Hard to say, but really if "need to push Jaina" is the reason to nix theremore, than Kul Tiras would have been a good substitution for Theremore in the destructive phase also.

I'm not a Jaina fan, so I'm not sold on her needing to come to grips with The War, really. It seems to me though, that Kul Tiras refugee's washing up on shore as Horde forces have destroyed the island would have illustrated simply enough that the threat is real.

Maybe not Kul Tiras, but I think the Alliance might just get Stromgarde back.

Dustwallow Marsh was barely untouched in Cata, which makes me think that Blizzard had been planning the destruction of Theramore from way back then (so they wouldn't have to revamp the zone twice). Perhaps the same is true of another zone that was barely untouched in Cata: Arathi Highlands.

And if you think about it, Arathi is just north of Wetlands, the last zone that is truly controlled by the Alliance in northern Eastern Kingdoms; if controlled, it would create a link between the Human, Dwarven and Night Elven troops in Wetlands and the Wildhammer Dwarves in the Hinterlands. Not to mention that it's relatively close to the Undercity, to Gilneas... it is perfectly suited to become the Alliance's staging ground to make war on Sylvanas.

I think there's a chance that Stromgarde, barely touched since Vanilla, might just become the "replacement" for Theramore. This would solidify the Alliance's strength in northern Eastern Kingdoms, to "compensate" (in a way) for the great loss in southern Kalimdor. (And Arathi is a contested zone anyway, so the Horde wouldn't be losing any territories, or anything.)

To be fair, I'd normally be fine with something like Theramore being razed. Storywise, it's interesting because something that big raises the stakes. However, it's a problem when taken with the rest of the Alliance storyline.

It's not even that the Alliance loses so often. That could even be excused if done well. The problem is that the Alliance is reactive, even passive. If (not when, if) they do anything, it is always reacting to something.

And this is not just a problem from WoW. It's existed from the very beginning. Warcraft 1 has the humans defending against the orcs. Warcraft 2 has the humans defending, then pushing back, the orcs.

Warcraft 3, when the Horde starts to become the non-evil faction, has the humans flee to Kalimdor because the Scourge wiped out Lordaeron, while the orcs set sail for Kalimdor in order to build a new life. Notice how even here, the Horde was proactive while the Alliance was reactive.

So that's my problem with Theramore. It just compounds the problem that the only way the writers seem to be able to include the Alliance in the story is by having them reacting to an outside force.

That is why they cannot come up with a good war cry for the Alliance. It's because the Alliance feels so insubstantial. It only exists as a reflection of something else.

This is an interesting response and highlights the base problem that Anne is attempting to address. It's this notion that the story has to be fair or it's not a good story. Actually, a good story is typically NOT fair! A lot of people weren't happy that Snape killed Dumbledore (that's not still a spoiler...right?) but it made for a good story.

Warcraft 3 was a good story, but it didn't seek to make sure that the Horde and Alliance came out the same. The Alliance got a major city burned to the ground and it's ruler became a villain. The Horde got to escape captivity, find a new home and make new allies. The Alliance did manage to have a faction survive the destruction of Lordaeron, but "surviving" isn't exactly a victory. The writers didn't feel a need to make sure the story was "fair" to both sides, they just tried to make it interesting.

Enter WoW. Where the real trouble starts. Now it's not just "my favorite characters lost/got ignored" it's "MY character got the shaft." While people were attached to the story before, they are now PART of the story. They feel like they are part of the Horde or Alliance and that makes the story changes feel personal. So we demand equality in story telling. To some extent, that's reasonable and necessary. If Blizzard wants to maintain it's game, it needs both factions and players on both factions. They could tell a great story of the Horde/Alliance winning a permanent and lasting victory over the Alliance/Horde, but that will kick the foundation out of the game. It's important to give both sides something to enjoy, something to look forward to, something to celebrate. At the same time, maintaining perfect parity is going to make for a terribly boring and predictable story.

There's gotta be a good balance from Blizzard to tell a good, changing story, but also keep both sides of their player base happy. It's also up to us, the players, to tell them what we think, if we enjoy the story or not and then we need to let them TELL THE STORY. To some extent, we need to shut up and play the game. Yet...it needs to remain a game we WANT to play with a story we can be invested in. It's hard to be invested when you are always losing. I'm going in circles here, but that's because it's a very tricky problem for Blizzard to deal with.

Ultimately, it'd be great if everyone can step back and disconnect themselves from "their faction" for a few minutes and just look at the story. Stop taking it so personally and enjoy the story. Then tell Blizzard that even though they have written a good story, it takes the heart out of your faction and makes you not want to play.

I thought the warcry was decided years ago. "Grab your sword and fight the Horde!"

Let's see if anyone other than old staff members know where that originated (as a warcry, not the phrase itself)!

I'm a bit of a pessimist really, so take that into consideration, but I figure Theremore will be attacked "destroyed" and rebuilt in an event and otherwise still function exactly as it does now. All this talk of Kul Tiras, Stromgarde, Stonard, meh. When the Panda's bounce in, theremore will probably still have the same asshat defectors.

The thing about Theremore's destruction being part of a good story and all that is addressed elsewhere, but I'll say this, Blizzard has a lot of income, that $15ish a month folks pay is for maintenance, customer service and game support. I'd think they'd have a good writing staff and development staff that should be able to weave a tale of high adventure, war and heroism with two factions without having to destroy another Alliance town. It's an MMO, it's a static world in between expansions.

If Jaina needs to be motivated, let her wake up and smell the ooze boiling off Southshore, it "just happened". Why hasn't she reacted to all the other stuff? Just seems like the adding a new Story Catalyst when so many others are still sitting ignored or forgotten, just stretches things.

Except for Neptulon, not sure why she mentioned that at all, since they've already said they abandoned the idea of the raid, and are fine with the "ending" the way it is. It's not some "story seed" from what they've said. He'll be forgotten until someone down the line goes "oh, crap, did we ever...", just like Uldum...

You really can't tell me to step back and stop thinking of the story in terms of my faction's point of view since that's all Blizz has forced down our throats for years. Us vs Them. Alliance vs Horde. I chose my side years ago, and when the best they can come up with is to trash another one of our cities to stir the pot, I'm annoyed by it. Even small places hold sentimental value to lots of players, and to lose or see destroyed Southshore, Menethil Harbor, Auberdine, Astranaar, Silverwind Refuge, to gain back and then lose Andorhal, and even Gilneas as a cruel tease, and now have Theramore on the horizon to up in smoke?

I don't care about Pandas, monks, or pet battles. MoP has a hell of a lot to answer for, and there needs to be a storyline to pick up what the Alliance players have been saying. Give us a war. Give us blood. Give us some Horde heads on pikes. I can be all kinds of pissed off as a player, but the game doesn't give me anywhere to take it out but in the extremely transitory battlegrounds. I want world changes that go beyond a couple of walls and ditches in South Barrens. I want to see the Undercity burn. I want Tauren totem poles to adorn Stormwind's trophy room. I want Garrosh's ridiculously oversized shoulderpad horns turned into a rocking chair for Ol' Emma.

@RedMosquito - Dustwallow Marsh was barely touched? Maybe Mudsprocket, but the Alliance put a freaking superhighway right through the middle of it. They then used this highway to wage war on the once-peaceful Barrens, wiping out the innocent inhabitants of Camp Taurajo.

If you want to know why the Horde attacked Theramore, it's simply revenge for the Taurajo massacre.

@Mooli "Dustwallow Marsh was barely touched? Maybe Mudsprocket, but the Alliance put a freaking superhighway right through the middle of it. "

They put a road. That's.... it. That's not a whole lot compared to many other zones. You can call it superhighway or freeway or whatever... it's still just... a road, compared to, say, two new forts in Swamp of Sorrows (plus a small outpost), Barrens getting cut in two, and many new spots there, plus a new jungle, Stonetalon getting quite redecorated as was Badlands...

So yeah. Barely touched. They put a road. The story that goes with it isn't even in Dustwallow.

Whats the point anymore?
Sorry but even the author failed to show his point - for example "Yes, sometimes the Horde will hold the upper hand, as in Cataclysm. And sometimes the Alliance will hold the upper hand."
When was the alliance holding the upper hand and pushing the horde back then????
Oh yes - the only time it was ....before the orcs came to the land.
Sorry but Blizz, for me at least, have already passed the point of no return. I quit in 4.1, and tbh have never looked back (well maybe once or twice - but I have never thought about coming back). Too little too late, and just when I thought about it, Blizzcon happened, and that was the final nail in the coffin for me.