Spiritual Guidance: A shadow priest's first look into the Raid Finder
by Fox Van Allen 
Nov 16th 2011 at 1:00PM
Let's start off today's column with a question to you, the reader: How did you get your start raiding?
Me, I got my start in the PUG raiding circuit of yore. Someone would spam trade chat with their need for one ranged DPS for whatever raid instance happened to be in fashion at the time. I'd whisper them, hoping to snag that elusive slot (and believe me, as a DPSer, that slot was very elusive). Generally, I had no idea what I was doing while in the raids. I knew not to stand in stuff and to target whatever had the skull over its head.
I was a pretty lousy PUG raider. Let's face it -- we all were. PUG raids aren't known for their rates of success. Which is why I was intrigued when Blizzard announced its new Raid Finder system, coming in patch 4.3. Could Blizzard have found a way to make PUG raiding ... bearable?
The few, the proud, the 68%
Leading raids is a pain. It requires skills and patience that I frankly don't have. And I know a lot of you are the same way -- it's part of why we chose the DPS role in the first place. We like being important to a raid. But we don't necessarily want the pressure of being the make-or-break component. We want to be part of the 17 of 25 who queue as DPSers. We are the shadowy 68%.
That said, every raid needs a competent leader -- a tough-as-nails 4% type. One figure to unite us all. One person to take the responsibility. Failing that, every raid needs a generic leader who at least shows up and goes through the motions. It's a pretty important aspect. Raid encounters have a lot going on. Leaders help make sure their raiders are on the same page and doing what they're supposed to be doing. They're the glue that holds a raid together. You can down a boss with 16 of 17 DPSers, but if you go zero for one in the leader department, you're screwed, my friend.
This is where the Raid Finder tool breaks down. You don't get glue. You get that crusty paste that toddlers stick pieces of construction paper together with, if even that. That's not to say you can't wind up with a skilled leader. I'm just saying you probably won't.
I speak from experience.
That terrible first attempt
After waiting a solid 12 to 16 hours for all the patches to be applied to my PTR client, I decided to hit the brand new Raid Finder to get the shadow priest's perspective. After all, I needed something to write about this week, didn't I? After a mercifully short wait, I was invited to join an in-progress group that had downed two of the eight bosses.
Now, for those of you familiar with the PUG raiding circuit, you know what it usually means when a group is looking for new members when just two bosses are downed: It's a raid on life support. People are quick to give up on bad groups.
Against my better judgment, I joined the raid. I was immediately sent to the deck of The Skyfire, and two minutes later, I had engaged my first boss in the Dragon Soul raid. Here's a screenshot of that first attempt:
Raids are inherently different from heroics. They tend to be more focused on bosses. And they also tend to be more difficult. Most players can go in and fake their way through a heroic. It's a lot harder to fake your way through a raid.
The Raid Finder tool is going to be filled with players who are curious about raiding but have yet to dip their toes into that particular pool. That's cool -- I think it's great that players are experiencing new content in new ways. But the problem is that the Raid Finder is an unforgiving mistress. They've reduced the difficulty of the Raid Finder raids, but they're still hard. Players are going to wind up wiping a lot, regardless of their own personal skill level.
And if there's one thing players don't find fun, it's failure. These new players are going to hate raiding.
Experience 2: Warmaster Blackhorn
My second encounter put me in the middle of a group attempting Warmaster Blackhorn. It's very much reminiscent of the S.S. Lootship fight back in the Icecrown Citadel raid, but with an actual boss (eventually) that needs to be DPSed.
This group was blessed with a leader who at least took the time to bark out general instruction: "Ranged DPS, attack the drakes." "When the boss yells, stand in the purple." Crude directions, sure, but they were all that we needed to avoid massive casualties. We downed the boss on the first try. Sadly, the group fell apart after downing the boss. Even though we got just one boss down, though, it felt like an accomplishment.
I didn't feel incredibly useful during that fight, even though I probably was. There's a lot of target switching, and as a spec that requires a bit of a ramp-up time, each time I switch targets I feel like my DPS is suffering. With more experience, I'm sure I'll be multi-DoTing adds like a pro.
Experience 3: The Maelstrom
My third experience put me in a group battling Deathwing at the Maelstrom. It's your typical final boss in an RPG fight -- the villain descends even further into madness, with his body decayed and corrupted to match his mind. It's pretty epic stuff. And, as you can guess, pretty difficult stuff to conquer.
The fight has a lot of different mechanics that add to the "fun" of the fight. You get your own bonus defensive cooldown that reduces the damage you take (briefly) by 50%. The dragon aspects give you a number of buffs, including a haste buff. At most times, you have two targets present, allowing you to multi-DoT. Specifically, as a shadow priest, I felt powerful.
There were a lot of things going on during that fight that your average player will have to know about to be successful. You need to know what tentacle to DPS and when. You need to know what platform to be on. You need to DPS the party-wiping Elementium Bolt, or at least know to get out of the way of it. You need to switch targets. You even need to interrupt Deathwing when he attempts to call forth a second Cataclysm.
Ultimately, my group failed to beat Deathwing. It fell apart to an irreparable extent after the second wipe. I guess that means that "all was lost." Oh well. If at first you don't succeed, queue in the Raid Finder again.
General advice
Unfortunately, my Raid Finder experience was rough enough that I wasn't able to complete a full raid, start to finish. Still, I was able to see a large variety of content, and I did get some bosses downed. That in mind, here are some of tips learned through my own personal experience with the Raid Finder:
- Press Shift + J and read the Dungeon Journal! It has valuable information about all the new raid bosses. You don't have to be an expert, but you do owe it to your fellow players to know at least something about the fights you're going to attempt.
- Once a PUG raid starts to fail, it's next to impossible to rescue it. Players get frustrated and leave. Others stay, but develop bad attitudes. For this reason, I generally advise against joining raids that have already downed bosses.
- If you're going to use the Raid Finder tool, you'll be more successful if you put your own group together. Obviously, getting 25 people is ideal, but even if you can only muster 20 or 15, you'll still be starting with a solid foundation of people who you know.
Fixing the Raid Finder
I'm not sure that the Raid Finder in its current form is the best of ideas. Even with a good leader, raiding is difficult. And though content is easier when experienced via the Raid Finder, it's still not easy. Groups are going to wipe.
And ultimately, therein lies the problem. PUG players typically have a sense of entitlement to a smooth, difficulty-free run. We don't want to be thrown into a wipe-filled, four-hour Throne of Tides heroic. We want the 20-minute flawless cruise through the instance. We'll tolerate some failure here and there, but we're not going to bang our heads against a wall --especially when you can just ditch the strangers you're with and find a new group at the push of a button.
Raiders generally have a higher tolerance for failure; the wipe is an integral part of the raiding experience. But when you start throwing random people into the mix, something about the raid dynamic changes. Mistakes are more forgivable when you already know and are friendly with the person making them.
This version of the Raid Finder will fail, because it's not what the players want it to be. Players using it aren't going to want a raid-type experience. They're going to want a heroic-type experience. And that means only one thing: For this Raid Finder to be successful, the difficulty level is going to need to be nerfed through the ground.
Are you more interested in watching health bars go down than watching them bounce back up? We've got more for shadow priests, from Shadow Priest 101 to a list of every monster worth mind controlling and strategies for raiding Blackwing Descent.
Filed under: Priest, Raiding, (Priest) Spiritual Guidance, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Duroas Nov 16th 2011 1:21PM
There ought to be a feat of strength for clearing Dragon Soul LFD in one sitting with no one wiping without a preconstructed core of raiders, where no one leaves early. Putting 25 PUG raiders together in one place with no guaranteed leader or experience and expecting people to "practice raiding" (wich means, usually for progression guilds and groups, 'wipe a few times until you understand the mechanics and go for real) Is nothing more than an ideological dream when the average pug is looking for a carry through with no accountability.
rapsam2003 Nov 16th 2011 1:35PM
And that's the problem. People should stop expecting to be carried in this game. It's just flat-out not acceptable. Work at your stuff like the rest of us.../facepalm
alapin Nov 17th 2011 5:03AM
There are times carrying is needed, and other times it is not. If your a tank being healed by a decently geared healer while your wearing PVP gear and PVE DPS gear as your tank set, chances are the group isn't going to want to carry you after the fourth pull. Similarly if your wearing lots of gear with hit as a healer, a tank is going to oust you (at least both situations are things I do as heals/tank). If your in an important roll, you need to gear right and be expecting not to be carried. Those who only DPS will never fully understand the concept of pulling your own weight and making the right choices in your gearing and such in PUG environments (this comes from a person who pugged 7/12 ICC back in the days as a lock).
All in all my advise to everyone is to do research on any class/role you intend to partake in for the raid finder, make sure your items are for the correct environment (as in your wearing full PVE or less than 3 pieces of PVP), come with your gear enchanted/gemmed/reforged (when applicable as not all items have to be reforged or they can't be in some cases) so that you can bring your A-game to every encounter performance-wise. After that, simply read up on the encounter, be prepared to shell out on repairs from the 20+ wipes you are about to receive, and be happy you get to enjoy something that was typically very hard to accomplish in older content.
Sarabande Nov 17th 2011 8:16AM
While I don't think people should be carried, there are people who just aren't experienced. And never will be, without the chance to try out the content. They can read the journal and watch the videos but there's nothing like actually DOING the fights to really learn it. (And sometimes reading the strats and watching the videos without experiencing the fight can actually be a bit daunting). Does it help to do research? Sure. But even the hardcore raiders know, you don't just go in after watching a video and one-shot bosses on every fight. It sometimes takes several tries, and that's in a group with coordination, reliable skill and history of ability to work together, voice communication and a strong, knowledgeable leader. What would it take for a group without all that? (At work or in sports or other activities, how much does reading alone help, as opposed to actually trying it and figuring out what to do, where pitfalls lie, how to correct mistakes and handle unexpected situations and variations? I have always advocated hands-on training at work for that reason, as well as providing instructional hand-outs).
And believe it or not, not everyone knows all the internet resources. YES, there are players who just go in to the game and expect that everything they need to know is RIGHT THERE (which isn't entirely unreasonable). I point out various sources that might help players with questions or whatnot, but it's not as much of common knowledge as everyone seems to think. For casual non-raiding or rarely-raiding people (some of which you'll meet in the raid finder) it's not always a given to do research outside the game. They just try to figure it out as they go, because they don't know where to look, or that they are even SUPPOSED to. They aren't stupid or necessarily lazy . . . they just don't have the skills, experience or maybe even the reflexes you might expect in raiders. And yet, the less experienced are the ones that often get the boot, and either never learn the fight because they aren't given the chance or are afraid to keep trying because of the attitude that somehow, they have to be near perfect, otherwise they are being "carried."
I don't want people hanging back and going AFK and auto-attacking everything, and not even trying. That IS being carried. If they come in with the attitude that they don't even HAVE to try, yeah, that's wrong. But I've just heard nightmare stories from people who DO try, but struggle with certain fights and either give up PuGging, or just get soured on that sort of content altogether because they've been unceremoniously kicked or have been made to feel so bad, they don't want to try anymore I don't think that was the intent of the LFD tool.
And that's the biggest problem with the Raid Finder . . . you put those groups of people together for . . . what?? As Fox pointed out, this will just frustrate new raiders (those who excitedly thought that FINALLY, they would get to raid, but genuinely has no idea as to how difficult it is) and they'll be frightened off from raiding. No one likes to fail and it feels worse to feel like you've failed the whole group - especially when the whole groups makes not bones about it. And you get the seasoned raider who (also quite reasonably) expects that people will at least somewhat know the fights and understand raiding environments, and they will become frustrated by the newbie raiders. Those groups don't mix, unless it is a group of understanding friends trying to help others to learn to play better.
The real solution is for everyone to communicate and try to have patience, If people don't know the fights, you can point them to the Journal (they may not even know it's there!!) or briefly explain the fight before the bosses. It will also take strong and patient leaders who take that job seriously. It will take the rest of the group to be able to follow instructions and work as a team, and be patient while the fights are explained or while raiders read the dungeon journals. People who don't completely understand the fights should say so. But they should also feel SAFE to admit that they don't know, rather than try to fake it lest everyone try to kick them or berate them.
TonyKP Nov 17th 2011 10:14AM
Beautifully put, Sarabande.
Eranwolf Nov 16th 2011 1:27PM
This is a shame. As a casual player now but previously a raider I was hoping for something where I could hop on one night and see the end content and get some gear. I have no issue with wiping etc. but this sounds like masturbating with a cheese grater. Slightly amusing but mostly painful!!
clundgren Nov 16th 2011 3:15PM
What part of that experience would be slightly amusing?????!
vincentmagius Nov 16th 2011 3:59PM
You'll probably want to wait a few weeks. This happens every time something new gets introduced.
1) New expansion/dungeon/raid
2) People wipe for various reasons, complaining that it's too hard.
3) People gain gear and experience. Blizz nerfs the expansion/dungeon/raid
4) People are usually more successful at finishing. Some who fail continuously try to get carried. Others demand harder content.
5) Go back to 1.
Skyrei Nov 16th 2011 7:06PM
Unfortunately. Its very likely that many many people will have to have cleared the raid previously before you start to see any cohesiveness in LFR.
Well.. the "easy" bosses anyway.
I dont doubt in the starting phases of LFR that when you join a raid through LFR you will be told that "We're only doing This Guy and That Guy and thats it."
rapsam2003 Nov 16th 2011 1:32PM
The simple solution is to join a raiding guild. Yes, I know a lot of people don't have time for that. Well, here's your consolation prize. Plus, consider that a lot of people will learn the fights in a month or so. It may be rough every patch for the first month, but I predict it smoothing out by then.
Moladun Nov 16th 2011 1:54PM
"Not having the time" is an excuse. There are plenty of good casual raiding guilds. In my guild, we have zero attendance requirements. We make a group out of who shows up that night. Sometimes we have 2-3 extra people who have to sit, sometimes we're 1-2 short, but generally, people get to raid whenever they want to.
Note: we do 25man raids, which works well for this type of guild. I would not recommend trying to do this in 10mans.
rapsam2003 Nov 16th 2011 3:38PM
@Moladun: Of course it's an excuse. And no, it doesn't work for 10s. But the type of player who wants to go into LFR and be carried is also the guy who will go, "I don't have 10 minutes to research the basics of my class" or "I don't have 5minutes to read the dungeon journal". In other words, the guy who's too lazy to find a casual guild (and might be too lazy to learn how to do decent dps).
clundgren Nov 16th 2011 3:20PM
Yeah, I think the raid finder will be pretty rough for the first month or two, until a critical mass of users have a decent knowledge of the fights, and are geared up a bit more. Then it will get better and better, until by the end of patch the forums will be full of complaints that the raid finder shows how Blizzard only caters to casuals.
Look at Firelands currently. It is pretty routinely puggable; I've taken part in a GDKP run that downs Rag on a weekly basis while doing some bosses on heroic. We're only about 4 months into that patch.
Edymnion Nov 16th 2011 4:28PM
Show me a raiding guild that accepts the player not the class (as in, no "You need to be X spec with Y build and Z glyphs to raid with us") that isn't elitist in thinking they're hot shiat, that will actually say "Oh hey, you can't make it for the next two weeks? Okay, your slot will be here when you get back." and I *MIGHT* consider joining a raiding guild.
Until that fantasy comes true, I'll stick to my non-raiding guilds, thank you very much.
Emophia Nov 16th 2011 5:03PM
Moladun I'm in a 10 man guild that does basically the same thing, it works perfectly fine and I love it, I don;t see why you say it wouldn;t work.
moladun Nov 16th 2011 5:58PM
I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said I wouldn't recommend it. IMO 25s work better for casual guilds, assuming your GM and recruitment officer can keep your roster at the right level.
In a 10, you generally need to pay at least rudimentary concern for raid comp, in a 25man, you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to do what you need to do with who you get. (especially if several of you are alt-o-halics)
In a 25, whatever drops can generally be used by someone, which makes people generally happier than showing up to a raid and seeing stuff get repeatedly sharded.
Considering you're just hoping people show up, and generally later in the tier people get bored and stop showing up, if you plan on doing 25 and don't have enough people, you can break down into 2 10s or worst case a single 10. In my guild, on scheduled nights, there's ALWAYS a raid. Also, we can have a bench of people without people feeling they get sat out every other raid.
@Edymnion: My guild is exactly like that, and I'm sure we're not the only ones. I'm assuming that it's against the rules to post a link to our website or I'd link it. I'd suggest either trolling the wow recruitment forums or put up a post there stating what you want, and review the pages of guild spam you'll get.
sarah Nov 16th 2011 6:00PM
Edymnion - our guild is primarily a raiding guild, where if people go missing for two weeks they are eagerly welcomed back. We have 12 raiders for a 10-man, with enough people having alts and off-specs that we can fill in where needed. When four of us had to be out for a fortnight the guild just went *shrug* "okay, real life comes first" and pugged to fill the slots. We're raiders, we can run Firelands normal in a single night, but we're not heroic raiders. If you're OK with that, the guilds are out there.
Creid Nov 16th 2011 1:32PM
Does anyone else think a 10 man version would be better? Less afk and griefers possibly?
gymboy91 Nov 16th 2011 2:16PM
The raid composition for a 25-man raid is much more similar to the proportion of people who play the different class roles. You also have a better chance of getting all the raid buffs and utility covered with 25 random people instead of just 10.
I think this is what Blizzard's reasoning was.
Skyrei Nov 16th 2011 7:18PM
You could never run a 10 man version and a 25 man version at the same time. 25 man queues would go to the mooooon. 10 man queues wouldn't be any better...
You would have a similar problem with queues for dungeons.. not enough tanks/healers
10 Man: 25 Man:
2 Tanks 2 Tanks
3 Healers 5 (or 6?) Healers
5 DPS 17/18 DPS
This keeps the queue times lower. Sure you're more likely to run into undesirable people of all shapes and sizes... but you're going to be waiting considerably less.