Lichborne: Analyzing patch 5.0 death knight talents
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Nov 15th 2011 at 2:00PM
As you probably know by now, Blizzard has drastically overhauled the talent system for patch 5.0, giving everyone a ton of automatic level-ups and then a choice between three talents every 15 levels. This week, we'll take a look at the talents they previewed for death knights at BlizzCon 2011: what they mean, how they work, what looks good, and what sort of sucks. As a reminder, these talents are all a work in progress that can and will change before patch 5.0 goes live, which could easily be over half a year from now. With that in mind, we'll focus more on mechanics and philosophy and less on math. Math can always be tweaked.
This tier brings us the return of two old favorites and a new utility move I've personally long desired. As a death knight tank, I've always been a little jealous of warriors for their ability to spread a debuff with AoE damage via Thunder Clap. Now, we have that option with Roiling Blood, which spreads Pestilence if Blood Boil hits a diseased enemy. Blood Boil provides some nice extra threat while spreading needed debuffs to a large pack of enemies.
The big problem is, however, that we have to give up Outbreak to get it. If you've been playing your death knight tank seriously, I probably don't have to tell you how important Outbreak is to our current play. Since we rely on Death Strike for survival so much, "wasting" runes to get diseases up can literally be a killer. It's the reason why Outbreak is going down to a 30-second cooldown for us.
We can apply the same issue to Corpse Explosion. Corpse Explosion here is a really nice AoE solution for unholy, which has needed one for a while, and it's just plain fun to blow stuff up like that. The problem, again, lies with Outbreak. While Outbreak isn't as essential to DPS death knights, it can still prove very integral to getting our top DPS. Since we don't have to waste runes on getting diseases up, we can use our heavy-hitting strikes more and cause more damage.
So for me, this tier is haunted by the specter of Outbreak. It's possible other patch 5.0 changes will make Outbreak more superfluous, but for now, it's hard to imagine not taking it on this tier, as the utility it provides would seem to outweigh the other two options handily. I'm hoping Blizzard relents and makes it baseline however, because I would love to grab me some Roiling Blood or Corpse Explosion.
The second tier brings us a variety of tanking cooldowns. You can either get Lichborne, which gives you some status immunity and the ability to heal yourself with death coil; Anti-Magic Zone, which gives you a much-needed raiding tank cooldown; or Bone Shield, which provides a nice, solid, long-lasting damage buffer.
Personally, as a DPSer, I'm taking Bone Shield, no question. First, having the iconic bone shield look back will be pretty sweet. Second, 20% damage reduction is just an amazing thing, and since I won't be face-tanking the mobs, it should last me a while. For tanking, I'll take it for similar reasons. A nice, consistent, 20% damage reduction is hard to pass up.
Lichborne will probably be a strong second-place contender, primarily for the Death Coil heal trick. Never underestimate the ability to take some pressure off your healers, especially since our self-healing has been significantly nerfed since our Wrath heyday. PvPers may take it for an extra get-out-of-CC-free card as well.
Anti-Magic Zone is there, and I can see people taking it for a raid cooldown, if it is what a specific fight or raid group needs. The big question is going be whether that damage reduction bubble makes up for the loss of self-defense from the other two talents.
Asphyxiate immediately draws attention here, but alas, it has been confirmed. It's not a long-term CC but instead a 5-second stun. That said, being able to act like Darth Vader and meting out a death knight version of Hammer of Justice on the enemy is nothing to sneeze at.
That said, Chilblains is going to be hard to give up. It's hard to beat being able to wrangle enemies with ease like that. If Glyph of Howling Blast still exists in some form and continues to apply Frost Fever, I can't see not taking it on my frost DPS, at least. I think you'll see most tanks and DPS take Chilblains here, with Asphyxiate as a strong runner-up. Death's Embrace, not so much.
This is the self-healing tier, and I think all tanks are just plain going to gravitate toward Vampiric Blood. The staying power and ease of use cannot be passed up for someone trying to stay alive while getting their face caved in.
For DPS, I think the choice will be between Death Pact and Death Siphon. What's interesting about Death Pact is that the current language on this talented version does not state that the ghoul targeted dies. If this is true, this might actually be a decent option for unholy death knights, especially. Your ghoul is already out, so just tap Death Pact and get a nice, large heal, then use Death Coil to heal your ghoul if worse comes to worse.
Death Siphon's downside is that it costs a death rune you could be spending on higher damage abilities -- and one that will be dearer to come by now that Blood Tap is a talent rather than a base skill. That said, it does do damage and (as of now) has no cooldown, so you can easily throw off two in a row to spend your two death runes and do more damage than you would have done spending that runic power on Death Pact. For my money, I think I'll be grabbing Death Siphon on my DPS DK.
Tier 5 may be the most elegant solution possible to the Runic Empowerment conundrum. Don't like it? Don't take it. I know I won't. No more rune tetris for me; I'll be choosing between Runic Corruption and Blood Tap.
The big issue here is whether you prefer more control or prefer to let it ride. Runic Empowerment and Blood Tap will give you more potential DPS, but you'll also have to know when to use your runes for maximum effect. If you don't, any potential DPS gain will be lost. Runic Corruption will be a nice, easy, passive DPS boost here, and while I think I may end up taking Blood Tap on my tank spec for the ability to generate runes in an emergency, my DPS spec will definitely be Runic Corruption.
This is the top tier for death knights, and I have to say I'm pretty damn happy for it. Ever since I first cast Death Grip, I've thought that I would love to have an AoE version. And here in patch 5.0, that is exactly what we get. I expect Gorefiend's Grasp will be the go-to choice for tanks on this level. Being able to pull in a group with two or three casters will be sort of god-like, and make tanking trash in both dungeons and raids (and maybe even the occasional boss fight with adds) a whole lot easier.
I could also see some DPSers taking this, if only as a way to help out their tanks. Just target your tank or your tank's current target, cast Gorefiend's Grasp, and there you go. It'd be a great way to make up for somewhat unskilled tanks in the dungeon or Raid Finder tools.
Still, I imagine most PvE DPSers will be going for Remorseless Winter. Not only do you get to feel like you're like the Lich King himself, you get a very solid AoE damage attack that ends with some nice stunning. In fact, I could even see some tanks who feel like they're already expert mob wranglers taking Remorseless Winter for that stun and the threat. This really feels exactly like what a top tier talent should be -- unique, useful, and with enough power and flavor to make us feel like the pinnacle of death knights.
Desecrated Ground is the third option here, and if nothing else, it might be picked up by some PvPers for the general crowd control immunity. It's also nice in that it provides some AoE shadow damage, but unless the numbers change (which, admittedly, they probably will), it won't really hold a candle to Remorseless Winter.
Overall, I'm pretty excited for this talent revamp, and I think the dev team's off to a good start with this first iteration. We'll see lots of tweaks though, I'm sure, and hopefully once the Pandaria beta is up, we'll all get invites and be able to test it all out for ourselves. Until then, though, I will continue to drool over the perfection of Remorseless Winter unashamedly, looking forward to the day I can use it myself.
Learn the ropes of endgame play with WoW Insider's DK 101 guide. Make yourself invaluable to your raid group with Mind Freeze and other interrupts, gear up with pre-heroic DPS gear or pre-heroic tank gear, and plot your path to tier 11/valor point DPS gear.Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
krislen Nov 15th 2011 2:47PM
There has already been some math work done on RE/RC/BT, RC comes ahead in rune return rates quite handily.
Zaet Nov 15th 2011 2:51PM
Sim math is really unreliable as it doesnt take acount most factor like what rune it generated, what srtike follows, if rime is up u sue Obli if not use FS and wait off the obli, and skill of course. Skill matters the most.
krislen Nov 15th 2011 2:58PM
You might want to actually read what I said, as it stands RC with it's steady rate of return will give more runes than either of the other two options, RE and BT will not be able to compete with the return of the other 2 even if you used them to the fullest effect.
Othgan Nov 15th 2011 2:59PM
@Zaet: Exactly, which is probably why RC is best since it affects all runes.
rapsam2003 Nov 16th 2011 1:19AM
And Blood Tap will probably give more dps, if used properly. So, don't go all "RC is always best". It isn't and won't be. Though I think everyone can agree that RE is crap.
Zaet Nov 15th 2011 2:47PM
I really like the DK talents more than other clases, they look like the most balaced and more usefull and more thought was put in them and perfect interaction between DPS and bloo, unlike shaman and paly that looks like they took the mos powerfull talents of the trees and put them togheter
I really hope they change tier 1, giving up OB would suck adn giving up the other 2 suck to.
But with all the changes , how do u think mastery will interact with it? or be removed? or what?
for frost remorseless winter with frost a high mastery would rock but not so for UH.
Death shipon is nice for frost also, as we have perma death runes. But for the other 2 spec it requires more timing.
For me mastery and this new talent sistem have a weird intercion, some for DK but more for other clases, like elemental shaman and their talents, boy thats weird.
Camo Nov 15th 2011 4:41PM
"they look like the most balaced"
What?
Tier 1: Outbreak - no costs
Tier 2: AMZ as a raid CD vs. Bone Shields personal damage reduction.
Tier 3: Stun vs. Slow - Burn down or Kite
Tier 4: Vampiric Blood - no costs, low CD
Tier 5: RC - no RNG, beats the other two as pointed out
Tier 6: Remorseless Winter - more damage on lower CD, Gorefiend's Grasp pulls friendly (?)
Not to say the other classes are balanced - they aren't and never will be -, but most have more situational usefull talents.
GhostWhoWalks Nov 15th 2011 3:13PM
I'm psyched to get Corpse Explosion back, and now that it has the added bonus of refreshing my diseases on all affected targets? Murderous. I really hope they roll Epidemic http://www.wowhead.com/spell=81334 into Unholy's base passives or even the base timer for the diseases so we can get plenty of time in between kills to keep those DoTs up.
I'll primarily be taking Death Siphon over Death Pact because it adds another ranged attack to our arsenal. Right now, I can maintain some ranged DPS on distant enemies or bosses who have teleported out of range with Death Coil and Sudden Death procs; with the addition of Death Siphon, I'll also be able to spend Death Runes on ranged damage, which will then generate Runic Power, which means I'll have even more Death Coils to throw. It'll be like I'm a Hunter, in plate, tossing around blasts of dark magic; how awesome is that?
I'm really hoping Desecrated Ground gets a damage buff, because I'd rather take that than Winter, assuming our masteries stay the same; with a boost to all the shadow damage I deal, Desecration will scale better than Winter, and it would suck if the ideal level 90 DPS talent didn't synergize with my mastery.
Fa110u7 Nov 15th 2011 4:09PM
O man tier 6 makes me tingle =D
omedon666 Nov 15th 2011 4:10PM
It's very possible that the "all runes for DS" element of DKs won't survive the MoP transition, since they want to expand the "active mitigation" ethic, making the OB choice of tier one less cut and dry.
If they are going back to LK style dungeons, I can see roiling blood being an invaluable tool for trash.
Furthermore, if I recall, OB is still on a one minute cooldown, in this iteration, and roiling blood is a refresher of diseases, of even a single target, for a single blood rune. There may be a point where the difference between the two choices (as it relates to "death strikes dealt") is so minimal that they really are just flavorful options, as is intended.
Now, if they ever tie DS's effectiveness to diseases-on-target again... that's another story.
As a non-raiding, blood tanking 5-man (and eventually PVE scenario) lover, roiling blood is just too awesome for my priorities and playstyle to pass up.
rapsam2003 Nov 16th 2011 1:27AM
"It's very possible that the "all runes for DS" element of DKs won't survive the MoP transition, since they want to expand the "active mitigation" ethic, making the OB choice of tier one less cut and dry."
That's a fair point. However, it's always to your benefit to have diseases up. So, since Roiling Blood actually requires you to have a decent sized pack of adds, you won't take it except on maybe 5mans or fights like H Rhyolith 25man, where you happen to be the fragment tank. (Because having my Blood Boil automatically spread diseases, as opposed to having to work out diseases and then use Pestilence is a pain.) But for most fights, where you generally don't deal with a lot adds as a tank, you will probably pick up Outbreak.
Abraxuss Nov 15th 2011 4:45PM
i too want Outbreak to be baseline, at least at later levels (85+). i don't want to spend two valuable runes applying diseases -.-
Ama Nov 15th 2011 4:55PM
Great, now do this article but for PvP. It might make me stop wishing for a guest writer so we can get some more PvP balance in this column.
I'm worried a bit about tier 2, having to choose between lichborne and AMZ. AMZ kinda got nerfed in Cata with a damage cap. whislt the cap still made it worth it for solo use or perhaps 2v2 and 3v3 in larger groups on battlefields of if a whole raid is relying on it it becomes kinda useless. Lichborne is essential in PvP so there doesn't seem much reason for AMZ in PvP anymore which is a shame because it was one of our more prettier abilities that made us feel like DK's.
I'm glad corpse explosion is back. I'm taking that just for the cool factor. But also outbreak isn't too helpful in PvP. Will save you an unholy rune but you still need to use that frost rune for chains and that still becomes a two gcd effort to get them up.
Nobar Nov 15th 2011 5:05PM
I do not like that they make us choose between Asphyxiate and Chillblains. IMO, asphyxiate should be made into a glyph (giving up on Darth Vader is just too much to ask of DKS). Also, goodbye RE (and good riddance).
Rangen Nov 15th 2011 6:37PM
I personally will not be choosing Gorefiend's grasp for my tank for a few simple reasons. First, there's the fact that it does not taunt the target, and a 20 yard range won't always extend as far as we need it to. Secondly, the same way that you've been waiting for our version of the rend - thunderclap combo, I've been waiting for our shockwave, and remorseless winter is just what I asked Santa for. I might choose Gorefiend's grasp for my dps for the sake of convenience, but probably not my tank.
totemdeath Nov 15th 2011 6:49PM
/cast asphixiate
/say 'I find your lack of faith.....disturbing'
palooka Nov 15th 2011 7:26PM
god dammit the tier 2 and tier 4 is killing me, i feel like i need vampiric blood or death's pact i cant choose 1 or the other, and the same goes for bone shield and lichborne, whats the chance of them tweaking it for at least tier 2 b/c every dk right now has the ability to use deaths pact
ZodiacDragons Nov 15th 2011 9:39PM
For me (as a dk tank) its going to be
Tier 1: Outbreak. I would like Roiling Blood but I think Outbreak is too essential.
Tier 2: A little indecisive here. Kinda leaning towards Bone Shield, but Self-coil has saved me so many times in the past. Will be hard to give that up.
Tier 3: Since Asphyxiate isn't a CC, I'll be taking Chillblains for the slows.
Tier 4: Most likely Vampiric Blood, but I will miss Death Pact.
Tier 5: Runic Corruption without a second thought.
Tier 6: I'll be taking Remorseless Winter. Gorefiend's Grasp does look very appealing tho.
Saraff Nov 15th 2011 9:43PM
Anyone else look at Remorseless Winter and see the old Unholy Blight?
smbcomix Nov 15th 2011 11:53PM
I love me some Remorseless Winter too. Give me my LK/DK ability, dammit! XD
...And next Expac, add Defile!