Blue posts and other WoW news: Patch 4.3 Raid Finder loot rules
by Adam Holisky 
Nov 23rd 2011 at 11:59PM
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Blue posts
Raid Finder Patch 4.3 loot rules
As previously announced the Raid Finder will use an altered version of Need Before Greed that provides loot roll bonuses to those that have entered the raid in the role (tank, DPS, healing) that uses those items. Unfortunately the system is currently unable to detect spec, and so this creates some issues for classes that utilize stats that are not "common" to that role.
To help clarify which items you will or will not be able to roll on based on the role you entered the raid in, we have some basic guidelines that we've followed that should help you anticipate which items you'll receive the roll bonus on.
If you're in a raid as one of the below roles here is what you'll receive a roll bonus on:
Tank:
With Mists of Pandaria our expectation is that we will have the ability to detect spec, and so all of these issues go away for future raids. For Dragon Soul there will be some overlap, though, and it's important you're aware of the loot rules as due to the automated distribution system our support department will not be able to assist with any loot disputes while using Raid Finder.
To help clarify which items you will or will not be able to roll on based on the role you entered the raid in, we have some basic guidelines that we've followed that should help you anticipate which items you'll receive the roll bonus on.
If you're in a raid as one of the below roles here is what you'll receive a roll bonus on:
Tank:
- Agility Leather (for druids)
- Strength plate with tank stats on it
- Trinkets with tank stats
- Trinkets with Agility (for druids)
- Any appropriate caster gear without Hit
- Trinkets that trigger on heals or beneficial spells
- Mostly everything that doesn't have a tank stat on it
- Spirit gear (for elemental shaman, shadow priest, and moonkin)
- Trinkets that trigger on damaging spells/melee hits
With Mists of Pandaria our expectation is that we will have the ability to detect spec, and so all of these issues go away for future raids. For Dragon Soul there will be some overlap, though, and it's important you're aware of the loot rules as due to the automated distribution system our support department will not be able to assist with any loot disputes while using Raid Finder.
Happy Holiday from the Community Team!
The Community team will have a reduced presence on the forums, Twitter and Facebook for the holiday while we take a seat at the Pilgrim's Bounty table with friends and loved ones, but we'll be back refreshed (and well fed) next week. In the meantime, whether in Sanctuary, Azeroth, Mar Sara or beyond, we hope that you and yours have a chance to share the warmth of the season... and some delicious feast treats, if that's your thing.
Remember that Greatfather Winter and the Mod Squad are still watching though, so be sure to stay on your best behavior. See you next week!
Remember that Greatfather Winter and the Mod Squad are still watching though, so be sure to stay on your best behavior. See you next week!
WoW news from other sites
- MMO-Champion Mists of Pandaria Talent Calculator Unofficial Patch Notes
- Wowhead News 4.3 Raid Finder Loot Rules and Blizzard Preview Footage
- It came from the Blog: Join us for Pilgrim's Bounty 2011
- Encrypted Text: Top rogue gear in patch 4.3
- Spiritual Guidance: Mists of Pandaria spell and talent changes for shadow priests
- Blood Sport: How will patch 4.3 impact PvP?
- Bashiok explains why the MoP talent calculator is out already
- Know Your Lore, Infinite Paths: The golden-eyed
- The Light and How to Swing It: Dealing damage in Dragon Soul heroic dungeons
- The Daily Quest: Room for improvement
- Enter to win a World of Warcraft iPhone clip case
- WoW Moviewatch: Hallow's Dream
- The Queue: Patch 4.3's release date
- Around Azeroth: A better Thanksgiving vacation
- WoW Insider's Weekly Webcomic: Safe Passage -- The Prologue
- Breakfast Topic: What's your idea of good random in-game fun?
- Blizzard unveils Mists of Pandaria talent calculator
- Blizzard posts patch 4.3: Hour of Twilight info hub
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Magma Nov 24th 2011 12:50AM
"With Mists of Pandaria our expectation is that we will have the ability to detect spec, and so all of these issues go away for future raids." And boom goes the dynamite!
warpknight6 Nov 24th 2011 2:16AM
The clever language used there also allows them to remove that feature at a later date; notice they're not actually promising anything... Though I can't believe it'd be that hard. Assign some kind of role ID to each spec! (only place where that'd be a problem, Feral, is getting divided into two specs anyway)
Ksteinhoff Nov 24th 2011 9:14AM
@warpknight6 the division of Feral in two Specs is probably Why they are waiting MoP, I believe
Davril Nov 24th 2011 1:05AM
"Healer:
Any appropriate caster gear without Hit"
"DPS:
Spirit gear (for elemental shaman, shadow priest, and moonkin)"
First view seems a shame that dps get to roll on 2 sets of stats while healers restricted to one. Yes i understand well that hit is useless to healers and that spirit gives hit to oomkin, shadow priest (and i assume ele shaman?) but seems rolls are stacked against healers here.
Finnicks Nov 24th 2011 1:27AM
The other options would be to go back to having Intellect leather with hit... an entire subset of gear for Boomkin only.
And to have intellect mail with hit... an entire subset of gear just for elemental shamans.
I think this is a "lesser of two evils" situation.
I'm more worried about the initial limitations being based purely on raid role. While I understand that the system can't detect specs yet and it's unavoidable... the following situations are going to be sticky and are destined to cause drama:
- Boomkins rolling Need on agility leather.
- Kitties rolling Need on intellect leather.
- Elemental shaman rolling Need on agility mail.
- Enhancement shaman rolling Need on intellect mail.
Hopefully the majority of the druid and shaman community will realize this and learn to ask before rolling Need for offspec, but how widespread such consideration will be remains to be seen. At any rate, I know that at least once I'm going to lose a piece of Agility leather to a Boomkin while tanking in LFR, or lose a piece of Intellect leather to a Kitty while healing.
*sigh*
Woodstock Nov 24th 2011 2:12AM
The rolls won't be stacked against healers, the roll will be neutral with those classes above. The numbers I've used below are arbitrary because I don't know how the roll bonuses will work exactly. This is my interpretation.
Cloth shoulders with +Spirit (no +Hit) drop.
Shadow Priest rolls 51 and receives a bonus of 10.
Mage rolls 51 and receives no bonus
Holy Priest 50 and receives the same bonus of 10.
The shadow priest wins.
Skyrei Nov 24th 2011 1:28AM
They merely have to option to. I believe that those spec probably won-
Ah who am i kidding. I'm sorry in advance.
Adam Nov 24th 2011 1:38AM
It's not really stacked against the healers. Blizzard is trying to make sure that the majority of the armor they create doesn't go to waste, like holy paladin armor...
Blagaah Nov 24th 2011 2:33AM
They are in favor of beakers, as they get need on tow pools of gear,
Or the same mostly for either spec. Easier to hear two sets that way.
Bronwyn Nov 24th 2011 4:54AM
"They are in favor of beakers, as they get need on tow pools of gear,
Or the same mostly for either spec. Easier to hear two sets that way."
Okay, maybe it's just because it is so early, but I'm really having trouble understanding what you're saying Blagaah. Could you mabye explain?
goldeneye Nov 24th 2011 5:21AM
My guess (capitalized my changes):
"They are in favor of HEALERS, as they get TO ROLL need on TWO pools of gear,
Or the same mostly for either spec. Easier to GATHER(?) two sets that way."
Spellotape Nov 24th 2011 7:49AM
It's not really stacked against healers ... more like it's stacked in favour of the caster hybrid dps (as usual?).
Jaq Nov 24th 2011 1:52AM
I'm gonna love not getting a bonus on two handed weapons against DPS because Blizzard, on purpose, never designed 2H tanking weapons for Blood DKs. I seriously am better off DPSing a LFR group because plate melee have better odds getting 2Hs than I would as a tank. Good thing my guild actively raids then...
PeeWee Nov 24th 2011 2:36AM
Look closer on the list and you'll notice that DPS won't get a bonus either. You'll roll against them, but have an equal chance of getting the items, just like today.
Nothing's changing.
ManiacHaywire Nov 24th 2011 4:55AM
Incorrect, DPS get a role roll bonus on and dps trinkets and anything w/o tank stats or spirit (Unless Ele Shammy, Spriest, or Moonkin.)
Sidfish Nov 24th 2011 1:54AM
They're releasing LFR in conjunction with transmog and yet you can't queue for older raids. Now they reveal the Raid Finder can't detect spec which will undoubtedly cause a lot of loot drama. Clearly the days of "when it's done" are behind them, as I've seen quite of few posts essentially stating "MoP will fix it".
On the other hand, I suppose it's the price we pay for getting MoP sooner than later. I'd trade a slightly less polished 4.3 if it means we don't have to raid Dragon Soul for a year.
Cambro Nov 24th 2011 2:19AM
You're implying that they're releasing stuff that's "broken". What they're actually doing is releasing new features that aren't as full-featured as you would like them to be. There's nothing wrong with this. Google and Amazon do this all the time with their websites. Software companies also introduce new features with limited feature sets. It allows their customers to start using new features while giving the company a chance to release smaller, more stable enhancements rather one giant enhancement that would take more time and expense to develop and test, as well as collect customer feedback to tailor future feature enhancements to the needs/desires of the customer.
Or if you want a more physical example, imagine the construction of a major interchange. Would you like them to keep all the lanes closed for three-five years until they finish, or would you like them to open lanes and entrance/exit ramps as they are able?
PeeWee Nov 24th 2011 2:38AM
@Cambro. Not to mention it gives them time to measure the product to see if it'll be worth it spending more money on development.
icepyro Nov 24th 2011 3:22AM
These are features that probably weren't even thought of when Cata came out.
Nothing released for Cata needed to detect roles.
No other raids were released with three levels of difficulty in mind.
Several times it has been mentioned that some changes are better left for expansions when people expect their world to be turned upside down and servers go through a big software change too. While xmog is truly something easily done in a content patch rather than an expansion, LFR is truly not as it requires a retune on every raid that is in it.
Do you really expect Blizz to retune every single raid when the next planned content patch afterwards is going to require them to retune every single raid (again)?!
Do you really expect Blizz to spend time detecting specs when the way specs work (and therefore the programming involved to detect) will have to be redeveloped in the next planned content patch afterwards?
Do you really want to wait on these features until then? Oh, well I guess you can simply not use LFR until the next expansion, if LFR even proves successful enough to use next expansion. And if it doesn't would you really like it to be like Path of the Titans where they work on it so long, just to drop it, and either way they push the release date back as a result?
I really get the feeling that any expansion from here out will have some features test driven in the last patch for these reasons. Who knows? Maybe Dance Studio will come out in 5.3.
Sidfish Nov 24th 2011 5:50AM
@Cambro
"You're implying that they're releasing stuff that's "broken". What they're actually doing is releasing new features that aren't as full-featured as you would like them to be."
We have a difference of opinion here. I don't consider spec detection a feature. It's an integral part of the system that will quell what's sure to be it's biggest pitfall: loot drama.
I didn't mean to imply the system is "broken", just that it doesn't have the polish that Blizzard usually prides itself on. Not being able to queue for older raids is such minor issue it probably wasn't worth mentioning. It seems like a missed opportunity is all.
@icepyro
"Do you really expect Blizz to retune every single raid when the next planned content patch afterwards is going to require them to retune every single raid (again)?!"
Did I say I wanted re-tuned raids? No. They won't be re-tuning any of the previous tiers in MoP. I'm not sure where you're even getting that idea. It would just be an easy way for people to clear the older content to get transmog gear. Good job putting words in my mouth though.
"Do you really expect Blizz to spend time detecting specs when the way specs work (and therefore the programming involved to detect) will have to be redeveloped in the next planned content patch afterwards?"
Yes, I do. Is that too much to ask of a multi-billion dollar company?
"Do you really want to wait on these features until then?"
Again, your reading comprehension is nowhere to be found. I don't mind it being released in this state if it means MoP will come sooner than later. At least that's a valid reason for not putting polish on it.
@ Peewee
"Not to mention it gives them time to measure the product to see if it'll be worth it spending more money on development."
If R&D even applies here it's pretty clear they're well past that. The Raid Finder won't be going anywhere nor will it be left to languish.