Drama Mamas: When "just friends" intrudes on love
The above song was played once an hour on MTV when it first came out. (In before the "when they were still playing music" comments.) Twenty-seven years later and I'm still sick of it. It is also from a movie about a love triangle -- I hear -- which makes it kind of pertinent to this week's letter.
My name is Robby and I've recently stumbled upon your "Drama Mamas" section on WoW Insider. I find that this column focuses on an often overlooked facet in dealing with MMORPGS, the human part. I've been an avid WoW player for about 2.5 years. I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderful girlfriend of 4 years that plays with the same enthusiasm that I do. We try and play together when we can but life is life and we are limited by school and work etc.
My current problem is that in our travels around Azeroth we have met many people, some are good and some are not so good. I try and keep my real life and my game life as separate things. I've made friends in game that I very rarely contact outside of game. Most people I meet on game are more like colleagues I work with. At work I talk and interact with them, we "do our job" and then I go home to real life and that's the end of it.
My girlfriend is a very different player. She has a friend she met through the game that she has talked to for over 2 years. They live about 12 hours away, is about 20 years older than her and he's a man. They talk daily via text messaging, they make frequent phone calls, and in game they are constantly in a group. I consider myself a very level headed person not prone to jealousy, but all I keep thinking off are "Dateline" episodes where internet predators end up killing people.
The situation came to a head when earlier this year he came down and visited (12 Hrs to visit) and recently he came down again. I've voiced my discomfort but I've yet to say "this wont happen again". Her parents are ok with the whole idea and she sees nothing at all wrong with it.
My question is am I wrong to feel this way? To my knowledge there has been no badness to come of this. They vow to stay friends even if there was no World of Warcraft. I don't like to think of issuing an ultimatum, but what more could I do?
Thank you for your time and keep up the great writing.
Without making any judgments at all about your girlfriend or her long-distance buddy, I can tell you that the feelings between a young woman and a man 20 years her senior are not typically as reciprocally platonic as they're usually painted to be. It's exciting to have the attentions of a younger woman, and it's flattering to have the attentions of an older man. What's more, it's easy enough in this situation to use the age difference and geographic separation as excuses to assure everyone -- including the parties themselves! -- that things are purely platonic. They manage to have their cake and eat it too.
Let's get this straight: I'm not one of those who believe that men and women absolutely cannot be strictly friends. What I am saying is that it's fairly likely that your girlfriend and her buddy are a lot more emotionally involved than they'd like to admit. Being friends with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you immune to their attractions; if it's a mature platonic relationship, though, both parties will be explicitly aware of those feelings and handle them as a matter of course, keeping the boundaries firmly set.
Given the available opportunities for denial in this situation (age difference and geographic distance), it would not be surprising to discover your girlfriend is having romantic feelings for her friend that she is unwilling to admit even to herself. And given the way that time spent together, in-person visits and personal feelings are sliding all over the place, it doesn't look like friendly moderation is what's going on.
One problem I see, as a mama who's been around the sun a few more times than you and your girlfriend, is that most mature people my age have learned to tell when people are uncomfortable and putting on a good show. The fact that your girlfriend's friend doesn't seem to be sensing or heeding the chaos he causes during his visits (or during his conversations with your girlfriend -- because come on, we all know they're talking about this) throws up a red flag. What is blinding him to something a man of his age and experience should be able to perceive? What is stopping him from seeing that bringing this relationship out of the game space is creating turmoil for his younger friend? Hmm ...
But enough speculation. It's time to talk honestly with your girlfriend about how she would feel if you spent an equal amount of time with a female friend of your own. How much does this affect your feelings for your girlfriend? Is their relationship a deal-breaker for you? Let her know exactly where you stand. Maybe she'll finally get the hint that she's undermining your relationship, and you can work out something that you're both comfortable with. Or maybe she'll continue to claim she doesn't have any issues with opposite-gender friendships.
If the latter is the case, I might suggest that perhaps it's worth trying out a little female friendship of your own. Now, now -- I'm not talking about any petty revenge tactics. This is strictly on the up-and-up. Expand your own social horizons during all that time she's hobnobbing with her buddy. I'm not saying to go date girls, and I'm not saying to go seek out female friendships; I'm just saying you should go be social, and if girls are there, so be it. She might gain some perspective. You might gain a new friend or two. And with more equal social time and breathing room for everyone, you'll definitely both have a chance to make some new discoveries about where your relationship is headed.
Thanks for reading, Robby. Please write back and let us know how things work out!
There are a few things I would like to point out:
- Having no friends from work that you hang out with outside of work is a little odd. Work is a common ground which often forms friendships. The fact that you eschew any out-of-work contact makes you seem antisocial.
- You say that you have in-game friends that you "very rarely contact" outside of the game. So you do contact one or two via other means? Or has that been just to coordinate in-game activities?
- You say your girlfriend is a very different person, but in fact she seems to only have one friend that she contacts outside of WoW. Perhaps you also mean that she is more social in general?
Yes, I think it's very worrisome, and yes, I think you would be rather naive not to be suspicious. But I think you may be able to reduce the damage of Older Guy by engaging in more out-of-game social activities with your girlfriend. Perhaps you could allow yourself to make friends at work, hopefully with a couple so that you can all go out together. Or you might arrange more outings with current friends. Whether it's just the two of you or you're with a group, spending more time outside of WoW would be much better for your relationship.
Warning: Your girlfriend may at some point admit to having an online affair with Older Guy. I recommend you decide now whether that is a deal-breaker or not. If it is, it wouldn't hurt to form an exit strategy that is as drama-free as possible. I often find that if I have a way to escape from a bad situation, I am more relaxed about it -- even (particularly?) if I never have to use it.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 8)
woecip Nov 14th 2011 3:21PM
Get back to work -
Signed: Your boss
Robin Torres Nov 14th 2011 7:18PM
I did think about that header image being a bit much. Sorry if it causes you more trouble than websurfing does while at work. :)
Nina Katarina Nov 14th 2011 2:37PM
I notice throughout that you say girlfriend and not fiancee. She may feel, consciously or subconsciously, that you have not yet fully committed to her so she's got tacit permission to play the field, or at least keep her options open for when your relationship ends.
Have you asked her to marry, or talked about it at all? If not, what are you waiting for? Is there something she has to do or you have to do before the ring?
Make your decision. S*** or get off the pot. If she says she doesn't want to marry, that tells you a great deal.
And while you may have been wanting to wait until the absolutest perfect time to ask, there's a great deal to be said for spontenaity. If you don't specifically ask her, and let her know how much she means to you in actual words in a language you both speak, she may always have doubts.
Shinae Nov 14th 2011 2:48PM
I was thinking the same thing. Four years is a long time to just be dating.
Saeadame Nov 14th 2011 2:59PM
Not saying your point is invalid, but not everyone wants to get married period, and not because they're not committed to their partner. I know people who have been together and been together for more than 20 years but don't want to go through the whole hubub of marriage.
Marriage does not solve problems, nor does it necessarily signify commitment. Plenty of couples get married BECAUSE their relationship is in trouble, because they think this "sign of commitment" will solve their problems. These two should have a discussion about their relationship in general, and how committed to each other they are without bringing up marriage, because that can bring in a lot of things (like social obligations, expectations, etc) that will just mess up the conversation. She might feel obliged to say yes, even if she doesn't really want to, or she might feel obliged to say no even though she actually wants to, depending on what feeling she's getting from Robby about his feelings and why he's asking.
edersons Nov 14th 2011 3:12PM
Agreed. 4 years is too long for a Girlfriend/BoyFriend relationsship, unless something IMPORTANT is blocking the way.
Nagaina Nov 14th 2011 3:26PM
::dryly::
My now-husband and I were together for *seven years* before we got married. Our courtship period lasted longer than some of the marriages on either side of our extended family. Four years? Not that strange.
Nina Katarina Nov 14th 2011 3:29PM
It's not too long for girlfriend/boyfriend - you're right, many people never do the legal thing. And talking about her parents and school suggests that they might be in college, which would put an impediment to getting married right away.
But I know an awful lot of guys who stayed in the boyfriend/girlfriend zone far too long, always just assuming that their girl didn't want to get married yet, without saying anything. She can't read your mind. She may not know that you're planning to retire with her in 50 years and drive your grandchildren crazy.
Talk about it. Wedding/elopement/handfasting/pledging alone at sunrise on a cliff above a beach, kids/no kids, ring/no ring. Even if you and she never want to go through the legal hassles until marriage is legal for everyone everywhere, get it out into the open that you plan a permanent future with her.
And if you don't ever let her know that you plan a permanent future with her, you have no right to be jealous that she's looking elsewhere for someone who just might.
Maribel Nov 14th 2011 3:52PM
My suspicion was that they're actually fairly young - notice that he mentions what her parents think of this. If they're old enough to live on their own, why would her parents' opinions be relevant, and why would he be thinking internet predators and Dateline?
Traci Nov 14th 2011 4:00PM
Did the guy's letter mention how old they are? Because he specifically said something about her parents being ok with the 'old guy' and their lives are limited by 'school and work.' This leads me to think they are still very young. It sounds like they probably started dating in high school. For all we know they are still in high school. I'd guess, just from his wording, that they are around 20. Too young to be getting engaged, in my opinion.
ravyncat Nov 14th 2011 4:07PM
I got the idea they were in highschool too. In which case dating for four years but not wanting to get married at like seventeen or something is pretty normal.
But other than that, this situation is weird. I can't imagine why her parents aren't weirded out. I certainly would be.
Piisuke Nov 14th 2011 4:26PM
He talks about her parents and school. How old do you think they are? Aside from that, my and my gf have been together for 6 years. A lot of people simply marry, to "prove" that they are committed, only to divorce when things don't work out.
For any man/guy/boy out there, another man travelling 12 hours to see somebody of the opposite sex? That is an instant warning. If it was a meeting of friends/guildies, sure, whatever, but this was just between said girl and man. I have yet to see a platonic relationship where somebody is willing to travel this much, where they talk this much and spend this much time together.
I've had a similar issue with my gf and I simply made it very clear how I felt about it. She was always texting him and they were going out with her colleagues (they worked together on the same department) and when I offered to come along, she said that it was alright and not to worry. As I didn't trust her, I decided, of which I am not proud, to read some of her texts to find out what was going on. I then confronted her, using evidence without making it obvious that I read some of her text and we sorted it out. Turned out that there was something missing between us and she sought this missing with her colleague. We worked on this and everything's fine again.
As others mentioned, it might be that she is missing something. Maybe you don't give her enough attention. Like it, or note, women adore attention, hence she is constantly talking to him, whatever the circumstances.
Maybe go out together, go to a restaurant and do not take your phones with you. Just you and her and chat. If you feel you're distant, try to catch up, etc.
muffin_of_chaos Nov 14th 2011 4:30PM
I feel really sorry for people who can't talk about commitment without insisting on marriage.
In the modern age, marriage is usually a crutch, a way to enforce commitment rather than nurture it.
One unfortunate reason for marriage--weddings--are huge parties that are made out to be incredibly important occasions. They aren't. The fantasies of little girls, fostered by former little girls, shouldn't be encouraged like they are.
Similarly, as some sort of litmus test for "true love"...there *isn't* true love...the whole idea of true love diminishes the importance of actually trying to grow a relationship. People end up thinking "it wasn't meant to be" instead of "maybe I should try something new or see this in a different light."
Some traditions are meant to die. Especially in a world in which one person is not necessary to watch over the house and kids.
cosmicape Nov 14th 2011 7:09PM
@ muffin_of_chaos
I have no idea why you have been down voted. All you speak are truths and wisdom.
Robert Nov 14th 2011 8:20PM
While those of you who suggest this young couple are still in school make a valid point, this story becomes a LOT more weirder and creepier if the 18-year old girlfriend is seeing a 38-year old man, and the 18-year old boyfriend is jealous.
Anyways, lots of people wait a long time to get married these days, a lot longer than they used to. My 50-year old uncle waited ELEVEN years before proposing to his girlfriend.
goldeneye Nov 15th 2011 11:05AM
I can definately say that, had my wife's parents NOT approved of me, it's have gotten a HECK of a lot harder to keep dating her. As it is though, I'm lucky with my parents in law and they practically treat me as one of their own.
Golden Rule: It is VERY hard to keep a woman/girl away from her parents. They've been in her lives for far longer than you have been. Even when they disagree you're still down on the ladder.
shotiechan Nov 15th 2011 2:20PM
First off: As other commenters have noticed, the odds seems pretty high of them being really young, as in, teenagers, who can't legally marry. It's a possibility.
Secondly: Not everyone believes marriage is for them. I realize in American society, marriage is sort of drilled into us that it's the end-all, be-all for a happy ending, but the reality is, not everyone wants that, or feels they need it. Just because you have a piece of paper saying you are legally bound to one another doesn't necessarily make the relationship automatically more solid; just more difficult to "break up" if you decide you're unhappy. Some people don't want that. Some people don't for personal reasons. Some don't want it for religious reasons. Some don't want it just because they don't want it. Some people CAN'T get married in this day and age, and that's sad.
My point is, it bothers me when people say, "They've been together four years and aren't married? Clearly there's a lack of commitment here!" No, clearly there IS commitment here, or they wouldn't have stayed together FOR FOUR YEARS. Why does a sheet of a paper saying they're committed magically mean they're more committed than the fact they've stayed together for four years? That's incredibly dismissive and hurtful. And honestly, none of anyone's business but theirs.
Grumpy Wow Guy Nov 14th 2011 2:39PM
If you don't have the brains nor cojones to put a stop to this guy macking on your woman, then your relationship with her is done.
Nagaina Nov 14th 2011 2:39PM
OP:
Just a word of advice. "This won't happen again" is not something you get to tell your girlfriend. Sorry, but it just isn't. She's not your property and you do not have the right to dictate either her friendships or her social activities. Also: issuing ultimatums is an extremely fast way to end a relationship with any woman who's disinclined to put up with that sort of thing.
My advice? Talk to your girlfriend. You know, *communicate with her directly.* Enumerate your concerns. Have a frank and meaningful conversation about your relationship, where you want it to go, and what the both of you intend to do about that in the future. Because frankly? It seems to me like you're having personal trust issues, issues which need to be resolved if you want your relationship to last.
For the record: I've personally met with more than one WoW friend, most of whom are younger than me and maler than me and with whom I have platonic friendships related to our shared interest in roleplaying, fantasy novels, and gamer culture in general. Haven't sexed up a one of them. I think, frankly, that the Mamas are leaping to a number of conclusions based on supposition, not evidence.
laudickj Nov 14th 2011 3:08PM
I wonder how many of those guys would "sex you up" if given the opportunity.
I agree with you that she is not his property so he can't tell her what she can and can't do, but when you are in a relationship there are certain things that you do and don't do, and if this "friendship" means that much to her that she would be willing to end her relationship with her boyfriend of 4 years, then they don't need to beat around the bush anymore.
If it was just an online friendship then i would say the boyfriend is a little over-jealous, but when their texting, calling, and driving 12 hours 1-way to visit, he is completely justified in wanting her to stop it.