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11-23-2011 @ 5:18PM
Hopefully that will stop all the QQing about all the missing stuff. Clearly this is a work in progress and everything isn't in place yet.
11-23-2011 @ 5:43PM
No, the QQ is in strong force even now.
11-23-2011 @ 5:55PM
I commend them for doing it and it was a very insightful post. That being said, people need to chill out. As obviously stated, it can and will change many times along the road. I am very much looking forward to playing the mage and rogue (especially the rogue) in Beta. I hope the rogue talents can stay long enough for us to try them out. I am getting close to having an 85 of every class and as some of you may know, am not shy about my feedback ;)
11-23-2011 @ 6:32PM
Curious, it seems that they are removing the ability to "design" your character so that it's different from others. Could be wrong, but that seems to be the directions they are moving towards.
11-23-2011 @ 7:06PM
This isn't the first time your question has been answered and it won't be the last.They are not removing any sort of ability to customise your character. If anything, they are adding it.Go into a raid, a raid of COMPETENT players. Look at the players. Compare people who are the same class and same spec. What is the different in their talents.One? Two points? At most. Cookie cutter builds are everywhere. The current talent system gives the illusion of choice but very little actual room for decision making.This new talent system leaves things far more ambiguous as to which talent is going to be most useful in a given situation. You make REAL choices, and any two people are far less likely to be identical.They are doing the opposite of removing the ability for characters to be different, they are adding it.
11-23-2011 @ 7:07PM
As has been discussed here (and other places) your customization is in your talents, and to a lesser degree, glyphs.The intent (naturally, the reality may not match) is that talents don't have a 'right' answer. Or at least not an answer that is 'right' for all situations.Removing the current talent trees is largely a matter of eliminating 'wrong' answers. Very few specs had more than five or six 'free' talent points that you could reasonably place wherever you wanted without gimping your character to some degree.Well, now every spec will have six 'free' talent points, and none of them are boring '+x% per talent point' talents; they're either extra buttons to press directly, or enable extra things when you push the buttons you already want to push. Most of them are (intentionally) not direct DPS/healing/survivability buttons. They are by no means perfect or anywhere near final, of course; as Bashiok points out, the xpac isn't even in alpha yet.As an example, the armor specializations are apparently trained at 55 on shamans, 50 on warlocks, and level 1 for druids and hunters (who can't even equip mail until 40).Then you've got things like Wind Shear showing up with a 15 second cooldown for all three specs (although that may be intentional, since there was something in one of the dev watercoolers about making interrupts less common and more meaningful, IIRC) and all shamans are also back to a cast-time Ghost Wolf (at least without burning a talented cooldown), which might also be intentional.
11-23-2011 @ 7:10PM
@Tiqu is that a new thing?I've been going through the talent system for TOR, which is quite the throwback to old-school talent trees.I've got to say, I rarely see more than about 3-6 points (effectively 1or 2 talents) that could reasonably be moved around in any given build. given the choice between that and MoP talents, I'd honestly prefer the latter. I'll take effective choice over the illusion of choice any day.That being said, I've pre-ordered TOR, it's just not the talent structure that draws me there. It's Bioware, and it's effing Star Wars. what could go wrong?
11-23-2011 @ 8:19PM
What if you are a player like me who doesn't want to raid?
11-23-2011 @ 9:21PM
@TiquRaiding and not raiding shouldn't make a difference here. If anything, not being a raider should make the options even more open to you, since you'll be completely free to pick whatever you want to pick without worrying about whether that playstyle will mesh with any particular encounter.Your talent choices with the new system are set up so that every choice you make will actually do something tangible and let you change the way you do whatever that tier is designed to address.I guess you could make a case for throwing random points wherever in the current talent system with the justification that you aren't raiding and thus it doesn't matter, but I've very rarely seen anyone do that in Cata and have it yield anything particularly fun and engaging. Because so many talents are directly tied to damage increases, there's not a lot of room for experimentation, and even if you tried to force points into unusual combinations you probably wouldn't see very much change in the way your character worked outside of the damage fluctuating in weird ways.With the current system, there's really only three "builds" you get for any particular spec - PvE-suitable, PvP-suitable, or "broken". The revamp just gives you most of the "required" abilities that you had to take anyways to keep yourself from being in the "broken" category, and leaves you with actual customization of how your character is going to play.
11-23-2011 @ 9:35PM
@ TabasaThank you for your explanation. Maybe my misunderstanding is part of the reason i don't like raiding or endgame so much. Tiqu
11-24-2011 @ 12:05AM
QQ never stops. Because QQ'ers usually QQ before checking things out. You should see how the DK (my main is a Blood DK) forum is rife with idiots going, "But what about this?" or "Blood is getting screwed" or "My spec SHOULD be so OP in PvP that no one else ever wins", etc.
11-24-2011 @ 9:56AM
Screw the current "choices", those aren't any choices at all. It's an illusion.By the time you hit level 80 you've got just about every talent in the whole tree. Even those talents you skipped over back at level 40-something. You have so many points and so few talents to choose from that it's not even possible to avoid doing that. You've got a little bit of play on which other tree you dump your remaining points into. That's it.Seriously, log into the game right now and look at your talents, and which two or three talents you didn't pick. If you don't PVP, they were probably "reduce so and so's movement speed when you this or that" or "break stuns when whatever". If you do PVP, maybe something else.THAT'S the "choice" your fighting for? Two or three talents you didn't pick?When was the last time you changed your spec? I specced Affliction primary and Demonology secondary on my warlock main. I haven't had to spend a single gold to change up the talents in about 8 months. Don't even have to give them a second thought.THAT'S the variety you want so desperately to hold on to?Give me a break.
11-24-2011 @ 10:14AM
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