Drama Mamas: When "just friends" intrudes on love
The above song was played once an hour on MTV when it first came out. (In before the "when they were still playing music" comments.) Twenty-seven years later and I'm still sick of it. It is also from a movie about a love triangle -- I hear -- which makes it kind of pertinent to this week's letter.
My name is Robby and I've recently stumbled upon your "Drama Mamas" section on WoW Insider. I find that this column focuses on an often overlooked facet in dealing with MMORPGS, the human part. I've been an avid WoW player for about 2.5 years. I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderful girlfriend of 4 years that plays with the same enthusiasm that I do. We try and play together when we can but life is life and we are limited by school and work etc.
My current problem is that in our travels around Azeroth we have met many people, some are good and some are not so good. I try and keep my real life and my game life as separate things. I've made friends in game that I very rarely contact outside of game. Most people I meet on game are more like colleagues I work with. At work I talk and interact with them, we "do our job" and then I go home to real life and that's the end of it.
My girlfriend is a very different player. She has a friend she met through the game that she has talked to for over 2 years. They live about 12 hours away, is about 20 years older than her and he's a man. They talk daily via text messaging, they make frequent phone calls, and in game they are constantly in a group. I consider myself a very level headed person not prone to jealousy, but all I keep thinking off are "Dateline" episodes where internet predators end up killing people.
The situation came to a head when earlier this year he came down and visited (12 Hrs to visit) and recently he came down again. I've voiced my discomfort but I've yet to say "this wont happen again". Her parents are ok with the whole idea and she sees nothing at all wrong with it.
My question is am I wrong to feel this way? To my knowledge there has been no badness to come of this. They vow to stay friends even if there was no World of Warcraft. I don't like to think of issuing an ultimatum, but what more could I do?
Thank you for your time and keep up the great writing.
Without making any judgments at all about your girlfriend or her long-distance buddy, I can tell you that the feelings between a young woman and a man 20 years her senior are not typically as reciprocally platonic as they're usually painted to be. It's exciting to have the attentions of a younger woman, and it's flattering to have the attentions of an older man. What's more, it's easy enough in this situation to use the age difference and geographic separation as excuses to assure everyone -- including the parties themselves! -- that things are purely platonic. They manage to have their cake and eat it too.
Let's get this straight: I'm not one of those who believe that men and women absolutely cannot be strictly friends. What I am saying is that it's fairly likely that your girlfriend and her buddy are a lot more emotionally involved than they'd like to admit. Being friends with someone of the opposite sex doesn't make you immune to their attractions; if it's a mature platonic relationship, though, both parties will be explicitly aware of those feelings and handle them as a matter of course, keeping the boundaries firmly set.
Given the available opportunities for denial in this situation (age difference and geographic distance), it would not be surprising to discover your girlfriend is having romantic feelings for her friend that she is unwilling to admit even to herself. And given the way that time spent together, in-person visits and personal feelings are sliding all over the place, it doesn't look like friendly moderation is what's going on.
One problem I see, as a mama who's been around the sun a few more times than you and your girlfriend, is that most mature people my age have learned to tell when people are uncomfortable and putting on a good show. The fact that your girlfriend's friend doesn't seem to be sensing or heeding the chaos he causes during his visits (or during his conversations with your girlfriend -- because come on, we all know they're talking about this) throws up a red flag. What is blinding him to something a man of his age and experience should be able to perceive? What is stopping him from seeing that bringing this relationship out of the game space is creating turmoil for his younger friend? Hmm ...
But enough speculation. It's time to talk honestly with your girlfriend about how she would feel if you spent an equal amount of time with a female friend of your own. How much does this affect your feelings for your girlfriend? Is their relationship a deal-breaker for you? Let her know exactly where you stand. Maybe she'll finally get the hint that she's undermining your relationship, and you can work out something that you're both comfortable with. Or maybe she'll continue to claim she doesn't have any issues with opposite-gender friendships.
If the latter is the case, I might suggest that perhaps it's worth trying out a little female friendship of your own. Now, now -- I'm not talking about any petty revenge tactics. This is strictly on the up-and-up. Expand your own social horizons during all that time she's hobnobbing with her buddy. I'm not saying to go date girls, and I'm not saying to go seek out female friendships; I'm just saying you should go be social, and if girls are there, so be it. She might gain some perspective. You might gain a new friend or two. And with more equal social time and breathing room for everyone, you'll definitely both have a chance to make some new discoveries about where your relationship is headed.
Thanks for reading, Robby. Please write back and let us know how things work out!
There are a few things I would like to point out:
- Having no friends from work that you hang out with outside of work is a little odd. Work is a common ground which often forms friendships. The fact that you eschew any out-of-work contact makes you seem antisocial.
- You say that you have in-game friends that you "very rarely contact" outside of the game. So you do contact one or two via other means? Or has that been just to coordinate in-game activities?
- You say your girlfriend is a very different person, but in fact she seems to only have one friend that she contacts outside of WoW. Perhaps you also mean that she is more social in general?
Yes, I think it's very worrisome, and yes, I think you would be rather naive not to be suspicious. But I think you may be able to reduce the damage of Older Guy by engaging in more out-of-game social activities with your girlfriend. Perhaps you could allow yourself to make friends at work, hopefully with a couple so that you can all go out together. Or you might arrange more outings with current friends. Whether it's just the two of you or you're with a group, spending more time outside of WoW would be much better for your relationship.
Warning: Your girlfriend may at some point admit to having an online affair with Older Guy. I recommend you decide now whether that is a deal-breaker or not. If it is, it wouldn't hurt to form an exit strategy that is as drama-free as possible. I often find that if I have a way to escape from a bad situation, I am more relaxed about it -- even (particularly?) if I never have to use it.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 8)
Nagaina Nov 14th 2011 8:58PM
Pyro, being in a relationship with someone who has emotional attachments to others is pretty much a standard function of being human. It is, in fact, *inherently unhealthy, manipulative, and controlling* to expect your significant other to drop all of his or her other relationship/emotional connections with others in order to be with you. In fact, it's pretty damned emotionally abusive.
Pyromelter Nov 15th 2011 2:19AM
Nagaina, how the hell did you get that from what I just said? The above advice is only to be used when the SO is doing something very bad. It doesn't have to be cheating or hanging with someone else. It can be bad health habits, gambling problems, addiction problems, not spending enough time with your family, video game addiction, slacking on household responsibilities, not showing enough affection, or simply being a bit depressed or cold. It can be something where the person needs help, or it can be something where the person is hurting you or themselves.
No where did I state that one should "expect your significant other to drop all of his or her other relationship/emotional connections with others in order to be with you." In fact, not even close.
While I agree with your point, I just don't see where you pulled that out of my statement. I read above that you are married and have kids. Haven't you ever had to sit your husband down when he was doing something harmful (either to himself, you, or your family)? Haven't you had to do that with your kids? No one is perfect, things like this will happen. I was just trying to put some guidance on how to go about doing that. I would never ever suggest that he demand her attention and drop everything for him.
Pyromelter Nov 15th 2011 2:33AM
Hmm, i see it now. You pulled that out of my quote of what I would say. I live by the golden rule. I don't have platonic heterosexual close female friendships, so I expect that reciprocated. Most hot girls know the deal with guys, as they get hit on all the time, and anyone I date is going to be someone that is going to get male attention. This is not to say she can't have any male hetero friends. Work friends, social acquaintances, party friends, gamer friends, casual friends. Just none that are "close."
I have never been in a relationship with a woman that has had close hetero male platonic friends. And I'm not going to start.
If a girl wants to be a player, she can be a player. Just not in a relationship with me. That might be harsh, but if she feels the need to have backup boyfriends and orbiters, then she can date someone else that is okay with that (because I am not).
That all being said, aside from my rigid personal standards, the advice is solid and I stand by it.
Nagaina Nov 15th 2011 8:16AM
@ Pyro ~
"it's simply unacceptable to be in a relationship with someone who is forming a romantic or emotional attachment to someone else."
People form "emotional attachments" to others all. the. time. Friendships are, by definition, emotional attachments. What you're saying here is that, in order to be in a relationship with you, someone needs to refuse any other form of emotional attachment during the course of that relationship. That's pretty screwed up. And it's not a matter of respecting yourself or your own feelings -- it's a matter of desiring to control others and *their* feelings.
Rezina Nov 14th 2011 5:34PM
Not all workplaces allow people to have social relationships ourside of work. Mine has a strict no fratenization rule. We are not even supposed to add people who report or ate "underneath" us on the chain of command to Facebook.
feedback Nov 14th 2011 5:37PM
This has been such a one-sided discussion: the ball has been put in the girl's court. Gotta ask, is she even worth it if she's not doing whatever it takes to put the boyfriend at ease? If she's not fooling around, it shouldn't be that hard. She could get her boyfriend and older guy friend together, share what she texts about with him, etc. Not to say she should need to let him in on everything, but it sounds like she's the one who is creating the distrust.
Since she isn't putting out the fire, she probably doesn't value the boyfriend or the relationship that much. He may just want to move on. Plenty of fish in the sea and all that, especially as young as they sound.
MaboezEU Nov 14th 2011 5:43PM
I read into this that the couple are young, as do many people posting here. It reminds me of when I was at university having just split up with my girlfriend at the time and started with the latin and ballroom dancing soc. It was a way to meet new people, and to be honest, hopefully new women with which to form friendships that could lead elsewhere...
Anyhoo, there were also a few post grad members of the club - mostly men... and I came to the immediate conclusion that they were there almost specifically for the women. Sure they could dance, and did it well, but they also commanded a certain awe by the undergraduate women (let's call them girls). This also included one of our male instructors who seemed to try to be friendly with the girls also. The mixture of naivety by the girls and power by the men was quite noticeable. I was shocked to find that the instructor dude drove for 2 hours (in the UK, 2 hours is a reasonably long drive!) to turn up unannounced at one of the girl's house on a 'social' visit. This seemed very odd to me, and I could only guess that the dude was travelling that way to improve his 'friendship' to hope for something more. As it is the girl married another 'old' guy from the club (15 years) - she was someone who craved attention and that's what older single guys have in spades for the chance of a romp I guess.
So coming back to this, one of my opinions is that the gf and the Old Guy have done nothing together - she is young and possibly naive, he is old and horny and possibly grooming her (visiting, being nice, buying her stuff?), my guess that he hasn't made a move, though maybe he hints at it (being flirtatious) but she laughs it off. As time goes on, she may change. The worst thing is if the situation is handled badly from the OP pov - too forceful and she'll have some loving arms reaching out, to soft and she'll just ignore any suggestion that the guy is just trying to get in her pants.
(opinion based on not having all the facts!)
Muse Nov 14th 2011 6:28PM
How about we NOT call them girls? We are talking about legal adults, here.
Nadia Nov 14th 2011 6:06PM
Why is everyone assuming that the older male friend is sexually interested in Robby's girlfriend?
Is it possible that the reason the girlfriend's parents (especially if she is a minor) are OK with their daughter's close friendship with a man 20 years older than her is because he will never be interested in sex with her?
There are a few different reasons for this, but the first one that springs to mind is that he might be a gay fellow.
Other possibilities include him being related to her in some way. Is it possible she was adopted, or has an otherwise non-traditional family? Heck, it's even possible he's friends with her parents from college or something.
I know some of these ideas may seem far-fetched, but I've seen stranger things in this very column.
Pyromelter Nov 14th 2011 8:15PM
"Why is everyone assuming that the older male friend is sexually interested in Robby's girlfriend?"
Because he has a penis and drove 12 hours to see her.
All of your other things are laughable. No gay boy is ever going to drive 12 hours to specifically hang out with a girl. (Might he be friends with a girl, and in the neighborhood or visiting an area? Sure. But not just to hang with her.) If he was a relative or family friend, the gf would have made that clear to the bf, there is no reason to hide that.
As for the parents, well if the girl is naive, then the apple might not have fallen far from the tree, they could be just as naive if not moreso.
I appreciate your blissfulness nadia, but your statements just aren't realistic. There is a reason why the number one thing the internet is used for is porn. We're all horny, this guy is getting suspicious, and while there is some small chance this might be harmless, there is a much greater chance that the older guy and gf might be forming an emotional (if not physical) bond.
Nadia Nov 14th 2011 9:42PM
I'm not naive. I'm a married woman in my thirties, who has driven many miles in her single days to hook up with someone (and the reverse is also true).
I've also driven 12 hours and more to visit friends and family. So has my father, and both my uncles. I'm sorry you seem to think no man would ever do that if there wasn't a possibility of sex involved. At least you can't say I'm being a man-hater.
There are all sorts of situations where a "family friend" is actually an unacknowledged blood relation. The possibility of the older fellow being an illegitimate half-brother of one of the girl's parents springs to mind. So does something like sperm-donor paternity if the girl's father is infertile.
None of this negates the fact that Robby has to talk to his girlfriend to let her know exactly how much this bothers him, and why. The only way he'll ever get the truth is by direct and focused communication.
Nagaina Nov 15th 2011 12:21AM
Many of the assumptions in both the "advice" offered here and the comments below are predicated on particularly poisonous types of sexism, ones that afflict both men and women, both internalized and externally imposed.
Pyromelter Nov 15th 2011 2:37AM
Nagaina, I would agree that there are poisonous internal and externally imposed sexist assumptions, but likely opposite the ones that you are thinking of.
Pyromelter Nov 15th 2011 2:42AM
Nadia - yes, I agree you definitely are not a man-hater :-). I also don't think that being in your 30's and married means you are automatically prevented from naivete. Depending on how long you've been married, it may even make you more naive. The fact that you are making up some extremely wild scenarios for this case strikes me as apologetic and enabling. They met in-game, and if it was any kind of relation I would think the gf would be 100% upfront about it so it would be much more kosher instead of creepy as it seems to be.
Dan Nov 15th 2011 8:13AM
I have to agree with Pyro: I'm a gay dude and there's NO way I'd drive 12 hours to see someone that I'm not interested in romantically. Hell, there's no way I'd drive 12 hours for someone I AM romantically attracted to. If he's driving 12 hours to see the girlfriend, there's a damn good reason for it, and I'm guessing it's not to exchange baking recipes.
Nagaina Nov 15th 2011 8:32AM
Really, Pyro?
The assumption that a man can only be interested in a woman because he wants to get in her pants is a sexist assumption. The assumption that an older man can only be interested in a younger woman because he wants to get in her pants and there can be no other reasonable explanation for it is not only sexist it's fallacious on its face. The assumption that "Robby's" girlfriend is of course running around on him with an older guy is also sexist, as is the assertion that *she* has to *prove* that her relationship is platonic in nature -- because *of course* she can't possibly be telling the truth. "Robby's" stated impulse to try to forbid his girlfriend from communicating with or visiting with her friend is not only sexist fail, it's *relationship* fail. The Drama Mamas' "advice" is predicated on sexist assumptions about both the girlfriend and her friend and completely fails to call out the boyfriend on his inappropriate efforts to treat his girlfriend like an object he possesses not a person in her own right.
And, seriously, I feel extremely sorry for everyone in this comments section who doesn't have friends who'd be willing to travel to meet them -- or who wouldn't travel to meet a friend without the anticipation of sexual reward. That says something pretty damning about the state of our little "community" and its long-term health/ability to function socially.
Dan Nov 15th 2011 10:39AM
@Nagiana:
It may be a "sexist" assumption, but that doesn't change the fact that it's probably true. I don't think it's fair to call Lisa and Robin's advice "sexist" (if you've read this column for any length of time you'd know they're quite the opposite) when they're simply pointing out what is pretty obvious to most people: a man in his 40s or 50s driving 12 hours to see a woman 20 years his junior for purely platonic purposes is not exactly the norm, especially with travel being as expensive as it is these days.
On that note, a lot of people wouldn't travel that far to visit a platonic friend - especially one they met online - not because of a "fractured community", but because it's expensive. A 12 hour trip, even with a VERY fuel efficient car, is probably at least a full tank of gas, if not more. That's $40-70 dollars, just for one way. That's a pretty good chunk of some people's monthly pay right there. Not exactly worth it just to see a "friend" who you met through a videogame and can talk to on the phone or online any time for much less money. However, if there's an emotional or physical aspect to this relationship as others have speculated, it's not uncommon to see emotion override logic (and finances).
I don't think Robby is possessive as much as he is concerned (he actually didn't even mention the possibilty that she was cheating on him in the letter - he was more concerned for his GF's safety), and given how fishy this situation is, he has every right to be. Unless we're missing a piece of the puzzle here or Robby is portraying the situation as different than it actually is (which I don't think he is), assuming there's more to this situation than meets the eye is not sexist; it's common sense.
Does that mean the relationship is sexual? Not necessarily. It could be an emotional affair of sorts, and there is a chance that you're right and it's completely innocent. And the only way for Robby to find out is to talk to his girlfriend. But anybody who thinks being concerned about this situation is possessive or sexist is kidding themselves.
Dan Nov 15th 2011 11:23AM
*Edit: I meant 30s or 40s, not 40s or 50s; as others have mentioned, I think these two are young.
Also, Santa, please give WoW Insider an edit button for Christmas.
Aedaron Nov 14th 2011 6:16PM
How attractive is the letter writer? Maybe he could start working out a little more. Clearly he needs to do more to satisfy his partner because if she was getting it at home she wouldn't be looking for it elsewhere, certainly not from Grandpa.
Muse Nov 14th 2011 6:26PM
No kidding. I distrust any man who doesn't think his girlfriend is perfectly capable of making her own mature decisions, on principle. In fact, saying "no, I I don't trust this guy, you can't see him" is, in my world, grounds for immediate break up. While the letter-writer hasn't gone that far yet, it seems likely to end up like that if push comes to shove.
Drama Mamas, I agree with your assessments most of the time, but in this one case I think you're missing the jealous boyfriend angle a wee bit too much.