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11-17-2011 @ 8:19AM
I've been playing wow since just before Burning Crusade and I still enjoy it. But i get really tired of hearing how everyone misses "vanilla" wow I mean really jeez why do you think everyone calls it vanilla.
11-17-2011 @ 9:03AM
Vanilla ice-cream is darn near perfect.
11-17-2011 @ 9:34AM
To be honest, I don't miss "Vanilla" WoW. I was just using it as a reference point for the changes I've seen and the experience I've had. However, I really did think that things were pretty good in Burning Crusade, in terms of advancement pacing. I wasn't a "raider" then, but when I did get good gear (through hours and hours of saving up the points) I felt accomplished. I knew that if/when I did step into a raid, I would be able to be competitive, and that the "hardcore" bunch would recognize that this "RPer" had busted his hump to be able to hang with them.I had no delusions that I should have access to the current tier of content. I was happy to get stuff that was slightly better than Karazhan-level, and to aspire towards working hard at getting "real" raid gear. And I did. My guild (and several other small RP guilds) formed a raiding alliance and began to explore the raiding content. We got through most of Tier 5 before Wrath came out. It was an incredible feeling, because we knew we'd worked hard and done something nobody expected we would.Now, everyone can farm Heroics to get gear at or comparable to the top raid tier... and it just doesn't seem like an accomplishment, to me. It doesn't motivate me to gear my alts or to try hard. It just seems like getting a "participation" trophy.If you can do Heroics and get top-level gear, but don't raid... what did you achieve? You're now going to be doing Heroics in gear that makes the content ridiculously uninteresting, which isn't going to motivate you to try, learn or improve in the slightest. All it means is you were patient. Is patience something that deserves to be rewarded?
11-17-2011 @ 10:34AM
@Matt: There's a reason why tiered content changed in WotLK.Suppose a fresh new 85 wants to participate in the only relevant endgame activity (aside from PvP): Raiding. This can be an alt or a genuine new player.If they had to do every tier to get to the current raiding content, they might as well quit WoW, since nobody raids old stuff except to farm badges/emblems/points. This happened to me when I got to lvl 70 on my first character in TBC, two or three months before the release of WotLK. I never got beyond Karazhan farm runs with my guild, who were reluctant to bring me there in the first place because I wasn't even ready for heroics (since nobody runned normals anymore).If I understand correctly, in MoP there won't be normals, so one can start doing heroics the moment one hits the level cap. And through justice/valor points
11-17-2011 @ 10:47AM
@MattKrotzerPeople treat non-raiders as though their game ends at Patch x.0. Sure, you don't need stellar gear to do dailies (although I remember the Tol Barad dailies being a huge pain on my fresh 85), but Blizz does still release new 5-mans. They don't present the same challenge or have the same high profile as raid dungeons, but for non-raiders, those sequential new 5-mans are their progression.Lots of folk had a tough time with the Heroic Icecrown dungeons when they were first released, especially Halls of Reflection. It's not that bizarre for non-raiders to want to scrape together what gear they can to be as prepared as possible.
11-17-2011 @ 12:54PM
"Lots of folk had a tough time with the Heroic Icecrown dungeons when they were first released, especially Halls of Reflection. It's not that bizarre for non-raiders to want to scrape together what gear they can to be as prepared as possible."There's being prepared, and there's being overgeared. If you trade in your valor points, you're getting gear that is better than the content you're facing in your example. Utilizing Valor Point gear to complete the Zul'Agains strikes me as moving backwards. You don't need the gear you'll be getting, and the challenge of completing it will be largely negated.It becomes a situation where you're basically just farming for enchanting materials.
11-17-2011 @ 2:10PM
Yeah, 5-mans are not as challenging as raids, but it's still disingenuous to say, "everyone can farm Heroics to get gear at or comparable to the top raid tier". First of all, weapon slots -- main hand, two-handers, and shields -- are not available at all from point vendors (except for the i346 blues). As far as I know, and I could be mistaken, this isn't changing in 4.3; I won't be getting an i373 shield for my tank from Valor points.Second of all, the top raid tier is always the Heroic version of a raid, which is itemized higher than the Normal version. No amount of 5-man dungeon runs can ever get anyone something with the same ilvl as a Heroic raid, and this is as it should be. Raids are bigger and more challenging, and this is why raiders will always get better gear, faster than non-raiders. If you raid, and are content to stick to raiding at a Normal level, then that's fine... you just want to see the dungeons and the bosses, and you're happy with what you get from that gear. But please, don't go complaining that non-raiders can get gear with the same ilvl as you if you don't want to step up to Heroic raids.Non-raiders deserve some form of progression, and I for one think that Blizz has hit it pretty damn close to the mark here. If you're serious enough about raiding to complain about non-raiders getting higher level gear, then you should be hitting Heroic Raids before a non-raider has more than one or two pieces of Valor point gear... in which case, you've already surpassed them, and really should have no complaint. If you're content to stay at a Normal level, but want your normal-level gear to still be super l33t and awesome... then answer me, who is actually the entitled one?
11-17-2011 @ 3:47PM
"Second of all, the top raid tier is always the Heroic version of a raid, which is itemized higher than the Normal version. "You're really splitting hairs on that one. I think it's pretty apparent that I meant Tier 12, as compared to Tier 11. Nobody refers to Heroic version gear as Tier 14 (if Cata's initial raids were T11 & 12, Firelands would be T13 & 14).
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