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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Are players becoming too entitled?
by Matthew Krotzer 
Nov 17th 2011 at 8:00AM
WoW has been around for quite a while. We've seen years of advancements and improvements to the game, from abilities and talent overhauls and quest and encounter design improvements, to vast quality-of-life improvements like the Dungeon Finder, Real ID chat and the Mobile Guild Chat and Mobile Auction House. With all these added features, more and more players seem to take them for granted.
With ongoing requests for the removal of the raid group restriction for low-level raids, suggestions of various ways and means of using the Dungeon Finder to access outleveled dungeons, and even the complaints about "easy mode" versions of raids in the upcoming Raid Finder not providing achievements and legendary weapon quest items, more and more players seem to want more from Blizzard while expending less effort on their end.
Perhaps the playerbase has undergone a major shift, just as Azeroth has in Cataclysm. Maybe I've just never fully adjusted to the new paradigm since I began to play during vanilla WoW -- or maybe you darn kids should get off of mah lawn!
Has it gone too far? Is Azeroth as a whole nothing but a staging area from which we should expect to be instantly transported to wherever we wish to go, or are we still willing to enjoy the journey to our destinations? Is a modicum of human interaction too heady a task to enjoy raid content, no matter its level?
It's hard to say. What are your thoughts?
Filed under: Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 8)
MattKrotzer Nov 17th 2011 2:46PM
@Mr Crow:
It's easy to make a contrary argument when you change the terms of the deal. The gear IS the reward and the incentive for the work. If you say that the fun is the reward, then we can get rid of all gear upgrades, and nobody needs any gear ever.
It's a silly argument.
Matt Nov 17th 2011 4:00PM
@ vai - i must have missed your point, indeed...i would never for a moment imagine that someone would ever consider an activity effortless, even if it is leisurely. all leisure takes effort, bud.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effort
i direct your attention to definitions 2. and 5. unless you derive great pleasure from sitting in SW doing absolutely nothing at all, ALL THE TIME, then whenever you strike out into the world, for questing, dailies, what have you...it's effort. if you try your hand at something...ever...it's effort. pressing all those keys and letting your brain meats process and react to what's going on on your screen? effort. plain and simple. why do we do that in the game? because it rewards us with loot, titles, silver/gold, achievements, and all kinds of other crap that makes you going out there and investing your time in WoW worth it. where does your "fun" come from? accomplishment. how is accomplishment measured in the game? see above. whether or not you deign to "recognize" effort doesn't mean it doesn't exist in regards to playing the game. your argument fails.
moreover, a lot of people DO play to earn prestige in the game, whether it's within their small group of friends, their guild, or the interwebz at large. especially those that play heroic and hard content! they love to brag about it! why do you think people post youtube videos of them doing crazy stuff, or their latest heroic kill? why do you think they hang out with their epeens out in front of the bank steps and AFK while sitting on a flaming dragonhawk thingy? it isn't for their health, that's for sure.
"Neither should be "rewarded" over the other because they're both done for the sole reason of personal enjoyment."
finally, the reasons WHY they engage in the activity are moot! it's the HOW they engage in that activity that determines the proper rewards! that's the point of this whole to-do! people are entitled because they want more for doing less, not because they like to relax and enjoy themselves! you're mixing up your points here, but no matter how you cut it, matt's right on - it's a silly argument! you can't claim you're entitled to stuff you didn't put in the work to get. that's life....now go to home depot, buy some tools and mats, build a bridge, and get over it.
manxome Nov 17th 2011 9:08AM
Overall decisions are made to maintain and grow the player base...and that's not a bad thing as more players = more revenue = more development.
Yet, unless I'm raiding, there is no sense of peril in the game whatsoever. And that is what I miss - a sense of peril, of discomfort or inconvenience when things go wrong. This, in turn, encourages me to solve the encounter perhaps in a different way, or to dig deeper and learn about some spell combo or cooldown or strategy that has not yet been necessary.
I would encourage all players, as they are leveling, to dedicate their level 70-71 and 80-81 time in the Heroics. I found that, in that environment, we are still overpowered, but things are just a touch more technical and some of our tried-and-true strategies that worked 100% well from 1-69 don't work as well...a cooldown is needed here and there, or a change of strategy for an encounter. THAT is the game I fell in love with 3 years back and am anxiously awaiting its return.
I do wonder, though, if my personal experience in the game contributes the lion share to that "lack of peril" and I have talked to those newer to the game who really have found the magic about this. Some do feel a sense of peril and some do not. Both groups, however, have found something they love about Azeroth and I suppose that's the name of the game.
My wish for the new expansion would be to encourage players to play the heroics and maybe someday have heroics to optionally visit at levels 40 and 60! Or use the nifty 'dungeon challenge gear normalization' feature to allow me to normalize my level 85's gear so I can run BWD and heal for a friend who is running it at level. Or introduce "XP Draining Shoulders with a 10-15% XP LOSS that permits my alt to fully quest in a zone and soak up the story. Or introduce a "Hard mode Neck Piece" that normalizes my gear just enough to tune questing and/or regular dungeon encounters to an older standard.
As a long time player, I have found a lot of the game that I used to love on my alts to be rather blah and consequently I have not seen all the wonderful work put into the post-Cataclysm Azeroth. Some 'hard mode' gear pieces using existing in-game features would go a long way for increasing this particular player's enjoyment of the rest of the non-raiding game.
perderedeus Nov 17th 2011 9:19AM
It isn't just "WoW" or "America" -- it's more of a "first world" problem than anything else. Entitlement is a result of having many, many amenities at our fingertips. We get a taste of doing something "easy" and it starts to overtake us. Why go to the grocery store when you can shop online and have it delivered? Don't flip through a newspaper, just read a website -- or have a digest of your favorite stories delivered right to your email. Why go to the music store when you can, again, go online and have it delivered to your door... or even just download it directly. Why mail a letter, send email! Forget cashing a paycheck, use direct deposit!
These are all conveniences, but they subtly lead to wanting *everything* to be more convenient. Add to that the fact that games are traditionally seen as a mix of challenge and fun with a potential for reward... and then the need to keep people subscribed to your MMO... and it is one gigantic snowball effect. To keep people paying, you need to keep them playing, and to do that you need to give them an incentive... and not just a "carrot on a stick" but something they feel they can reasonably achieve. Players are getting better at determining just what is an unreachable goal, again the "carrot on a stick" and they'll more readily say "no thanks" to it.
So I won't say that the reward system(s) in WoW are good or bad... they're a bit of both. In whole, they're good for Blizzard's business. They're bad because they do sort of muddy the game design, what with things like the "Pet Battle System" being put in to keep players entertained -- does a high-fantasy faction-rivalry MMO truly need a Pokemon system?
nadra Nov 17th 2011 9:25AM
Of course they are becoming entitled? what did do you expect after the way theyre now handheld all the damned way by this game. the whole original point of raiding was to provide suitable challenge for thos eplayers who had what it takes to be the best of the best. the rest of the server pop would look on those ppl who were good enough to raid and only dream that theyd be good enough themselves one day, raid content was the hardest content in the game and to defeat it you needed to be at the very top of your game those who werent had an incentive to improve, those who couldnt improve were scrubs and didnt deserve to raid anyhow.
now we got a situation where blizz are saying "aww some of the poor lil guys cant beat our content but others can? guys we need to make it all inclusive so nobody feels left out ppl need to get a gold star and a pat on the back just for taking part now even if they suck even if they fail cos theyre too lazy and retarded to bother learning. its the right PC thing to do"
so they nerf the current FL content down into the damned ground just so poor wittle timmy wimmy and his 24 numbnuts friends can play in the same playground as the big boys and feel good about themselves!
its like me working my ass off in a job to get promoted and then the company saying "oh heck what if the slackers feel left out? best promote all them as well just so we got some equality" eventually u just feel entitled to promotion whether or not u deserve it.
Catsmeow Nov 17th 2011 10:00AM
nadra, I would like to agree with your sentiment, but I can't get on board. It could be from my unique POV. I am sorry the FL nerfs made the content too easy, too quickly for your tastes, and honestly, I wish there was a way to turn off that nerf so that when you and yours go stomping through FL normal you would have that same sense of entitlement. But, for me and mine, it took that nerf to get us where we are now. Does that mean that we were not in there everyweek, as often as we could, trying to down those bosses - no. Does that mean that we weren't running trollroics and the previous tier for valor and those last couple of pieces - no. We worked at it too, and for whatever reason (and let me tell you, we had a couple of doozies this tier), it didn't work for us. Did I ask for a nerf, no, but I am glad we got one. You want to have different gear than me, well, there is still heroic raiding, and I will never have the admittedly beautiful gear from that unless I start getting nostalgic.
I don't want this to come out as an extended rant...but those nerfs that made the normal edition too easy for you made it so my guild could succeed together - after putting in hard work. And yeah, some of those fights are laughably easy for us, too.
lilywillylover Nov 17th 2011 10:13AM
You sound bitter.
Sunaseni Nov 17th 2011 12:00PM
To be precise, the "wittle timmy wimmy" is bringing in 9 of his friends, not 24.
And really, whether other people get to raid or not doesn't affect you. Unless, this is mere hypothetical, you were last place in your raid and were sat out for said timmy wimmy because the raid could afford replacing dead weight with someone who was either more fun or someone equally unskilled so it didn't matter who to bring. This is mere hypothetical, as the only reason I could think of to hate so much more accessible content. It probably is a long ways off, but all I'm saying is that, if it doesn't personally affect you, how other people are able to enter the raid means nothing.
(If you had argued instead that it made Firelands boring, you'd have a point, but you didn't argue that now, did you?)
Bob Dewane Nov 17th 2011 9:26AM
I think Blizz is doing the best they can as they try to keep an ever-growing percentage of the player base at max level happy. When I started playing just after BC came out, it took effort to get to max level. Gold was harder to come by. Group quests meant you needed a group. No dungeon finder ususally meant no dungeons at lower levels as it was dang near impossible to put a group together.
Now you can level exclusively through the dungeon finder, only needing to leave town to level your professions. You can level through BGs. You have heirlooms and the RAF bonus levels to power you through to max level at light speed. The mantra of "the game starts at 85" has, I believe, become a curse to Blizz. People who are just picking up the game don't get the chance to bask in the glory of Azeroth as they level because xp nerfs to leveling push them through too fast. The xp nerfs happened because the players who were at max-level and had "finished" the game needed something to do so they rolled alts. Only they didn't want to suffer through the grind that was leveling. Xp needed to level gets nerfed and xp granted from kills and quests gets boosted through the aforementioned heirlooms and RAF bonus levels. It is a concotion that can potentially be lethal to the aspect of the game called "fun".
In the end, I think Blizz is doing their best trying to control the monster they created. As the old addage says, "You can't please all the people all the time." I commend Blizz for doing as good a job with the game as they do.
Scooter Nov 17th 2011 9:37AM
Yes many are. They are spoiled. They want to spend less time and get more reward. Thats why we have super-short dungeons now. (Damn you Angry Birds!!!!) Personally I hate it. I feel it has absolutely killed many potentially good RPG experiences for me because developers can now substitute a "quest" system in place of an actual world. The only game I've ever seen do it half right was Arc the Lad 2 (there were others but I cant remember them after 15 years).
I just completed Borderlands, which is another quest-driven game, a few days ago and honestly I want my money back.
Maybe I'm the entitled one. I want long games with stories, world maps, and secrets to explore and uncover. I read an article somewhere that the next FInal Fantasy game may end up being an full blown action RPG because "that's the way things are trending towards these days". Really?! If that's the case then why do the largest buyers of video games still remember games from 3rd generation consoles as the best they've ever played and everything else keeps getting worse?
So whose really the entitled person after all? Me who wants quality in games and the experience or the younger generation (who is getting their way) that just wants pretty graphics and a mindless task they can do for an hour and call it an accomplishment?
StClair Nov 17th 2011 2:36PM
@Scooter:
I understand and even sympathize a bit, but really, it's not "the younger generation" (a perennial scapegoat since before we had plumbing, let alone computers; see other comments) driving this. If anything, the issue is that WE are no longer "the younger generation."
When I was young, I had little money but lots of time to play all those classic games that I and, I suspect, you love(d). This was even more true during the unemployed period a few years back in which I started playing WoW. Now that I'm an adult with a full-time job, that equation is reversed: enough money to buy any game I want, but no time to play them all. My days, much of my evenings, and even some weekends are spoken for. Case in point: I haven't bought Skyrim, and probably won't for months, because I haven't even started Fallout New Vegas. I have a long queue of games I bought cheap off Steam that I haven't even touched, because my schedule's full of the ones I'm already playing on a regular basis.
I'm fond of joking that these days, for me at least, the "40-60 hours of gameplay" on the box of your typical console or computer RPG isn't a promise so much as a warning. That figure means that I can expect to invest most or all of a month's gaming time in that one game. That's not a commitment to be undertaken lightly.
I've been known to gripe about kids on my virtual lawn as much as (or more than) anyone, but in this case, it's not just them - it's also the man in the mirror. The one who would, increasingly, rather just watch a Let's Play highlight reel on Youtube than sink weeks into something that's supposed to be entertainment.
Mortenebra Nov 17th 2011 9:36AM
Okay... I've read over some of the comments and, really, all I can do is just make a stand-alone reply of where I'm coming from. And, when you think about it, that's the whole point: every person's POV is fairly unique, which often generates the problem in WoW.
My guild understands we're not going to get world or server firsts; hell, we may not even get server 100th. We carve out four hours out of the week to try and raid. Lately, we've been successful. But when real life comes knocking and says, "Ossarian needs to be out of town for a week to complete a class," or, "Smorc and Claw need to work OT and will miss raid," we have to comply. Does this mean we may not get shiny firebirdies before 4.3 or even 5.0? Probably.
Maybe it's my server community, or the fact that I love the people I'm guilded with to bits... But others with Tarecgosa's Rest or Pureblood Firehawks don't bother me. That's great for them. Sure, they go AFK in Orgrimmar atop [shiny new ride goes here], and we get to drool over it, say our "ooh"s and "aah"s. I'll get mine eventually one day, perhaps. And when our mage started the legendary quest chain, we joked that we'll eventually complete it in three or four expansions.
We're content. We understand our position and where we stand as a casual raiding/social guild. But we're not complacent. It's not that we've given up, but we keep our eye on the prize while making sure we don't obsess over it so much that we lose sight of what matters the most: having fun and being around people to whom we entrust our virtual lives. When we get into a raid, we're serious and work hard at the encounter, but we're not at each others throats. Even those who don't raid in my guild are content to see the guild as a whole thrive. They don't have the time or can't match our raid times due to real life but I don't think I've ever heard them utter a single complaint about the game-- let alone about the guild or otherwise.
And when we finally get there-- like we did with LK with the buff only at 10% or 15%-- it's absolutely exhilarating. It's all about the journey and the people you're traveling with. I'll admit it now: I'm pretty darn lucky to know the people in my guild and they're a blessing unto me (most days ;P).
It's the same sort of philosophy in real life. Just because you saw someone speeding down the freeway in a Porsche or Ferrari doesn't mean everyone's supposed to have one. I'm happy with my fully functional G6 and grateful that I have a car to begin with. Would I like a newer, faster, shinier car? Sure, someday, but I'm not worried about it.
So, to answer the question... I'm not entirely sure.
On one hand, yes, it often feels like there are a ton of entitled people in the game: the people who try to outsmart the /afk system in BGs by hopping every so often in a corner, but complain if the team's losing; the ones who join high level guilds and ask when they get a spot or when they get to take out things from the guild vault immediately; the ones who think that the mere fact of them logging onto the game is a blessing unto Blizzard, the server, and other players.
But should the game feel like going to work? Or an endless grind for [insert shiny here]? Probably not. Then again, I'm usually one to just step away for a breather if I feel like a game is turning into work.
Gimmlette Nov 17th 2011 10:33AM
^These are my sentiments, too. I have no problem with content that is geared toward the hard-core raiders when it first comes out. My guild and I will go in, get squashed, have a great time and conquer it when we get to it, even if that is 2 years down the road. World or server firsts are not our motivation. Fun is. But I understand that doing things when they are first released is the motivation for others. You guys have at it. What you learn is what we read up on and that helps us when we get there. Thanks.
I remember BC raiding and watching the people in the endgame content walking through Shatt in their shiny armor. I'm struggling through BC heroics to get the full set of Beast Lord and this hunter has the eyeball shoulders! Oh wow! Honestly, I didn't feel jealousy. I was at my level and he was at his. The game worked for both of us.
In order to grow a brand, there will have to be changes and adaptations to what people remember. Hard core raiders are no longer Blizzard's target audience. In order to sustain the game, they need to look at who is the target audience and direct their efforts to retaining them. For some of us, that feels like a sell-out. I remember when quest items didn't sparkle. I ran through the Wetlands trying to find the Menethil statue without the box it was in sparkling. Gad that was hard. I am so very grateful for sparkling boxes now. I wish there were more incentives for people to learn to play their class, but I understand that the work I went through is not vitally necessary to the majority's play style. They want to push buttons and have something die, not have to finesse it.
As many have said, I, too, feel Blizzard does an adequate job of meeting most players wants or needs. I have no problem with T13 gear only coming from raids. Blizzard designs the game, Blizzard can call the shots. I know a guy who feels that, although he does not raid or does not run 5-mans, he should get top of the line gear. When I point out to him that his POV is not the game model, he says, because he pays $15 a month, his wants should be accommodated. I told him to find a different game.
mordred Nov 17th 2011 9:38AM
In some ways yes, in some ways no.
Players are never satisfied. I think they're addicted to change for change's sake (I've read that this can be similar to other kinds of addiction.) Also, it is really easy to be passive-aggressive all the time and whine the developers' ears off. I'm a person who often loves a particular spell or game mechanism that has to go the way of the dodo because everyone is too cool for school and has to mouth off about it. But you get the impression it's more bandwagoning than anything. I always think to myself I wish those people would just join a guild that could soak up all their drama in guild chat and leave the game well enough alone.
On the other hand, for example, having to fly everywhere on flight paths sucks big time. Hours of my life wasted. There is no game play aspect to sitting in front of my computer staring at the landscapes pass under me. It devolves into 'Ooh, let me toggle different views to look at my wind rider's keister again. That's something to do while I'm sitting here bored.' The difference here is that the game requires lots of travel, so accordingly it should accommodate.
A middle ground would be if cosmetic items or nerd rage b.s. (i.e. I don't waaaaant to use earthquake!) have flexibility for preferences, and mandatory stuff is not oversimplified, but made user-friendly. And now I will contradict things I've said and say when do I get my orc priest? :(
Luke Nov 17th 2011 9:40AM
Tyler I agree with you. It's the depth of game play that I enjoy the most, and a reason why I don't enjoy FPS, I get bored with it too easily.
My only issue with this is time constraints. For a lot of people they don't enjoy games like Call Of Duty and other similar pick up and put down games, but they also lack the time to fully invest in everything they would like to do in Warcraft. Some of the features Matt mentions in this article help those people with less time enjoy a game they love but not at the expense of other aspects of their life.
Is there a sense of entitlement? Sure, but that's not the whole story.
mordred Nov 17th 2011 9:43AM
Of course, being able to grind to get cool mounts and stuff leads to wanting to get more cool mounts...I used to approach the game asking what limited content for me is manageable, then once I started getting reps up and stuff I started realizing more was attainable, which led to more grinds and more subscription time, so...
I like all my mounts. I want yours too.
Vort Nov 17th 2011 9:50AM
Entitled gamers?! Ha! that ship sailed a long time ago. That and instant gratification.
Benadictator Nov 17th 2011 9:59AM
I'd say that we are entitled to some level of service since we've shelled out cash for the game, all the expansions, and a monthly fee. With that said, a large portion of the player base is just so.....whiny. Reading the forums on the WoW site is just depressing, full of people QQing about how blizzard is lazy and how WoW sucks. People don't seem to have any idea how complex this game is. They also seem to have a general lack of appreciation for the excellent product that is WoW. I mean, let's face it, this game is bounds and leaps above (arguably) all the other MMORPGs out there. I guess players have unrealistic expectations of what they deserve, and we could all use some lessons on how to provide CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK.
lix Nov 17th 2011 10:02AM
Entitlement is the illusion of the self-serving proletariat.
Monsoon Nov 17th 2011 10:09AM
To all the people who say this game is getting too easy, I say come up with a way to make it more challenging. Some City of Heroes players came up with a way to make running the different Task Forces in the game more entertaining; it's called Task Force: Fabulous. In order to participate, you must dress your character in underwear, cowboy boots, a cowboy hat, and a sparkly aura all in bright colors (other accessories are optional, so long as your character is still running around in their undies). Then it becomes a drinking game; take a drink if someone in the group gains a level, if someone is defeated, or when you finish a mission. Finish your drink and start a new one if the group wipes.
This could easily be adapted for WoW; run some content with nothing equipped in your chest, leg, and tabard slots, so your character is running around in their undies. Take a drink if someone dies, someone levels, or when you down a boss. Finish your drink and start a new one if the team wipes, even if someone can self-rez and recover. Add a rule for gear drops; maybe the winner of a roll takes a drink, two if they rolled Need, and if they roll 100 then everyone else takes a drink instead.