Encrypted Text: My rogue wish list for Mists of Pandaria

We learned a lot of information about Mists of Pandaria at BlizzCon 2011. The early talent trees were released, and so we have a rough idea of what we'll see at level 90. We don't know exactly what abilities we'll receive as part of choosing a talent specialization, but it's assumed that we'll see most of our former talents returning.
While we do have some information, we're still missing pieces of the puzzle. It's likely that we'll receive new abilities in Mists of Pandaria in addition to the talent system revamp. Any predictions about what might happen are purely speculation, but there's no harm in talking about what we'd like to see. I have a list of abilities and ideas that I think fit with the rogue theme, and I'm hoping that I might see one of them implemented in Mists of Pandaria.
Death Grip needs to be shared
I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but I really think that Death Grip is too powerful for only one class to have access to it. There exists a subset of abilities in WoW that are so unique that they're always valuable, and Death Grip is one of those abilities. If you look at similar spells like Typhoon and Leap of Faith, their value is obvious. Moving targets around is a very special type of action, and I can think of nothing better to give rogues some value outside of DPS.
I think it's perfectly possible to give rogues their own version of Death Grip without breaking the game's balance. Yes, every rogue will be able to pick up Shadowstep in MoP, and I understand that coupling Death Grip with Shadowstep would be overpowered. Our enemies actually need to have some slight opportunity to survive our attack, and that requires being able to create some distance.
My idea would be either putting Grip of Shadow on a shared cooldown as Shadowstep or putting it on the same tier as Shadowstep in our talent tree. Who wants Deadly Throw to be clogging up our talent tree anyway? Grip of Shadow would synergize immediately with Smoke Bomb, allowing us to set up complicated combos. The only issue is that when a death knight uses Death Grip, it also taunts their target, which is logical. I have an idea for that too.
Rogues could taunt, too
Would it really be so wrong for rogues to be able to taunt? Shaman are able to taunt via Rockbiter Weapon and Unleash Elements, and they've never been a tanking class. Rogues were actually able to use bucklers back in WoW's beta days, and we have a plethora of cooldowns that allow us to reduce our incoming damage for a time. I'm not talking about designing rogues to tank, as I know there are plenty of rogues who would love for the combat tree to turn into a tanking tree for us.
I just want to be able to exert more control on our targets. The ability to taunt and to control threat can be very powerful when used properly, and we're the only melee class that can't taunt. In fact, even a few of the healers are able to taunt. With Vanish and Tricks of the Trade already on our side, rogues could become masters of threat. If we actually picked up Grip of Shadows, then allowing that to be our taunt ability makes even more sense.
I want Displacer Beast
After reading through the talent previews for each class, there was only one talent that caught my eye. Druids will have the option to pick up Displacer Beast, which teleports them 20 yards away in a random direction, removes all DoTs, and puts them into stealth. I would love to see a glyph for Vanish that gave it this behavior, as the functionality sounds fun.
I do have to say that the latest Vanish incarnation is still awesome. Because we're guaranteed to stay in Stealth for a few precious seconds, many of our gripes with it have disappeared. The only situation where it's not perfect is when we're covered in DoTs and we don't want to reengage immediately. The current Vanish works great if we're going to reopen on our target, but sometimes we want to run away. Displacer Beast is the perfect answer for that scenario.
Non-dagger off-hand weapons rule
You know me, I'm a sucker for a rogue with two huge axes. I love the imagery of double maces and swords, and there's something powerful about watching a rogue with dual fist weapons beating someone up. While the current itemization trend looks to rule out any chance of a quick sword or axe for our off-hand in Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria is another story.
With the introduction of the monk class and the radical rebuild of our talent trees, it would be the perfect opportunity to align the agility-based melee classes to prefer a quick off-hand weapon. With enhancement shaman, windwalker monks, and rogues all vying for the same quick weapons, Blizzard could easily justify their itemization. Monks might be good for rogues after all.
What would you love to see for your rogue in Mists of Pandaria?
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Diop Nov 16th 2011 9:42AM
"Grip of Shadow "
Whilst I know you were mostly just spitballing a name, and I know Rogues have some 'shadow' use I don't think a spell effect similar to Death Grip would be good. If they were to go with this I think it would be better to use a hook on a chain and then a yanking spell effect, similar to an abomination but a bit fancier.
jordan Nov 16th 2011 9:54AM
I'd rather have a Scorpion style "Get over here!" Than a shadow grip style thingy.
Haenf Nov 16th 2011 11:21AM
Maybe 'Harpoon' or a Batman-esque grappling claw (would fit with the Deathwing tier gear too)? Shoot them through the leg and pull them out from underneath them, dragging them over to you where they arrive on their back leaving them momentarily without any defences?
Narlic Nov 16th 2011 11:27AM
You know, this is a fair comment. Rogues are tied into "the shadow" via a number of lore-like descriptions in their abilities. Harnessing it, moving through it, wrapping ourselves in it. They make it sound a lot like it's the same stuff shadow priests connect with. It would be interesting to work that in, where not only can we step through, but we can bring things with us or to us.
OMG. Bring things with us... I just had an intense idea. Grab the tank, and BAMF him into the mobs. Holy crap that would be amazing! Or grab a mob and BAMF both of you to the tank...
vocenoctum Nov 16th 2011 4:15PM
You know, I thought "rogues really don't need Death Grip, it doesn't fit thematically" until you put the image of batman throwing the line and dragging someone back to him.
Add in the poster above that'd like a heroic leap which I now see as a batline and it all fits.
Guess it's not so much that something doesn't fit, as using the right way to describe it so you can see how it fits. :)
Helston Nov 16th 2011 9:49AM
Unfortunately I don't think a death grip for rogues would work. It is an interesting idea, but it's such a signature death knight move that it'd have to be radically different for death knights not to lose any flavour in their own.
The other problem with death grip is that it doesn't thematically fit in with rogues. Even ignoring the fact there'd have to be some way to bring the target over to you (and further ignoring the 'rogues use a hint of magic) the problem is that, like us warriors (yeah, I play a warrior an ny rogue is an alt withering away in his 30s) rogues are about goin out and doing the dirty work themselves. You poison your weapons, sneak around the front line, select your victim and swiftly send them to their maker. It's all about getting up close and personal before letting it all pay off and simply watching your target fall to their knees. In this shadow step works well, because it essentially cuts out the middle man of you having to sneak around the front line. My warrior is similar to this, except warriors lack the subtlety of a rogue, preferring brute strength.
Death Knights on the other hand are much more in-your-face, I'm-the-one-that's-killing-you, you-will-die. That fits perfectly with Death Grip and their mindset of being as utterly offensive and as downright painful as possible. They will let you run and think you've gotten away only to bring you back to square one. They will send you through your own personal hell, and what better way to do that than bringing you to exactly where they want you to be.
Although the idea for a taunt is interesting, and does fit both in both thematically and as a useful utility. The only problem is you wouldn't exactly want taunt as an 85-90 ability, as you really want to get something special and new.
Thank you for the good read!
Bumblebee Nov 16th 2011 10:04AM
Some kind of Grip actually would be a perfect fit for Rogues. Some kind of Kusari-Gama is probably a better way to make the visual of it. Here's a picture of it: http://www.monstercommute.com/wp-content/uploads/kusarigama.jpg
Your target is trying to run away. You throw your kusari-gama and pull them back, then make the kill, or you pick up your target from a pack of mobs walking past you without the others even noticing it, kinda like how Batman often does it.
Still think it doesn't fit the theme?
Bumblebee Nov 16th 2011 9:52AM
I haven't really thought about Taunting, but that's actually not a bad idea. This would allow us to gain and drop threat when necessary. Our control over NPCs would be pretty awesome. Imagine 1st Taunting, then Tricking a Tank or another DPS to move the mob in a very specific way. I kinda like this.
As for Death Grip... Well, currently our mobility tree has Shadowstep and Burst of Speed to provide great mobility and very powerful gap closers. Both can be used defensively very well too. What is Preparation doing in that tier? Preparation isn't a mobility tool, it's our Reset-button. Currently, if you plan your actions you have no reason not to pop everything on Prep before using it. This greatly diminishes the value of the CDs. Also, the abilities affected by it have to be balanced around Prep. This runs the risk of PvP being balanced around this one ability for the 3rd expansion in row. This doesn't even take into consideration the fact that if such mechanics as Find Weakness, Master of Subtlety and Overkill survive into MoP that makes Prep a very powerful DPS CD as well. This is counter to the design.
Preparation needs to either be baseline or - and this is a far better solution - our CDs need to be balanced around not having it at all. Preparation needs to go.
That would leave us with ShS, BoS and possibly something like Grip for our Mobility/Gap Closer tier. It would be an actually hard and interesting choice to make.
Khirsah Nov 16th 2011 3:22PM
Well said! And I agree completely.
Get rid of prep, but shorten the cooldowns on the abilities that it affects to compensate. It would involve some more decision making on when to use cooldowns.
I would also like to see ShS to friendly targets. I don't think it makes the ability OP, but it adds another layer of strategy. "Should I ShS to the mage that is nuking me and try to burn him down, or should I ShS to my teammate that is near a pillar so that I can break LoS with the mage and re-enter stealth?" With something like that, you wouldn't need prep for the extra vanish, you'd have to use skill and strategy and timing and decision making; all the things that playing a rogue should be about.
Texicles Nov 16th 2011 4:28PM
I take a little issue with the taunt thing, insofar as it further blurs the lines between hunters and rogues. When I played a hunter in BC, it never really bothered me that the rogues could pull huge numbers, as long as I got things like Distracting Shot (taunt), Misdirect (threat redirection) and Feign Death (threat dump). Those weren't necessarily essential, but the mastery of our own threat was good flavor for the class.
When rogues got Tricks, sure, I grumbled, but assented that it was probably necessary if they were designing threat mechanics to require that sort of thing. What really stung was seeing two rogues just use Tricks on each other to share the damage boost and ignore threat redirection altogether, leaving the hunters to continue with the MDs with no advantage for them.
I know this is a wishlist, and I don't mean to complain, but I would rather see rogues back on top of DPS than see them stay where they are but gain more abilities from another class.
Khirsah Nov 16th 2011 5:09PM
@Texicles...
It's funny how we always forget that other classes have shared their abilities with us as well. I didn't even think of that MD vs. Tricks thing when I was complaining that Hunters were getting Camo.
I guess it's only natural to only think of the awesome things your own class used to have all by itself, but now has to share with a few other classes.
Thanks for the reminder. :-)
blazenor Nov 16th 2011 9:57AM
When you go stealth so do your mount and which time the mount takes the same movement reduction.
Hobstadt Nov 16th 2011 10:36AM
What movement reduction? Last time I checked, rogues move FASTER in stealth.
Matt Nov 16th 2011 10:00AM
Grip of Shadow is a pretty terrible name. I know Rogues have some "shadow arts" moves, but they aren't a magic class, which is the image that name invokes. An animation similar to Scorpion's wire would work with the class, though. Like the abominations with their hooks and chains.
lethian Nov 16th 2011 11:32AM
Silent Snare
Edymnion Nov 16th 2011 10:15AM
How about a different approach to moving characters around that is already in the game? While working on my Paladin I ran into ettins in Twilight Highlands I think it was that had a throw ability that would flip you over their backs and throw you back a ways. That could be cool for a Rogue to have. Grab your target, do a back roll, and send them flying away behind you. Maybe add a second or two of stun like Charge has to keep them over there for a bit while you deal with more important things.
Another big ability I'd like to see? Ninja leaping. There are quests in Icecrown where you control a jumping robot and a geist where you have an ability to target an area and leap directly to it. Was great for scaling walls and cliffs with. Would be very nice to get that as a rogue ability, to go with our other ninja like powers.
direbadgercvlry Nov 16th 2011 10:31AM
Combat tree=tank, there's already talents like Reinforced leather in there might as well just make it official. Could be fun having an energy based tank, could be overpowered as a resource but it'd be nice for some rogue love from Blizz. But my primary wish though, is being able to shake the stigma that because I enjoy playing Subtlety, I can't raid with viable numbers. Shadowstep and Killing Spree in my talent spread would be awesome!
Hobstadt Nov 16th 2011 10:32AM
Displacer Beast should also break stun and all other effect on us. Including Faerie Fire. And it should not share a cooldown with Vanish.
Also, we need a new poison that puts on DOTs that can't be removed and prevents all healing for 10 seconds. Then we can poison a player, pull displacer beast, run back, finish them off and then Vanish if they had friends. And then repeat with the next player.
Actually, Rogues should get an ability called Murder. The one used by Garona to kill Lhane. You backstab someone from stealth. They die. 30 min cooldown. Doesn't work on bosses or elites.
Honestly, can we stop with the Rogue vs. other classes arms race now? Rogues kill others in PvP easily, other classes whine, other classes get countermeasures , Rogues whine that it's too hard, Rogues get better, other classes whine etc.
We have been doing this since Blizzard gave out the first PvP trinkets to give people the impression that they won't automatically die from a stun, back in 2005.
Rogues are better and more fun to play now that they ever have been, and more powerful and harder to kill. Let's leave it at that. K?
Docp Nov 16th 2011 10:39AM
"but we're outclassed in literally every way by a feral druid in PvE."
Well...except damage, where a Rogue spec is either top or second top melee damage for both raid sizes, normal or heroic, overall for firelands and on baleroc, whereas feral pretty much circle the bottom of the pack with enhancement, unless there's a lot of mobs to be swiped in which case they might come out in the middle.
Besides which, how will any of these really help you in PVE, none of these will particularly make you want to bring a Rogue to a raid more than now, especially not a taunt which I would worry might get abused, all these really only have PVP ramifications.
Edymnion Nov 16th 2011 4:52PM
How about because the article is about things we wish rogues had?
I don't like PvP, I don't PvP. I transferred my rogue off of a PvP server to a PvE, and if there was a "Under no circumstances will one player ever be able to attack another" server where even dueling was prohibited, I'd transfer there in a heartbeat.
Screw PvP balance. I don't care if rogues do a million dps in PvP or 3 dps, it doesn't affect me in any way. But give us something for raid utility, PLEASE!