Beginner Roleplay: Choosing sides
A lot of the columns I've been writing lately have been about the ins and outs of character development -- how to create a character that is rooted in the world and has a sense of realism, what that character should be aware of. But those are only the stepping stones to developing a character once you've chosen what to be. How do you go about choosing a character in the first place?
While you could simply flip through the character creation screen and pick whatever looks pleasing to the eye, if you wanted to, you may want to give it a little more thought than that. If you're looking for long-term roleplay, throwing aside a character because it just doesn't feel right once you've gone through all the work to make it viable seems like a gigantic waste of time. So let's break it down to the choices available, and the pros and cons of each, and make it a little simpler to figure out.
Alliance
The Alliance are the touted heroes of World of Warcraft. When making a comparison between bad guys and good, the Alliance are the good guys. They are the native races of Azeroth -- with the exception of the Draenei -- that defend their world from those that seek to invade. The first Alliance wasn't the Alliance as we see it today; it was an Alliance of Human kingdoms. It wasn't until the Second War that the Alliance brought in outside races, and that's when the Dwarves and Gnomes came into play. And it wasn't until after the Third War that the Night Elves joined the Alliance as well. In The Burning Crusade, the Draenei followed suit, and in Cataclysm, the Worgen were added to the equation.
If you choose to play an Alliance character, be aware that though you are playing the good guys, things aren't so good for them in Cataclysm. Deathwing's arrival rocked the world, creating an all-out land grab from the Horde, and the Alliance has drawn the short end of the stick. Though vengeance has been dealt at long last to the Lich King, the Horde itself poses an immediate threat, one that has the upper hand.
This actually lends itself to some good roleplay situations, whether you want to play up the whole Alliance vs. Horde angle or the hero constantly under pressure. Because one thing is for certain as far as the Alliance is concerned: They have been beaten down, time and time again. And they repeatedly rise up, no matter how hard they've been beaten. Though the Horde holds the upper hand for now, the Alliance possesses the tenacity and sheer strength of will to continue to fight back, day in and day out.

- Humans The Humans of the Alliance are fresh from a victory over the Lich King in Northrend -- but that victory came at a cost. Thousands upon thousands lost their lives in the icy peaks of Northrend, both to the Lich King and his forces and to the Horde. In-fighting between Humans, whether from the Defias that still pose a threat in Westfall to the Twilight Cultists promoting the end of days, still plagues the Human realm just as much as the threat of the Horde.
- Dwarves The Dwarves of the Alliance have their hands full with political intrigue. After the death of their leader, the Council of Three Hammers has risen to take its place -- but not without struggle. The Council represents the three different factions: the Wildhammer that take to the skies on their gryphons, the Bronzebeard that live deep in the heart of Ironforge, and the Dark Iron, a faction that has, until Cataclysm, been an enemy to all.
- Gnomes The Gnomes of Gnomeregan have removed themselves from Ironforge's great halls, choosing to distance themselves from the political turmoil of their Dwarven friends and instead concentrate on fully reclaiming their capital city.
- Night Elves The Night Elves are dealing with sorrow on all sides. Darkshore was nearly destroyed in the Cataclysm, and countless lives were lost as a result. In Ashenvale, the Horde continues to push into Night Elf territory; in Stonetalon, the Night Elves are viciously attacked. The life of an Alliance Night Elf, for now, is one of all-out war.
- Draenei The Draenei are possibly the least developed race of this expansion, having been left largely to their own devices. They are still rebuilding their strength after their crash landing on Azeroth -- and according to Prophet Velen, preparing for a much larger battle that has yet to come, one that will dwarf any squabble between Alliance and Horde.
- Worgen The Worgen are the newest members of the Alliance. Former Humans from the kingdom of Gilneas, the Worgen now make their home in Darnassus with the Night Elves. For it was the Night Elves who originated the curse brought upon Gilneas, and thus, the Night Elves claim responsibility. The Worgen's admission into the Alliance was not an easy one, and they still deal with potential mistrust from their allies, no matter how earnest their wish to help may be.
Horde
After the Second War, the former slave Thrall that guided the Orcs to freedom and took the mantle of Warchief. A vision by a mysterious Prophet sent Thrall and the Orcs across the sea from the Eastern Kingdoms to Kalimdor. Along the way, he encountered the Trolls of the Darkspear Tribe, and after befriending them, took them into the Horde. After arriving on Kalimdor, Thrall allied with the native Tauren as well. After the Third War and before the start of World of Warcraft, the Warchief took the Forsaken into the fold -- and through the Forsaken, the Blood Elves during The Burning Crusade. The latest addition to the Horde ranks are the Goblins of the Bilgewater Cartel.
The Horde aren't really presented as a group of bad guys. Rather, they are presented as the underdogs, the downtrodden. The Orcs are obviously not native to Azeroth, and the Darkspear tribe of Trolls were cast out from the great Troll tribes of Stranglethorn Vale. The Forsaken are former Humans, no longer able to return to their old lives even if they wished to do so. The Blood Elves, formerly the High Elves, were alienated from the Alliance years before. Only the Tauren are really free from any sort of perceived oppression -- they were simply nomads that joined Thrall's cause.
But Cataclysm saw the Orc that banded them all step down from the mantle of leadership, appointing another in his stead. And where Thrall had a vision of unity, Garrosh Hellscream seems to have anything but. Ruthless and bloodthirsty, Garrosh has made it his goal to conquer the land shattered by Deathwing in the name of the Horde, harkening back to the days of old. And that doesn't sit well with the other races of the Horde.

- Orcs Garrosh Hellscream, who represents a drastic change in thinking, now leads the Orcs of the Horde. Where Thrall was a peacemaker, Garrosh calls for all-out war -- and though some Orcs follow him eagerly, others question whether his path is the right one.
- Trolls The Trolls of the Darkspear have recently reclaimed their home on the Echo Isles. This is a good thing, because Vol'jin, the leader of the Trolls, has butted heads with Garrosh on more than one occasion. Trolls are not the biggest fans of Hellscream's reign.
- Tauren The Tauren of Mulgore are dealing with loss, the death of their beloved chieftain, Cairne Bloodhoof. Combine that loss with the uprising of the Grimtotem Tribe, and you have a recipe for chaos.
- Forsaken The Lich King is dead and vengeance has been dealt. But the Forsaken, led by the Banshee Queen Sylvanas, appear to have a new agenda, though the purpose of that agenda is as yet unclear. Aided by the Val'kyr, the Forsaken seem to care little for the troubles of their Horde brethren, instead intent on something far more wicked -- something involving the Forsaken Plague.
- Blood Elves The Blood Elves of Silvermoon have their Sunwell restored and whole, but where does that leave them in the eyes of the rest of the Horde? Like the Draenei, the Blood Elves have seen very little development this expansion, instead concentrating on driving the remaining remnants of Scourge from their lands, keeping the Trolls of the Amani off of their doorstep, and avoiding the ire of Garrosh Hellscream.
- Goblins The Goblins of the Bilgewater Cartel narrowly escaped decimation when a volcano set off by Deathwing's return destroyed their island home of Kezan. An attack by Alliance ships left the Goblins shipwrecked on a desolate island, and they found allies in the Horde that had landed there as well. After rescuing the former Warchief Thrall, the Goblins joined with the Horde in earnest. These days, they work for the Horde ... and profit off of the Horde as well.
For further plot points, check out these previous articles detailing each individual race:
Alliance Humans / Dwarves / Gnomes / Night Elves / Draenei / Worgen
Horde Orcs / Trolls / Tauren / Forsaken / Blood Elves / Goblin
Filed under: All the World's a Stage (Roleplaying)
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Blayze Nov 13th 2011 8:12AM
True. The Horde gets to destroy the Alliance, but the Alliance has to deal with the hostile factions that would otherwise challenge the eventual Horde dominance in that area. I can't help but think that's intended.
/cynic
dodgeballer2005 Nov 13th 2011 12:46PM
I like your comment, however, the Alliance actually took back Gilneas. We don't get much to see about it, but if you notice in the Battle for Gilneas BG, WE'RE the ones at the gates defending, not the Horde.
The Horde are the only ones that get to see this take place, and I still think that Blizzard just didn't care all that much about Worgen plot points for them to see what mattered most. Red Shirt Guy, you asked another very important question this Blizzcon and we thank you for it.
Transit Nov 13th 2011 7:57PM
@ Melvyl
There were many things wrong with your assertions. I too, up until very recently had toons as well on both factions and on a pvp server no less. But recently the alliance guild I was in stopped raiding to become a more casual lvling guild. So I just consolidated my toons to the horde where I am in a more robust raiding guild.
Anyway....
"When I leveled my first Alliance character earlier in Wrath, I didn't really understand about the conflict between the two factions. Mainly because as Alliance I was fighting the Defias, the Blackrock Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Dragonmaw Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Naga, etc. Meanwhile Horde characters spent their time killing Dwarven Archaeologists in Mulgore, Human Farmers in Hillsbrad, and Night Elves in Ashenvale."
Another way you can see this is that the alliance were continuing to enter and disrupt horde areas in Mulgore, the southern barrens, and Durotar while the horde was leaving the alliance alone in the areas close to there cities, but whatever.
"Blood Elves are murdering Alliance Diplomats"
If you are thinking of the dwarf in Eversong, the name of the quest is "The Dwarven Spy" and the title of the quest speaks for itself really.
I would also like to point out the great number of camps that the nightelves (although I am not saying the alliance as a whole did this) set up in the starting zones. That seems pretty aggressive. Where were those troops when Silvermoon was being attacked? Or did the "moral and just Good guys" of the alliance want the then HIgh elves to be killed off. They probably were very rightfully busy but the camps are hardly a good guy move. At least the alliance could have helped rebuild Silvermoon (A then ally) later on but that did not happen either.
"The Horde attacked the Alliance in Icecrown rather than the Scourge."
Yes, the horde never attacked the scourge, ever, in all of Northrend! I kid. :-)
Anyway, there was never a truce in Northrend. There certainly was a cold war like stalemate, but there was not really a true truce. I seem to remember the alliance making a beachhead (And assaulting) the forsaken town of "Vengence Landing" right at the start of the expansion. Wowpedia describes the area "The very first Horde quest chain in Vengeance Landing sees you fighting off an Alliance ambush." So technically the alliance attacked first, but lets just say each side attacked each other really... And they both attacked the scourge too. lol
"The Horde took control of Gilneas."
I am not sure if it is fair to say that the Horde has taken Gilneas. It has certainly driven the general population out, but right now it is a battle ground at the moment and will probably always be one.
"The Horde took control of Andorhal with the assistance of the Scourge."
Well if you are counting the Val'kyr as members of the scourge you would be mistaken. They are FORMER members of the scourge, as were the Deathknights (Thassarian, and Koltira Deathweaver) that you did the quests for. They were both bad guys who had worked for the Lichking and thus the scourge as well.
"The Horde have taken control of most of Stonetalon and Ashenvale with the assistance of the up-until-then supposedly neutral Goblins and bringing in monsters from Northrend."
I wonder about the point that the alliance ever had ANY real control over Stonetalon before cata. They certainly have much more flight points there now then they did before cata (As well as the horde tbh.) I wonder though, was there ever really a resolution to Stonetalon? I am not sure if there is any clear winner there.
The goblins are an interesting point to bring up. Did you know that the goblins were neutral until the Alliance attacked them? And that the alliance did so with the intention of killing the then neutral goblins because the alliance did not want any witnesses to what they were doing with thrall? (I would like to point out to all the people who keep saying that the alliance never win against the horde, that in this instance, they won against the horde.) Trying to kill off the goblins because they were witnesses is hardly the act of a good guy I would think, but whatever.
And the monsters from northrend are interesting as that only appears in the novel not in game, I guess if you want to get upset over that from an ecological standpoint I guess that is fair. But bringing in beasts that are not native to an area is hardly a high crime of war I would think. I mean the alliance have mounts that may not be native to all areas where the alliance are in, is that bad?
"The Horde launched a miltary expedition right off the coast of Stormwind." Did you know that the alliance are sending troops into durotar, which is even closer then being "off the coast"? And that they have an actual camp there? I am not sure what your point is.
"The Horde, purportedly venturing into the Twilight Highlands in order to confront the Twilight's Hammer, attacked the Alliance Forces as they arrived and then again shortly afterward as they were attempting to setup their new base at Highbank."
Well the initail attack on the alliance was bad for both sides really, but I would also say that the "war" was full on at that point.
As for Highbank, if you played the storyline through on the horde side, which I assume you did, then you might remember the attack on highbank was more of a reprisal from the goblins then the horde really. For the alliance are, (and still are even after doing the quests there, which is kinda odd) attacking the goblin town of "The Krazzworks". So the goblins take the fight to Highbank.
I really wish these conversations would just be calmer. Why people take it so personally is beyond me. Calm down, have a snack and relax. Enjoy the story as a whole and don't get caught up as if it actually means something in real life to you. The fight with Horde vs Alliance is not the traditional "Empire vs. Rebels" or and Tolkien like good and bad narratives. It is a subtle tale where both sides are kinda acting dumb and being kinda ruthless too. So just enjoy the story please.
Hobstadt Nov 13th 2011 11:56AM
Alliance quests are about defeating various evil organisations, bent on destroying Azeroth, and losing against the Mighty Horde.
Horde quests are about defeating the Alliance.
If Alliance quests were about defeating the Horde, then the Horde would lose against the Alliance. And we can't have THAT. Unless the Alliance victory consists of the burning of four or less tents and no territorial gain.
Gulthor Nov 13th 2011 1:42PM
I've always said that the comparison between good and evil, or "good guys/bad guys" in regards to the Alliance and Horde is misplaced. They're both good, they both fight against the same evils of the world, but there is a core philosophical difference that makes cooperation between the two fleeting, at best. D&D has long had an alignment system in place in which even two "good guys" find it impossible to see eye-to-eye. The difference between Alliance and Horde is not a difference of Good vs. Evil, but of Law vs. Chaos. The Alliance are lawful - they believe that only by working together under a strict code of honor and faith that a greater good can be found - the classic Lawful Good mentality - whereas the Horde are clearly Chaotic. Freedom and the search for glory shapes the Horde, as well as a certain lust for power - to a Chaotic Good character, the ends justify the means, and a good outcome can and must be willing to be found even through questionable means.
I've been sayin' it for years :)
Shinae Nov 13th 2011 11:04PM
I love this description of the factions.
Gulthor Nov 14th 2011 1:47AM
Thanks :) I'm glad someone likes it.
And Hobstadt, no, of course I'm not saying that a nation that attacks another nation "fun and priofit, and exterminate or exiles their enitre population, is just as good as a peaceful, non-aggressive nation". I was in fact deliberately avoiding the flame-war that has side-barred this well-written roleplay article. I was merely voicing that the Alliance and Horde both have similar goals, enemies, and challenges: they both oppose the Scourge, the Burning Legion, and the Twilight Cult, they both want what's best for their people, even if that means shedding blood in order to do it, they're both too hard-headed to realize how much they have in common with one another, and they're both led by warmongering fools that refuse to see reason.
Even so, that doesn't make either faction - in at least so far as the D&D alignment system goes - evil. One is Lawful, the other Chaotic. You can argue morality, the evils and atrocities of war, and Good vs. Evil all you like, and apply arguments to either side, but when it comes down to the fundamental philosophical reason that the Alliance and Horde can't see eye to eye, it's a matter of Law vs. Chaos. And frankly, I think arguing about the morality of war and applying it to WoW is taking things a bit too seriously. This is a fantasy game, and you're given two rich options to explore when you create your hero. I chose to play Horde, and my paladin embraced the Light, became a Crusader of the Argent Crusade, and defeated the Lich King by the side of his friends and companions. How does that make my hero evil when compared to an Alliance paladin who did the same? No, the difference is that my paladin values freedom and glory, and loves being in a society that relishes individuality over tradition and fealty, which does not diminish the value of being in the opposite.
They both have their virtues, and they both have their failings, to be sure. Each faction is a rich and interesting choice. And that's what this article is about. It's good to be proud of your faction, but it's not good to ridicule someone else for their opinion, or to accuse someone attempting to offer another explanation of the old Alliance vs. Horde debate of justifying genocide.
To accuse someone of that would be acting like fourteen Hitlers. j/k
Hobstadt Nov 14th 2011 8:43AM
Except you defined the Horde expansionist politics of "we take what we want by force because we are warriors and imba and the ones we kill and plunder deserve it because they are weak" as chaotic good.
"Freedom and the search for glory shapes the Horde, as well as a certain lust for power - to a Chaotic Good character, the ends justify the means, and a good outcome can and must be willing to be found even through questionable means."
Except for the Horde, and especially the orcs, the "good outcome" is "we get what we want and got a nice bit of warfare to get it too, woohoo".
Besides Mulgore, Barrens, and Quel'Thalas, every piece of land that the Horde controls on Azeroth is taken by conquest. And the warmachine keeps rolling forward, at every border. And for the Horde, "glory" means killing people. Which basically means, the Horde will NEVER stop attacking wherever and whenever they can. I'm having huge problems defining that as Good. Unless of course, it's like a D&D playing friend of mine says. "I always play Chaotic Good. Then I can kill whoever I want whenever I want and do all kinds of selfish, heartless things and claim it's for the greater good, such as murdering random strangers and taking their money so I have gold enough to buy whatever equipment I want in order to be a better fighter and thereby fight better for the good cause."
Anyway, you have a point here. The Alliance is doomed. Because they have limits to what they will do to acheive victory. The Horde does not. Also, the Alliance suck in combat. Which is, maybe, why the Kirin Tor, the Argent Crusade, and the Cenarion Circle refuse to side with the Alliance. Maybe they realize that they can fight evil more effectively by letting the Alliance lose and eventually joining the Horde?
All this makes it very interesting playing Horde. And makes me feel pretty lame when I play Alliance. But we all know that Blizzard feels the same way too. ;-)
Gulthor Nov 14th 2011 11:27AM
There's definitely quite a lot I can agree with in your post - and I only play Tauren, so maybe that's part of where my "It's all groovy, baby" attitude is coming from.
If it hasn't come across that I have a lot of respect for the Alliance, I'm sorry about that. I really, genuinely like both factions, and I won't condone evil actions that the Horde has committed any more than I'll condone any evil action that the Alliance has committed. I will say that it's a terrible shame that the Alliance hasn't had any great victories in a while - Blizzard hasn't done a very good job of making the Alliance as compelling as the Horde. Trust me when I say that I hope that the Alliance gets there comeuppance and delivers a potent blow to the Horde (as long as it's not in Mulgore). I'd genuinely love nothing more than for Varian to take out Garrosh - and I think you'd find a lot of Hordies cheering for your faction leader, too.
Man, we hate that guy.
And I never said that the Alliance was doomed - I didn't mean to diminish the value of fealty and tradition, and I hope there's a turnaround. Frankly, it's simply good storytelling.
In any case, it's obvious you're passionate about the Alliance, and I can respect that. And I'd certainly be willing to admit that while the *faction* is Chaotic (and I still stand by the fact that the Alliance and Horde are still fighting a war of Law vs. Chaos), our current faction leader could very well be "Chaotic Evil". But I don't think you could have said the same about Thrall's Horde, and I still think it's unfair to judge the entire faction based on the actions of the faction leader - yours included. Blizzard does it to raise tensions and passions - again, it's good storytelling. But I stand by my statement that when you make a character in the Horde - as when you make a character in the Alliance - you choose whether that character is cast in the role of Hero or Villain. And I play heroes, just as you do.
And lastly, I do owe you a bit of an apology - I was teasing you a bit in my last message; it was meant as playful banter, but maybe it didn't come across that way. In any case, it doesn't seem as though I'm going to be able to make you see things any differently, and that's okay. I still stand by my previous statements. But try to remember, if you are truly passionate about this, that atrocities have been committed on both sides, and both factions have "good reason" to hate the other and to be unwilling to forgive. It's unfortunate, but then again, if it wasn't there, we wouldn't have the game that we enjoy playing so much.
Cheers,
- Gulthor
Hobstadt Nov 14th 2011 3:01PM
Thrall is awesome. He is not at all a Mary Sue. Light, I hate when people call him that.
And the Tauren are not evil at all. Nor is any other Horde race, actually. Except the bloody orcs!
The Orc NPCs are annoying me so much that playing Horde in Cata gets my blood pressure up. (Except Garona - she is epic.)
What I hope Alliance gets in MoP as retribution for Theramore is crushing the spirit of the orcs by capturing and renaming Grom'Gol (named after Garrosh father) and Hammerfall (named after Doomhammer, also the place where he died) to Fort Lothar and Victory Point, respectively. Those victories will drive Orc morale into the ground, be a huge insult to them, and taking away A LOT of their glory, since these are places that have a huge symbolic meaning to them. (And none at all to the rest of the Horde.)
Also, I wanna have a monument in Hammerfall. "Here was justice delivered upon Orgrim, butcher of thousands of innocents."
And can we please get a quest to pull down and smash the monument to Grom Hellscream before we are driven out of Ashenvale? Plz Blizz? Pretty Plz? ;-)
Phoenix Psaltery Nov 13th 2011 4:32PM
On the contrary, I am an Orc, and I consider *us* to be the good guys. Who took an infant orc and raised him to be a gladiator? Who kept the Orcs in internment camps for decades? Humans, that's who. *spit*
Vinyl Nov 13th 2011 6:01PM
Oh, so invading Azeroth & preemptively razing Stormwind is alright? Cool.
Hobstadt Nov 13th 2011 8:42PM
Yes, I am SURE that has NOTHING to at all to do with the Horde doing all they can to EXTERMINATE the humans, the dwarves, the elves and the draenei, merrily cheered on by their Warchief who, may I add, never drank demon blood, was still a butchering psychopath and got the honor of the capitol of the so-called "honorable" orcs named after him.
I can't see how any Orc player can whine about the Orcs being held in camps when the same Orcs killed entire cities full of men, women and children and never took any prisoner at all. Especially since, guess what? The orcs are doing it again now, trying to expand everywhere they can and exterminating entire cities to get more Lebensraum. Or more mats. Or just cutting down trees and letting them rot to because they should have the right to do what they want. Or just attacking because they love to fight. Or for fun. Whatever.
The sad thing is that this time, the Horde don't have deranged forest trolls and stupid ogres in their ranks, but consists of nations that aren't particulary interested in expansion of expansion's sake or going into war just because that's what warriors are supposed to do, but races that, supposedly, need a reason beyond Lok'tar Ogar to attack neighboring countries. Doesn't change anything, appereantly. Except maybe the outcome of the battles since the other Horde racial leaders are aware that they can win more battles with better tactics than the Frontal Charge.
Hobstadt Nov 13th 2011 8:42PM
Wait, what?
So you are basically saying that a nation that attacks another nation, for fun and priofit, and exterminate or exiles their enitre population, is just as good as a peaceful, non-aggressive nation?
Congratulations. You just justfied every invasion and every genocide in the history of mankind.
Hobstadt Nov 13th 2011 8:45PM
That was a reply to Gulthor. I clicked on reply, but sometimes the comment system wanna do whatever it feels like. Just like the orcs, actually.
Phoenix Psaltery Nov 14th 2011 12:35AM
> Or just cutting down trees and letting them rot to because they should have the right to do what they want.
They respawn... ;)
Hobstadt Nov 14th 2011 8:43AM
I fully expect the entire zone of Ashenvale to look exactly like the Warsong Lumber Camp, should the Horde win in Ashenvale. Which is not too hard to imagine, since with Theramore gone, they can attack Ashenvale with every Horde soldier on Kalimdor, because without Theramore, Northwatch hold and the remaining Alliance troops in the Southern Barrens should be very easy to destroy too. (And, btw, I know EXACTLY how Theramore will be razed. Shamans. Earthquakes. In the middle of the night. Followed by massive firebombing of the rubble from Goblin Zeppelins. And grunts rushing in to wipe out whatever is left. At least, that's how I would do it. The destruction of Durnholde Keep but on a much larger scale. And since there are no shamans in Theramore, it can't be countered or predicted. Also, I predict Jaina's death during the attack. Big deal.)
Anyway, with the Theramore forces being history, the Horde have no southern front on Kalimdor, which means that they have forces freed to deforest Ashenvale and wipe out all the Night Elves and Ancients. Again, that's what I'd do. The forest will grow back in a few decades. (And until then, the Horde can get wood from Dustwallow Marsh or Feralas.) But the Night Elves and the Ancients will stay dead. And given the exceedingly poor performance of Night Elves vs. Orcs in combat, having the Kaldorei pushed off the mainland all the way back to Teldrassil it's not much of a loss for the Alliance if you ask me.
BTW, since Nordrassil is alive, we don't really NEED Teldrassil, do we? I wonder if a great number of Horde shamans can create an earthquake big enough to make it fall? ;-)