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11-23-2011 @ 7:42PM
Taking the heals away from shadow priests, all paladin specs except holy, and otherwise limiting the ability to perform a hybrid role in a pinch does indeed look like it's intended. (No more out of combat rez for druids unless they are resto? What the heck?) And I absolutely loathe these changes. I can't say strongly enough how bad an idea this is.I love hybrid classes because they are hybrids. I love being able to take over a tank role on my druid, or throw some heals on my shadow priest if my group gets into trouble. Blizzard appears to be intending to put a stop to that. Making abilities baseline is all well and good, but they are putting specs into very specific boxes and not giving us any choice over how we play a class/spec.And please stop telling me that they are not taking away choices! I know that "most" people use the same build, but the way to solve that isn't to minimize our choices, but make options more compelling and allow us to pick the ones that compliment our playstyle.This new system forces us all into the cookie-cutter build that developed in Cataclysm (since we can't cross into another spec's tree until we've filled our main spec, this was inevitable), and tries to distract us from it by dangling something shiny in front of us.
11-23-2011 @ 8:04PM
If you mention this in any other column, people will just downvote you.They are too interested in "Ooh, shiny. New talent trees, and new abilities" to see how much is being ripped away.Shaman, in particular, are pathetic. 9 abilities are being removed, including Purge. And Water Breathing. Why the hell remove Water Breathing? Just because it wasn't an ability that was cast every time you entered combat, it should be removed? Reminds me of the whiners who whined just because they couldn't figure out a use for Sentry Totem, and got it removed. Totally !@#$ing over those of us who did.
11-23-2011 @ 8:26PM
The player base spoke on the issue of hybrids a long time ago: specialize, or GTFO. We told Blizzard we didn't want to pay in DPS for the ability to heal, or healing for the ability to DPS. Well, we've finally hit that endpoint (or at least gotten really, really close.)And not having to give up Silence or Psychic Horror is part of the same thing; just like magi don't do much self healing and depend on instead on utility spells to stay alive, so are hybrids being forced to depend on utility spells instead of a larger healing toolkit.That said, I expect all classes' baseline heals to end up more potent than they are today, since hybrid healing is nerfed quite a bit by losing most of the various heal spells; most of those +x% to all heal abilities that are currently granted by spec choice should just be baked back into the base spell.
11-23-2011 @ 9:08PM
Dude, you need to calm down over Purge. Shadow Priests still have Dispel Magic; it's incredibly unlikely we're losing Purge.Water Breathing? Sorry. Can't get worked up over a spell I haven't used since Wrath launched and gave us the longer breath bars. I'm not saying I want it gone, btw; I just don't see any point to it. YMMV.See again how they're not finished yet. By all means, point out what's not there: examples include Purge and Water Breathing that you've already mentioned; others include all the five minute totems. Or rather the replacement abilities for the five-minute totems, since we've been told that the current plan is to make stuff like Strength of Earth, Windfury, Flametongue/Totemic Wrath, and Wrath of Air auras. And yes, I'd be surprised if we end up with caster shamans able to give out Windfury/Strength or enhance shamans giving out Flametongue/Wrath of Air. People complained continually about dealing with totems. Soon it'll be time to complain about losing flexibility.And yeah, I'm annoyed by the seeming reversal of the community; on the other hand, I'd bet that the folks complaining now are not the same folks that were complaining before, so it's not really fair to be annoyed. (sigh) It's just that a lot of these moves are fairly obvious responses to some long-term gripes of (vocal fractions of) the community.
11-23-2011 @ 9:33PM
I keep making a deal about Purge because it's a clear sign they don't give a shit what they remove. Purge is a Shaman's #1 PVP non-damage ability. It is one of several trademark abilities they are removing. If it were one ability it would be one thing, but when they remove several from different classes, it doesn't sound like it was an accident.They have said before in the past they have a hard time coming up with new, distinct abilities for each spec each expansion, so now they are simply removing all abilities under a specific school, and putting them in a spec. It's a lazy way to do it. They keep reinventing the talent system, and this time they simply rip it out, !@#$ everyone over, and add in a few OP abilities (which they admitted were meant to sound OP.)A hybrid class spec'd into a DPS role can do DPS, and if need be, heal in an emergency. A healing spec can DPS in an emergency. In the new system, you are limited by your spec. If you need more healing than your weakest heal, kiss your ass goodbye. If you need to take out an NPC, and you are in your healing spec, expect the fight to last awhile.We are being forced into one role per spec, and it is not the "anti-cookie cutter" reasoning that Blizzard has used. Too many people get hung up on specs and roles in instances. "If you're spec'd DPS, you shouldn't be healing", no shit, but the ability to heal, yourself or others, especially if an emergency comes up, is gone.I am hoping they change their minds, the current talent system is a joke if they think it will eliminate cookie-cutter specs. If nothing more, it will enforce it. One per person, one per spec.This isn't innovation, it is a desperate move to make a distintinction between the specs without having to come up with a ton of new abilities, it seems like.
11-23-2011 @ 10:53PM
Drak, I usually agree with you a bunch, but you need to calm down, man. When we're at a point where, as Fox said, we still don't know what was removed and what was overlooked when putting together the talent calculator, raving about what Blizz "ripped away" from your spec/class of choice is wasted breath and wasted bandwidth. They clearly forgot or misplaced Mind Blast, a major part of the spriest rotation, and you're complaining about Purge and *Water Breathing*?! Count to ten, get some air and save your raving for a Beta build when a missing spell means something.
1-01-2012 @ 4:19PM
@DrakkenfyreOk, lets get this straight, Trevor. What? You're name is not Trevor? I dont care, it is now.To start off, enough crying about downvoting. People have the right to up vote or down vote whatever they want, Trevor, and I'm downvoting you just because you complain about that so much.Now, to business. So you say blizzard is killing the hybrids abilities, that a DPS hybrid cannot heal in an emergency. Is that what you're saying, Trevor? I think it is. Then why is blizzard giving druids a talent that, as it says "dramatically increases druid's ability to serve a role outside of normal specialization" ? Isn't that agi to int bonus supposed to make cats heal better in an emergency, Trevor? It seems so.Take a look at paladins now, Trevor. Things get fun here. The only traditional heal prot and ret specs are keeping is Flash of Light. Think about Flash of Light. You know what is the most important quality of flash, Trevor? It's fast. A short cast time kinda makes sense when you dont wanna to, i dont know, stop hitting stuff with your sword to heal. Besides that, there's a talent called Selfless healer that improves the healing done by flash of light. Why only flash of light, you ask? Because every paladin could take it, Trevor.And if you really want to burn cooldowns for that, it gets even better. Take a look at holy avenger. What does it say? It says 10 seconds of infinite holy power. You know what we can do with infinite holy power for 10 seconds, Trevor? We can spam word of glory, because the cooldown is gone. Thats some decent healing right there. Do we have to trade 10 seconds of TVs for that? We sure do, but emergencies are emergencies, arent they? Not to mention that speed of light will give rets the old version of holy radiance, that we have right now and it's going away next patch. Only rets, Trevor, only rets.And I might be wrong, but shamans are getting a tier of talents just about healing, arent they? Do you really think they will be useless, Trevor? That resto shamans will be happy and elemental and enhancement shamans will be sad when they reach that level? Do you really think they will let a full tier of talents be useless to 2 out of 3 specs? I dont think so. And you know what, Trevor? I think blizz might have a clue about what they are doing, because, they have 10 million people paying to play their game right now.If you want not to be downvoted, stop crying about it and work on your arguments, because you are not convincing people, Trevor. You are not convincing anybody.
11-23-2011 @ 11:27PM
Drak, there are a *ton* of abilities across every class that aren't listed on the MoP talent calculator that obviously aren't being removed. Keep a level head. It's going to be okay. There's no way Purge is gone for good.
11-24-2011 @ 12:26AM
The mentioning of the downvoting is because if a post isn't giving praise to every change, people downvote it. It's happening to other posts. Wait until people actually see what they lose, then they will be crying. They see the new abilities they get in the talents, but they don't see what they are giving up.When you have been thru 2 talent revamps, and have been told they are trying to remove cookie-cutter choices, and then when they change them again, and create one giant cookie-cutter choice, you know this talent system, as presented, is going to fail and be even worse.When you have seen the dev team admit they have problems coming up with new things for each spec, then to see them turn around and rip the abilities apart just so they don't have to work on abilities which would maintain the distinctness yet be new, it's apparant they don't want to work on abilities like that anymore, and just want the easy way out.My use of Water Breathing is to show yet another non-essential yet useful spell being removed for no reason. Why is it being removed? Does it break balance? Does it provide an advantage over the other classes that is undefeatable in PVP? Is it an ability that they feel is no longer useful? It's simply being taken away. As is several other utility spells. It's an example. It is not a sole spell I am saying the entire game is going to hell for the removal of.There is a slow removal of flavor from the game. Once, Rogues actually had to brew their poisons. You actually had to use spices in recipes that are called spicy or spiced. Rogues had to level their Lockpicking (Oh, it's was so painful. Finding the lockboxes and spending a few minutes skilling up for free every couple of levels.) Things are removed from the game for "quality of life" reasons, but in most of those cases it's just losing flavor which added to the game and how it's played. Now hybrids get to be limited to the spec they are in. Tell me what the difference will be, as far as healing ability, between a Shadow Priest and a Draenei Mage with Gift of the Naaru? One will have a 3-minute cooldown. The other with no cooldown.Instead of a spec making you stronger in the associated abilities, it now locks you down to a set of abilities. When you have seen the progression of the abilities from Burning Crusade, to Wrath of the Lich King, to Cataclysm, to now, you see how they are simplifying and removing things. It is simplying to the point where your choices are taken away, and it's almost like being told how to play the game. Simplifcation isn't always the best thing, and it isn't always a good thing.Healers already have a hard time DPS'ing (example, solo content) so they switch to a DPS spec. Now, Holy specs will basically be even harder, and that secondary spec (which doesn't become available until level 20) becomes even more important.I know this is all prerelease info. That's the entire point of my comment. I hope they change this crap. If it weren't for the fact that they already seem so set on removing so many abilities and making them spec-related, I would say that feedback might change their mind.And you mentioned "Trevor" far more than I have mentioned downvoting.
11-24-2011 @ 9:46AM
@Drak: "My use of Water Breathing is to show yet another non-essential yet useful spell being removed for no reason. Why is it being removed?"At this point, the question isn't "why is it being removed," it's "IS it being removed?" That's why you need to calm down.Sure, say, "Hey, Water Breathing is missing from this tree. What gives?"Don't start throwing a fit. Warlock's still have Endless Breath in their tree, but are missing stuff like Metamorphosis: Demonic Slash from the spell list. Rogues are missing Rupture, a key ability that's modified by Subtelty passives.They clearly overlooked some stuff while putting these together. Some classes are also clearly further into development than other.These changes are pre-alpha, and won't even be testable for months. Nobody's getting "forced" into anything. They posted these asking for feedback. Calm, simple, constructive feedback. NOT "sky is falling, Blizzard ruins everything, nobody loves me, everybody hates me!" feedback.
11-24-2011 @ 2:11PM
You seem to think this is a one-off thing. From their past actions, removing spells which are useful but aren't used every day, this seems like they are doing it again.It wouldn't surprise me at this point if they did remove things which they didn't deem "essential" to DPS or healing.I know very well this is all pre-release stuff. I have said several times I hope this changes before release. I hope it's not another "Oops, lol, we got rid of Sentry Totem" just because some morons didn't know how to use it, and complained about it until they removed it. I don't like flavor being removed from the game. I don't like wide-sweeping changes which remove flavor, either. And when the initial preview shows a SHITLOAD of things removed, you get worried they are going to remove more and more. One or two things missing might be explained. When dozens and dozens of abilities are gone, it's hard to say which ones are accidentally left off, and which ones are intentional.I used Water Breathing as an example. It's not the only spell which has gone missing, which makes no sense as to it's removal.
11-25-2011 @ 11:23AM
Drak: to recap, non-inclusion /= removed. Stop *hoping* that the current spell selection is gonna change, because it is guaranteed it WILL change. Breathe more.If I'm planning a giant Thanksgiving dinner and leave turkey off my shopping list, what are the chances I just don't want turkey for my WASP family dinner versus my simply forgetting to write it down?
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