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11-16-2011 @ 1:21PM
There ought to be a feat of strength for clearing Dragon Soul LFD in one sitting with no one wiping without a preconstructed core of raiders, where no one leaves early. Putting 25 PUG raiders together in one place with no guaranteed leader or experience and expecting people to "practice raiding" (wich means, usually for progression guilds and groups, 'wipe a few times until you understand the mechanics and go for real) Is nothing more than an ideological dream when the average pug is looking for a carry through with no accountability.
11-16-2011 @ 1:35PM
And that's the problem. People should stop expecting to be carried in this game. It's just flat-out not acceptable. Work at your stuff like the rest of us.../facepalm
11-17-2011 @ 5:03AM
There are times carrying is needed, and other times it is not. If your a tank being healed by a decently geared healer while your wearing PVP gear and PVE DPS gear as your tank set, chances are the group isn't going to want to carry you after the fourth pull. Similarly if your wearing lots of gear with hit as a healer, a tank is going to oust you (at least both situations are things I do as heals/tank). If your in an important roll, you need to gear right and be expecting not to be carried. Those who only DPS will never fully understand the concept of pulling your own weight and making the right choices in your gearing and such in PUG environments (this comes from a person who pugged 7/12 ICC back in the days as a lock).All in all my advise to everyone is to do research on any class/role you intend to partake in for the raid finder, make sure your items are for the correct environment (as in your wearing full PVE or less than 3 pieces of PVP), come with your gear enchanted/gemmed/reforged (when applicable as not all items have to be reforged or they can't be in some cases) so that you can bring your A-game to every encounter performance-wise. After that, simply read up on the encounter, be prepared to shell out on repairs from the 20+ wipes you are about to receive, and be happy you get to enjoy something that was typically very hard to accomplish in older content.
11-17-2011 @ 8:16AM
While I don't think people should be carried, there are people who just aren't experienced. And never will be, without the chance to try out the content. They can read the journal and watch the videos but there's nothing like actually DOING the fights to really learn it. (And sometimes reading the strats and watching the videos without experiencing the fight can actually be a bit daunting). Does it help to do research? Sure. But even the hardcore raiders know, you don't just go in after watching a video and one-shot bosses on every fight. It sometimes takes several tries, and that's in a group with coordination, reliable skill and history of ability to work together, voice communication and a strong, knowledgeable leader. What would it take for a group without all that? (At work or in sports or other activities, how much does reading alone help, as opposed to actually trying it and figuring out what to do, where pitfalls lie, how to correct mistakes and handle unexpected situations and variations? I have always advocated hands-on training at work for that reason, as well as providing instructional hand-outs).And believe it or not, not everyone knows all the internet resources. YES, there are players who just go in to the game and expect that everything they need to know is RIGHT THERE (which isn't entirely unreasonable). I point out various sources that might help players with questions or whatnot, but it's not as much of common knowledge as everyone seems to think. For casual non-raiding or rarely-raiding people (some of which you'll meet in the raid finder) it's not always a given to do research outside the game. They just try to figure it out as they go, because they don't know where to look, or that they are even SUPPOSED to. They aren't stupid or necessarily lazy . . . they just don't have the skills, experience or maybe even the reflexes you might expect in raiders. And yet, the less experienced are the ones that often get the boot, and either never learn the fight because they aren't given the chance or are afraid to keep trying because of the attitude that somehow, they have to be near perfect, otherwise they are being "carried." I don't want people hanging back and going AFK and auto-attacking everything, and not even trying. That IS being carried. If they come in with the attitude that they don't even HAVE to try, yeah, that's wrong. But I've just heard nightmare stories from people who DO try, but struggle with certain fights and either give up PuGging, or just get soured on that sort of content altogether because they've been unceremoniously kicked or have been made to feel so bad, they don't want to try anymore I don't think that was the intent of the LFD tool.And that's the biggest problem with the Raid Finder . . . you put those groups of people together for . . . what?? As Fox pointed out, this will just frustrate new raiders (those who excitedly thought that FINALLY, they would get to raid, but genuinely has no idea as to how difficult it is) and they'll be frightened off from raiding. No one likes to fail and it feels worse to feel like you've failed the whole group - especially when the whole groups makes not bones about it. And you get the seasoned raider who (also quite reasonably) expects that people will at least somewhat know the fights and understand raiding environments, and they will become frustrated by the newbie raiders. Those groups don't mix, unless it is a group of understanding friends trying to help others to learn to play better. The real solution is for everyone to communicate and try to have patience, If people don't know the fights, you can point them to the Journal (they may not even know it's there!!) or briefly explain the fight before the bosses. It will also take strong and patient leaders who take that job seriously. It will take the rest of the group to be able to follow instructions and work as a team, and be patient while the fights are explained or while raiders read the dungeon journals. People who don't completely understand the fights should say so. But they should also feel SAFE to admit that they don't know, rather than try to fake it lest everyone try to kick them or berate them.
11-17-2011 @ 10:14AM
Beautifully put, Sarabande.
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