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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news1,000 guilds have killed heroic Ragnaros
by Mathew McCurley 
Nov 16th 2011 at 7:00PM
Interestingly, 76% of the heroic Ragnaros kills have been completed in 10-man raids, with 24% of the kills in 25-man groups. Ten-man raiding has certainly made endgame raiding significantly more accessible, and 25-man only guilds seem to be struggling to keep their numbers as high as they once were, especially when the 10-man versions of the encounters are more accessible.
While 2% is a vastly larger number than the old days of endgame raiding, the content is still out of reach for a huge amount of the raiders and raid groups out there. Heroic content is meant to be the hardest of the hard, and these numbers reflect that. Hard should not be impossible, however, which is why we are seeing such a disparity between 10- and 25-man kills. Raiding at the 25-man level requires a commitment from more people, and the wrangling involved just adds to an already complicated encounter.
Nonetheless, it's good to see raiders raiding and content actually being completed, as opposed to the old days when content was only made for a very select few people. Hopefully, one day the numbers will be higher as to better justify the creation and facilitation of more hard-mode encounters as well as even better raids. Firelands was a marked improvement in raid design over Bastion of Twilight and Blackwing Descent, and it's good to see the numbers reflect that.
Thanks again to GuildOx for the numbers and statistics. Here are some other awesome articles to check out featuring GuildOx's data:
- Most popular Horde and Alliance character names, by race
- Most popular WoW character names, by class
- The world's most experienced boss-killer
Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
gewalt Nov 17th 2011 1:28AM
I'm 4/7h with my alli guild, 3/7h on my horde guild, and 1/7h on my alt-alt raid group.
Are you really sure there aren't many other people like me?
DragonFireKai Nov 17th 2011 2:30AM
Yes, you are in a tiny minority. One that is going to shrink drasticaly once the next patch drops and we leave behind this stillborn tier.
26% of guilds downed heroic Shannox pre nerf.
33% of guilds killed heroic Halfus
27% of guilds killed heroic Marrowgar.
25% of guilds killed heroic beasts.
22% of guilds killed XT HM.
The absurd number of groups pushing into heroic firelands since september 21st is an abberation.
tonetheman Nov 16th 2011 8:30PM
No my comment here is that it is a tiny tiny tiny percentage of people who see that content compared to the rest of wow. I have only recently started raiding and the content is amazing. But the whole thing smacks of frustration in that the content is insanely hard and only a few will see it. Minus the obvious youtubes and walk-throughs.
Blizz has an odd balancing act of keep content hard for hardcores and yet somehow let non-hardcores see new content too. It is a weird place to be in.
I can tell you that I quit WOW before when I hit 85 and could not figure out a good way to continue really. The content before 80 to 85 is insanely easy and the content at 85 is completely jilted the other way. It is still doable and that is the point but there is not much between and the average or casual player gets left behind...
The original comment from the article seemed so out of touch with the average player of WOW who cannot and probably will not ever see that content. So the number is way low as far as I am concerned.
noel mcleod Nov 17th 2011 11:45AM
You and I will see Rag the way I saw Arthas. I saw Arthas at lvl85 with 220K of health and way better gear than the people who actually downed him at level. And that's on normal mode! I'm OK with that, though I'm not OK with the entitled attitude of the majority of the raiders who think that this is and should be ALL the game is about. Someone in this thread commented that they have cut back to raiding two nights a week, three hours a night. I will probably play WoW 8-10 hours this week, but the biggest single chunk will be an hour in which I will hope to squeak in a heroic 5-man. (Easy to do if you don't get any idiots in LFG, but ...).
Tailspin Nov 17th 2011 3:17PM
You seem to be confusing content and difficulty.
The dungeons and the bosses (content) are available in two difficulty setting (three when LFR is implemented).
A tiny amount defeated the last boss of the hardest difficulty... there is nothing wrong with that.
A much larger amount defeated that same last boss and saw the same content on normal difficulty.
Fweet Nov 16th 2011 8:31PM
Maybe the numbers are right, but for a different reason. Cataclysm was, well, let's just say "not a roaring success." That only a thousand guilds have defeated heroic anything indicates, at least to me, disinterest, rather than difficulty.
In my experience, the difficulty arose when the most experienced raiders I know/knew decided to finally uninstall.
Stilhelm Nov 17th 2011 12:50PM
The story is that so far 1,000 guilds have defeated heroic Ragnaros. Much much more than 1000 guilds have defeated "heroic anything". There are many thousands of guilds like mine who are 6/7 heroic. We haven't tried H Ragnaros yet, although we probably will at some point. We're under no illusions, though.
As for more casual raiding guilds, many many thousands are at least 6/7 in normal Firelands. The content is accessible. Even if you can't defeat the end boss, you can still get there and see it.
Also, it's not like it was in ICC, where the very casual guild I was in at the time could not kill Lich King, but if we pugged someone who had, we could do several hard modes. In this tier, if you can't kill Ragnaros, you probably aren't going to be able to do any of the hard modes either.
Elboogieoogie Nov 16th 2011 8:34PM
Blizzard has no control over the human aspect of World of Warcraft. Obviously the hard mode encounters are, well, hard, but it's the forming and logistics involved in the human element of the game that's the bottleneck for most (particularly in 25 man raids). With the introduction of the raid finder in 4.3, we are likely to see the percentage of players who complete the raid on at least one of the difficulties significantly increase.
I really want to go off ranting about the sense of entitlement and expectations for instant gratification that is running rampant -- especially here in the US -- in the younger generations; but, alas, that post must wait for another day.
Revynn Nov 16th 2011 9:00PM
/sigh . . . 6/7 Heroic and the rest of my guild just gave up on H-Rag progression.
Any of those 2% need a 385 warlock about to finish his Legendary?
Kael Nov 16th 2011 11:11PM
Heroic Ragnaros, like all the heroic-mode end-bosses, isn't designed to be beaten. Not really. It's there to occupy you long enough for the new stuff to come out; even though this game is all about farming bosses, not just downing them once, Blizzard obviously doesn't want you to feel like you've "beaten" the game and have nothing to do. There's always that last challenge to conquer, impossible as it may be for you and your team.
Not that I necessarily agree that it's the best way to go about it, but I understand.
noel mcleod Nov 17th 2011 11:48AM
Well said and very true. The challenge is to make it at least LOOK possible.
johnny86 Nov 16th 2011 11:49PM
Another potential reason for their being more 10-man kills than 25-man (in general, not just Rag) is that most fights are easier in 10-man as you have more room to spread out and work with because there's 15 less people there.
Skarn Nov 17th 2011 12:25AM
It doesn't bother me that the Heroic instance isn't being cleared by very many people. That is expected. I'm more interested in how many people are clearing Normal or in the next patch, Raid Finder. Heroic is specifically designed to be hard and so it's expected that a very small portion of people will finish it. How about Normal Ragnaros? How's that looking?
LeftVentricle Nov 17th 2011 12:36AM
I don't really care if heroic/hard modes are so challenging that only a few people get there. It feels great to finally beat that seemingly impossible obstacle. It takes a lot of practice, perseverance, and sacrifice to get to that level. And that is ok. What's not ok in my book, is if regular modes were tuned the same way. I used to raid hardcore (though not for very long, only about a year), I just don't have the desire to do so anymore. I would still like to see content, and I would still like others to see content.
Rag with legs is for the most skilled, and most practiced of us to beat. That's plenty cool with me.
Elzam Nov 17th 2011 12:58AM
By 10 mans being "accessible" we mean "significantly easier," right?
A guild that hits their head on Heroic Ragnaros for months in 25 man can easily split into 2-3 10 mans and clear it in a week.
Stilhelm Nov 17th 2011 1:20AM
Why do so many people say "25-man raiding is almost gone, everyone is doing 10-mans"? Because 24% of the 1000 guilds killing H Ragnaros are 25-mans, doesn't seem like that many, right?
240 * 25 = 6000
760 * 10 = 7600
So roughly 44% of all players that killed H Ragnaros did it in 25-man raids. Sure, "most" are doing it in 10-man, but the disparity is not as much as you think, and 25-man raiding is apparently far from dying.
Garwulf Nov 17th 2011 1:28AM
Ya...Blizz decision to make 10/25 man raids have the EXACT SAME LOOT has KILLED alot of 25 man groups...I DONT CARE if it makes it more accessible..I LIKED the LARGER FORMAT!!...THANK YOU CASUALS for screwing up a game I like YET AGAIN!!...GO DIE IN A FIRE....play your LoL and leave RAIDING to the SERIOUS players.You cry and bitch about the cost of a Sub. vs what you can get out of it. LEARN TO PLAY BETTER you SCRUB.Or stick to the F2P Garbage!
gewalt Nov 17th 2011 1:31AM
whats stopping you from enjoying the game in the 25m format? nothing?
then stop bitching.
Paul Nov 17th 2011 2:27AM
If you honestly feel this is true, Garwulf, then you should be blaming the players, not Blizzard. Blizzard give players the choice, players are choosing 10 over 25.
However, as people have pointed out, the number of characters doing both are quite close.
Fun fact, if you take an equal number of players, send half to do 10man and half to do 25 man, guess what? Yeah, you end up with fewer 25 man guilds, but the same number of people doing them. Bravo!
Killik Nov 17th 2011 5:32AM
You clearly know fewer than 24 'serious players' who are willing to raid with you. It would probably help if you were less of a ranting stereotype.