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11-13-2011 @ 6:48AM
When I leveled my first Alliance character earlier in Wrath, I didn't really understand about the conflict between the two factions. Mainly because as Alliance I was fighting the Defias, the Blackrock Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Dragonmaw Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Naga, etc. Meanwhile Horde characters spent their time killing Dwarven Archaeologists in Mulgore, Human Farmers in Hillsbrad, and Night Elves in Ashenvale. Even in BC, while the Draenei are battling Kael'thas' Followers (not members of the Horde) the Blood Elves are murdering Alliance Diplomats.But there was still an uneasy truce going into Northrend when the Alliance and Horde forces confronted the Lich King at the Wrathgate... where the Forsaken allegedly broke the trust of the Horde while slaughtering Bolvar and the Alliance.And since....The Horde attacked the Alliance in Icecrown rather than the Scourge.The Horde took control of Gilneas.The Horde took control of Andorhal with the assistance of the Scourge.The Horde have taken control of most of Stonetalon and Ashenvale with the assistance of the up-until-then supposedly neutral Goblins and bringing in monsters from Northrend.The Horde launched a miltary expedition right off the coast of Stormwind.The Horde, purportedly venturing into the Twilight Highlands in order to confront the Twilight's Hammer, attacked the Alliance Forces as they arrived and then again shortly afterward as they were attempting to setup their new base at Highbank.I have 85s on both sides now but that doesn't mean that I consider both sides equal from a moral standpoint.
11-13-2011 @ 8:03AM
I think you have a point about the way the Horde storyline concentrates far more on conflict with the Alliance, possibly an accident, due to what's geographically closest to their starting zones. Let's get some Forsaken infiltrators skulking about in Elwynn Forest.For my part, my first levelling experience as Horde was accidentally wandering into Ashenvale at level 11. My only experience was of killing scorpids, rogue trolls and Burning Legion cultists. I saw Night Elves for the first time, was transfixed by how amazing they looked. They shot me down like a dog. I knew then, they were my enemies.
11-13-2011 @ 8:12AM
True. The Horde gets to destroy the Alliance, but the Alliance has to deal with the hostile factions that would otherwise challenge the eventual Horde dominance in that area. I can't help but think that's intended./cynic
11-13-2011 @ 12:46PM
I like your comment, however, the Alliance actually took back Gilneas. We don't get much to see about it, but if you notice in the Battle for Gilneas BG, WE'RE the ones at the gates defending, not the Horde.The Horde are the only ones that get to see this take place, and I still think that Blizzard just didn't care all that much about Worgen plot points for them to see what mattered most. Red Shirt Guy, you asked another very important question this Blizzcon and we thank you for it.
11-13-2011 @ 7:57PM
@ MelvylThere were many things wrong with your assertions. I too, up until very recently had toons as well on both factions and on a pvp server no less. But recently the alliance guild I was in stopped raiding to become a more casual lvling guild. So I just consolidated my toons to the horde where I am in a more robust raiding guild.Anyway...."When I leveled my first Alliance character earlier in Wrath, I didn't really understand about the conflict between the two factions. Mainly because as Alliance I was fighting the Defias, the Blackrock Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Dragonmaw Orcs (not members of the Horde), the Naga, etc. Meanwhile Horde characters spent their time killing Dwarven Archaeologists in Mulgore, Human Farmers in Hillsbrad, and Night Elves in Ashenvale."Another way you can see this is that the alliance were continuing to enter and disrupt horde areas in Mulgore, the southern barrens, and Durotar while the horde was leaving the alliance alone in the areas close to there cities, but whatever."Blood Elves are murdering Alliance Diplomats"If you are thinking of the dwarf in Eversong, the name of the quest is "The Dwarven Spy" and the title of the quest speaks for itself really. I would also like to point out the great number of camps that the nightelves (although I am not saying the alliance as a whole did this) set up in the starting zones. That seems pretty aggressive. Where were those troops when Silvermoon was being attacked? Or did the "moral and just Good guys" of the alliance want the then HIgh elves to be killed off. They probably were very rightfully busy but the camps are hardly a good guy move. At least the alliance could have helped rebuild Silvermoon (A then ally) later on but that did not happen either."The Horde attacked the Alliance in Icecrown rather than the Scourge."Yes, the horde never attacked the scourge, ever, in all of Northrend! I kid. :-)Anyway, there was never a truce in Northrend. There certainly was a cold war like stalemate, but there was not really a true truce. I seem to remember the alliance making a beachhead (And assaulting) the forsaken town of "Vengence Landing" right at the start of the expansion. Wowpedia describes the area "The very first Horde quest chain in Vengeance Landing sees you fighting off an Alliance ambush." So technically the alliance attacked first, but lets just say each side attacked each other really... And they both attacked the scourge too. lol"The Horde took control of Gilneas."I am not sure if it is fair to say that the Horde has taken Gilneas. It has certainly driven the general population out, but right now it is a battle ground at the moment and will probably always be one."The Horde took control of Andorhal with the assistance of the Scourge."Well if you are counting the Val'kyr as members of the scourge you would be mistaken. They are FORMER members of the scourge, as were the Deathknights (Thassarian, and Koltira Deathweaver) that you did the quests for. They were both bad guys who had worked for the Lichking and thus the scourge as well."The Horde have taken control of most of Stonetalon and Ashenvale with the assistance of the up-until-then supposedly neutral Goblins and bringing in monsters from Northrend."I wonder about the point that the alliance ever had ANY real control over Stonetalon before cata. They certainly have much more flight points there now then they did before cata (As well as the horde tbh.) I wonder though, was there ever really a resolution to Stonetalon? I am not sure if there is any clear winner there.The goblins are an interesting point to bring up. Did you know that the goblins were neutral until the Alliance attacked them? And that the alliance did so with the intention of killing the then neutral goblins because the alliance did not want any witnesses to what they were doing with thrall? (I would like to point out to all the people who keep saying that the alliance never win against the horde, that in this instance, they won against the horde.) Trying to kill off the goblins because they were witnesses is hardly the act of a good guy I would think, but whatever.And the monsters from northrend are interesting as that only appears in the novel not in game, I guess if you want to get upset over that from an ecological standpoint I guess that is fair. But bringing in beasts that are not native to an area is hardly a high crime of war I would think. I mean the alliance have mounts that may not be native to all areas where the alliance are in, is that bad?"The Horde launched a miltary expedition right off the coast of Stormwind." Did you know that the alliance are sending troops into durotar, which is even closer then being "off the coast"? And that they have an actual camp there? I am not sure what your point is."The Horde, purportedly venturing into the Twilight Highlands in order to confront the Twilight's Hammer, attacked the Alliance Forces as they arrived and then again shortly afterward as they were attempting to setup their new base at Highbank."Well the initail attack on the alliance was bad for both sides really, but I would also say that the "war" was full on at that point. As for Highbank, if you played the storyline through on the horde side, which I assume you did, then you might remember the attack on highbank was more of a reprisal from the goblins then the horde really. For the alliance are, (and still are even after doing the quests there, which is kinda odd) attacking the goblin town of "The Krazzworks". So the goblins take the fight to Highbank.I really wish these conversations would just be calmer. Why people take it so personally is beyond me. Calm down, have a snack and relax. Enjoy the story as a whole and don't get caught up as if it actually means something in real life to you. The fight with Horde vs Alliance is not the traditional "Empire vs. Rebels" or and Tolkien like good and bad narratives. It is a subtle tale where both sides are kinda acting dumb and being kinda ruthless too. So just enjoy the story please.
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