5:21PM
At Blizzcon, they said they can make bots and model rotations better than players can and that there are multiple specs that are not using the optimal rotation.I'm curious what Survival could be doing better.
11-09-2011 @ 5:46PM
Sillies, you need to read Frosthiem's GC tracker post (and listen to the Out!DPS podcast...which I can't believe I'm actually plugging >.> ). Hunters have their rotations mastered. What we're missing are players who play them seriously with skill. I play MM. I have always played MM and will always play MM because its the closest to a sniper I'm going to get.But I have a BM off-spec on one hunter, and occassionally I pull it out just to liven things up or to two man dungeons with my sister on her Warlock. At least at this level (just dinged 85 on her, giving me three 85 hunters (soooo lame)) I can make BM competitive to my MM because I leveled it.Someone that's playing it just for kicks and giggles? Very much doubt they can master it the same way.
11-09-2011 @ 6:29PM
@ EmophiaI really don't see where you get the idea that Survival is terrible. I play survival and do VERY well. So, even if Survival is behind MM, it's by no means TERRIBLE. Heck, BM isn't that far behind, either, if played right. Compared to other DPS classes, all three Hunter specs are actually in a relatively good place at the moment. As far as the notion that, if one spec is slightly better DPS than another than you HAVE to play it, I find that ridiculous. I play Survival because I like it. If Survival and BM were leagues behind MM and not really competitive? Sure, I'd switch. (I played MM at the end of Wrath, and was nearly Armor Pen hard capped.) But Survival and BM are by no means in a bad state right now.While I can only go by personal, casual experience, I'd actually have to argue the opposite for Unholy DKs. I used to love Unholy. (Both my tank and DPS specs in Wrath were Unholy, and I did well enough.) But since Cata, I wasn't able to breech the 10k DPS mark in my 353 gear except in AoE situations. I did some research and couldn't find anything wrong with what I was doing, it just wasn't working... So, I switched to Frost and IMMEDIATELY gained 5k DPS, and that was without ever having played Frost before, and not knowing what the hell I was doing. Now, perhaps I WAS doing something terribly wrong while in Unholy spec, but I'd consider anything that is so unintuitive that merely swapping specs makes that big a difference, broken.
11-09-2011 @ 7:18PM
"Does this mean that the players have not figured out the optimal rotations for these specs?"Yes.Specifically, buried in the Blizzcon coverage, the devs mentioned that while players sometimes surprised them with their ability to get DPS out of specs, we also missed some better rotations from time, and that there were one or more specs that they had discovered better rotations.Now we know that they specifically meant that there are better rotations than the community-at-large has found for (at least) Unholy, Survival, and Subtlety. It very specifically is NOT a matter of players tightening up the rotation they're using (though that's unlikely to hurt your DPS); it's that we're doing it wrong (or at least sub-optimally.)We don't know how much the better rotation does, and won't until we figure out what it is. They balance using the best rotations they can, which means those specs will certainly under perform until we either find the rotation the devs use to balance or find a better one.
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