Dev Watercooler: Faction favoritism
Lead Quest Designer Dave "Fargo" Kosak has just posted the latest Dev Watercooler. This time, the topic is faction balance. In the wake of BlizzCon, this perennial topic has flared up pretty brightly. While the devs did indicate they wanted to give the Alliance a bit more good stuff during some panels, some other incidents during and after BlizzCon (including the news that Theramore, one of the most iconic Alliance cities, will be razed to the ground) has left some doubtful, leading to intense debates and 100+ page forum threads on the subject.
The way Kosak explains it, the devs definitely want to make sure that there is faction pride for both sides, and, he argues, while the Alliance may be getting beat up, the Horde has taken its share of lumps too. But in the long run, heroes are not born out of easy times. The Alliance will go through tough times, but it will give heroes the opportunity to arise. The Alliance's time is coming.
One thing he did admit to is that Blizzard needs to do a better job of making sure people can interact with their heroes. He acknowledges that the Alliance may not think of Thrall as theirs or part of their story, and he promises that once Cataclysm as over, we will catch up with other characters.
Whether you agree with all of his reasonings and conclusions or not, it's a good read, and it does prove that Blizzard is hearing us and is at least planning to try to address some of the complaints of faction parity and Thrall overload. Check after the break for the complete text of Kosak's post.
Dave "Fargo" Kosak
The way Kosak explains it, the devs definitely want to make sure that there is faction pride for both sides, and, he argues, while the Alliance may be getting beat up, the Horde has taken its share of lumps too. But in the long run, heroes are not born out of easy times. The Alliance will go through tough times, but it will give heroes the opportunity to arise. The Alliance's time is coming.
One thing he did admit to is that Blizzard needs to do a better job of making sure people can interact with their heroes. He acknowledges that the Alliance may not think of Thrall as theirs or part of their story, and he promises that once Cataclysm as over, we will catch up with other characters.
Whether you agree with all of his reasonings and conclusions or not, it's a good read, and it does prove that Blizzard is hearing us and is at least planning to try to address some of the complaints of faction parity and Thrall overload. Check after the break for the complete text of Kosak's post.
One of our earliest design goals with World of Warcraft was to ensure a healthy rivalry between the Alliance and the Horde. Cross-faction communication was banned outright, even where it made little or no sense in the lore. Entire realms are dedicated to PvP. Battlegrounds and quest hubs feature prominent Alliance and Horde iconography. We want to foster a sense of factional pride, a real identity with your brothers and sisters in arms.
We want players to be proud of their faction, even at the expense of personal dignity. One time I was driving my wife home from dinner. She leaned out of the car window, threw the horns, and screamed "FOR THE HORDE!" at some dude who was standing outside the restaurant in his Horde hockey jersey. Poor guy probably forgot he was wearing it. We peeled off in a thick cloud of blue tire smoke, and I think we made him pee.
That's what I'm talking about.
So when it comes to the game's ongoing story developments, it's no surprise that Alliance and Horde fans are "keeping score." Maps and charts of territory gained and lost started showing up around the time the Cataclysm shook the world to its foundations. Southshore plagued? Taurajo burned? Oh no they didn't!
Implicit amidst most of the grumbling from either side is the assumption that Blizzard should be fairly treating both factions. Then there's the more explicit assumption: if one faction is losing ground, then Blizzard must be biased.
Are we?
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. Of Warcraft.
Maybe we are. A quick survey of Azeroth's history reveals that we've been punishing the Alliance for generations. Stormwind was razed by orcs back in Warcraft I. Then Lordaeron fell to the plague in Warcraft III, its inhabitants turned into a mindless mob of undead. High-elven allies were besieged by the scourge and had their city sacked and their source of power corrupted. (The survivors of both these atrocities found solace in the Horde.) The gnomish capital was irradiated. The dwarven kingdoms were shattered by a terrible civil war. I'm surprised there's an Alliance left at all.
On the other hand, those humans got off easy -- at least they still have a planet. The orc homeworld was overrun with demons and obliterated. Almost the entire race was poisoned by demonic blood. By the end of Warcraft II, what little remained of the orc race was stranded on an alien world, defeated, sullen, weak, and locked away in human-controlled internment camps.
I'm sure glad we didn't have orc forums back then! Imagine the outrage.
In truth, a historical account of the Warcraft universe reads like a war crimes trial. Empires topple, leaders are corrupted, populations are massacred, entire civilizations fall to ruin (often at their peak of power)... Warcraft is a dark place. Just ask the Draenei: We trashed their homeworld and tortured its last uncorrupted children for tens of thousands of years. We're downright cruel. I've never met a more sadistic team of story folk.
Suffering is the gasoline that drives our story engine. Why is that?
The Hero Factory
Here at Blizzard, we often talk about what we're trying to build with the fiction of the Warcraft universe. The phrase "Hero Factory" frequently comes up across all of our franchises. We want the players to feel like heroes.
The primordial soup that creates heroes never tastes of rainbows -- it's a lumpy gumbo of suffering and evil. Heroes are born from darkness, because we desperately need someone to light the way.
It's an unfair world that cries out for heroes. To bring order out of chaos and justice to the downtrodden is the hero's call. Is it any wonder that Azeroth is an unfair place? It's monstrously unfair. And it's going to stay that way.
Of Story Arcs and Storied Orcs
We can guarantee an unfair and inequitable treatment of both factions for now and in the foreseeable future. This allows us to have richer long-term story arcs, another idea that we've been experimenting with since the build-up to Cataclysm. To see the factions ebb and flow as their leaders get embroiled in all manner of heroism or skullduggery is like a reward for long-time players.
Speaking of faction leaders, that's one area where I think we can do better: Giving everyone a chance to interact with their heroes throughout the story. In creating this universe, I'll admit that we at Blizzard often fall into a trap of thinking of our main characters as "world" characters and not individual faction characters.
For example, the events of the cataclysm put in motion some major story developments for Thrall, who'd been sitting relatively idle in Orgrimmar since the events of Warcraft III. He was forced to choose between his role as warchief and as a shaman who could potentially save the world. He set aside the warchief's mantle and, with your help, he'll play an instrumental role in bringing an end to Deathwing.
But there's a price to pay. Thrall sacrificed something.
The Horde has gone through a story arc of its own, since the days when the ragged refugee orcs first stumbled onto the beaches of Kalimdor and decided to found a new capital. The Horde races have united and consolidated. The Forsaken, no longer tormented by the Lich King, have secured their borders. The tauren have settled a homeland. The Darkspear trolls, once on the brink of extinction thanks to murlocs (murlocs!), have rallied together and founded a capital. The blood elves have survived the destruction of their home, moved beyond the defection of their leader, and reclaimed the Sunwell. The Horde is absolutely ascendant.
And in this moment, as one of the most powerful groups of mortals on Azeroth seeks to define itself, Thrall is out of the picture. The Horde's mission is being defined by Garrosh Hellscream. Thrall's decision to leave him in charge is coming back to haunt him.
If you're a die-hard Alliance player, I can understand if you feel left out of Thrall's story arc. Thrall feels like "their guy," and Thrall's journey over the last couple of years may not feel like "your" story, even if his mistakes are about to send the whole world into a potential death spiral. Fair enough. Stick with Thrall as he fulfills his destiny at the end of Cataclysm, and I promise we'll catch up with other characters -- from both factions -- as we pick up the pieces in the aftermath.
Garrosh Hellscream has a vision for the Horde, a vision of a united Kalimdor that can only be realized over the ashes of the Alliance. He's craftier than any of his foes realize, and his grim determination to win at all costs -- even at the expense of his own people -- is plunging the world into chaos.
In the midst of this crisis, the Alliance is going to need to pull together like never before. At the BlizzCon lore panel we promised that key Alliance characters are going to get more time in the spotlight throughout Mists and the subsequent patches, and I wanted to reiterate that here. They're going to come out of this stronger than ever, but the road ahead won't be easy.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. A lot worse. But that's a good thing. It means we're going to need a lot more heroes to bring justice to an unjust world. We're going to need you to step up and reshape the world.
Just don't expect a Happily Ever After. We just don't do those here.
Dave "Fargo" Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft. His job is to maintain the integrity of the Warcraft world and storyline through gameplay, while simultaneously chucking bear cubs onto trampolines. It's a fine line, but he walks it with the unwavering deftness of a quarterback on one of those old vibrating Electric Football games.
We want players to be proud of their faction, even at the expense of personal dignity. One time I was driving my wife home from dinner. She leaned out of the car window, threw the horns, and screamed "FOR THE HORDE!" at some dude who was standing outside the restaurant in his Horde hockey jersey. Poor guy probably forgot he was wearing it. We peeled off in a thick cloud of blue tire smoke, and I think we made him pee.
That's what I'm talking about.
So when it comes to the game's ongoing story developments, it's no surprise that Alliance and Horde fans are "keeping score." Maps and charts of territory gained and lost started showing up around the time the Cataclysm shook the world to its foundations. Southshore plagued? Taurajo burned? Oh no they didn't!
Implicit amidst most of the grumbling from either side is the assumption that Blizzard should be fairly treating both factions. Then there's the more explicit assumption: if one faction is losing ground, then Blizzard must be biased.
Are we?
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. Of Warcraft.
Maybe we are. A quick survey of Azeroth's history reveals that we've been punishing the Alliance for generations. Stormwind was razed by orcs back in Warcraft I. Then Lordaeron fell to the plague in Warcraft III, its inhabitants turned into a mindless mob of undead. High-elven allies were besieged by the scourge and had their city sacked and their source of power corrupted. (The survivors of both these atrocities found solace in the Horde.) The gnomish capital was irradiated. The dwarven kingdoms were shattered by a terrible civil war. I'm surprised there's an Alliance left at all.
On the other hand, those humans got off easy -- at least they still have a planet. The orc homeworld was overrun with demons and obliterated. Almost the entire race was poisoned by demonic blood. By the end of Warcraft II, what little remained of the orc race was stranded on an alien world, defeated, sullen, weak, and locked away in human-controlled internment camps.
I'm sure glad we didn't have orc forums back then! Imagine the outrage.
In truth, a historical account of the Warcraft universe reads like a war crimes trial. Empires topple, leaders are corrupted, populations are massacred, entire civilizations fall to ruin (often at their peak of power)... Warcraft is a dark place. Just ask the Draenei: We trashed their homeworld and tortured its last uncorrupted children for tens of thousands of years. We're downright cruel. I've never met a more sadistic team of story folk.
Suffering is the gasoline that drives our story engine. Why is that?
The Hero Factory
Here at Blizzard, we often talk about what we're trying to build with the fiction of the Warcraft universe. The phrase "Hero Factory" frequently comes up across all of our franchises. We want the players to feel like heroes.
The primordial soup that creates heroes never tastes of rainbows -- it's a lumpy gumbo of suffering and evil. Heroes are born from darkness, because we desperately need someone to light the way.
It's an unfair world that cries out for heroes. To bring order out of chaos and justice to the downtrodden is the hero's call. Is it any wonder that Azeroth is an unfair place? It's monstrously unfair. And it's going to stay that way.
Of Story Arcs and Storied Orcs
We can guarantee an unfair and inequitable treatment of both factions for now and in the foreseeable future. This allows us to have richer long-term story arcs, another idea that we've been experimenting with since the build-up to Cataclysm. To see the factions ebb and flow as their leaders get embroiled in all manner of heroism or skullduggery is like a reward for long-time players.
Speaking of faction leaders, that's one area where I think we can do better: Giving everyone a chance to interact with their heroes throughout the story. In creating this universe, I'll admit that we at Blizzard often fall into a trap of thinking of our main characters as "world" characters and not individual faction characters.
For example, the events of the cataclysm put in motion some major story developments for Thrall, who'd been sitting relatively idle in Orgrimmar since the events of Warcraft III. He was forced to choose between his role as warchief and as a shaman who could potentially save the world. He set aside the warchief's mantle and, with your help, he'll play an instrumental role in bringing an end to Deathwing.
But there's a price to pay. Thrall sacrificed something.
The Horde has gone through a story arc of its own, since the days when the ragged refugee orcs first stumbled onto the beaches of Kalimdor and decided to found a new capital. The Horde races have united and consolidated. The Forsaken, no longer tormented by the Lich King, have secured their borders. The tauren have settled a homeland. The Darkspear trolls, once on the brink of extinction thanks to murlocs (murlocs!), have rallied together and founded a capital. The blood elves have survived the destruction of their home, moved beyond the defection of their leader, and reclaimed the Sunwell. The Horde is absolutely ascendant.
And in this moment, as one of the most powerful groups of mortals on Azeroth seeks to define itself, Thrall is out of the picture. The Horde's mission is being defined by Garrosh Hellscream. Thrall's decision to leave him in charge is coming back to haunt him.
If you're a die-hard Alliance player, I can understand if you feel left out of Thrall's story arc. Thrall feels like "their guy," and Thrall's journey over the last couple of years may not feel like "your" story, even if his mistakes are about to send the whole world into a potential death spiral. Fair enough. Stick with Thrall as he fulfills his destiny at the end of Cataclysm, and I promise we'll catch up with other characters -- from both factions -- as we pick up the pieces in the aftermath.
Garrosh Hellscream has a vision for the Horde, a vision of a united Kalimdor that can only be realized over the ashes of the Alliance. He's craftier than any of his foes realize, and his grim determination to win at all costs -- even at the expense of his own people -- is plunging the world into chaos.
In the midst of this crisis, the Alliance is going to need to pull together like never before. At the BlizzCon lore panel we promised that key Alliance characters are going to get more time in the spotlight throughout Mists and the subsequent patches, and I wanted to reiterate that here. They're going to come out of this stronger than ever, but the road ahead won't be easy.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. A lot worse. But that's a good thing. It means we're going to need a lot more heroes to bring justice to an unjust world. We're going to need you to step up and reshape the world.
Just don't expect a Happily Ever After. We just don't do those here.
Dave "Fargo" Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft. His job is to maintain the integrity of the Warcraft world and storyline through gameplay, while simultaneously chucking bear cubs onto trampolines. It's a fine line, but he walks it with the unwavering deftness of a quarterback on one of those old vibrating Electric Football games.
Filed under: Blizzard, News items, Lore







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 14)
Meerkatx Nov 25th 2011 3:06PM
Once again more platitudes from Blizzard without any actual evidence they will follow through in creating in game lore for Alliance on par with Horde. WoW has become the story of Thrall and the Horde while those who play Alliance are just passengers on the Horde train.
SamLowry Nov 25th 2011 3:15PM
And there was no addressing of the obvious Horde bias at Blizzcon, either. When the guy in charge of lore comes charging out in a Horde shirt and simply won't shut up about Thrall, you really have to wonder.
Everclear Nov 25th 2011 5:33PM
Actually here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gftjNpAlEB4
At the 7:12 mark, he asks Chris Metzen himself if Alliance will ever get to "kick ass" in WoW.
na.alnaji Nov 25th 2011 5:52PM
@Everclear that sounds really badass
Alchemistmerlin Nov 25th 2011 6:42PM
God, the WoW community is...is just the worst.
The factions don't exist, they are a construct, you are getting upset that your fake political allegiance is not as well represented as someone else's fake political allegiance.
RetPallyJil Nov 25th 2011 6:59PM
Hey there Merlin ... you seem pretty anti-fan for someone who's bothered to make 811 posts here at WoW Insider.
Blayze Nov 25th 2011 8:10PM
"What are you doing with Tyrande?"
"THRALL THRALL THRALL"
"Will the Alliance ever kick ass?"
"We're making Varian the Blue Warchief!"
This is the same rhetoric we keep hearing. The same "we're going to do more with the Draenei" lines fed to keep us quiet while they continued to misuse and barely implement the Worgen.
I don't want to "stick with Thrall." He's had enough of a spotlight already. Dude was *essential* to saving the world--where do you go from there? What possible character arc could follow, what possible threat could follow? He should have died there and then, because now we've got a character who should solve all the planet's problems--but won't.
Reed Richards is useless, after all.
Moonfaxx Nov 26th 2011 1:07AM
Thrall.
Let the record show that my proud Alliance self would rather fight alongside Deathwing to kill Thrall than vice-versa.
Thrall is Horde, and he will never NOT be Horde. Kill the orcish pig.
SamLowry Nov 26th 2011 1:59AM
"Dude was *essential* to saving the world--where do you go from there? What possible character arc could follow, what possible threat could follow?"
Crucifixion, resurrection...you know the drill.
Angrycelt Nov 26th 2011 3:53AM
Yeah, I loved the "But the Horde has had bad things too! The orcs lost their whole world!"
What they seem to be willfully oblivious to is that nearly every bad thing the Horde has had to "suffer through" happened before we even played the original Warcraft RTS. By contrast, Lordaeron, Arthas, Kul-Tiras, Gilneas, Southshore, Auberdine, Sentinel Hill, Andorhal... and more... have all happened in-game over the course of the original RTS games and WoW. Alliance players watched as their icons and virtual homes were wiped out by the Horde, the Scourge, and Deathwing. Stormwind park falls into the sea and Ogrimmar gets a facelift. Freewind Post becomes ocean front property but Menethil Harbor gets half sunken.
Horde may counter with Camp Taurajo, I riposte with Hillsbrad.
The gist of the entire message is "Well, it'll probably get better, just buy our next expansion and we'll get on that, but first we're gonna make it even worse because that's more interesting, right?"
Heck, the Battle for the Undercity was good example of the cruel tease. Varian gets the Alliance all pumped up to clean house once and for all; we charge in full of righteous fury, ready to retake Lordaeron and finally exterminate the Forsaken. We fight and slaughter everything in sight, only to be 'ported out at the last moment by the ridiculously powerful resident Horde sympathizer Jaina. That seems to be Blizz's way. Here's something so cool... that we're gonna give to someone else.
3 more months 'til I run out of my 6 month billing cycle. Blizz has that long to remind me why I played for so long in the first place. And it's not panda bears and pet battles.
Edymnion Nov 26th 2011 12:03PM
I do so love how the Alliance players like to rattle off all the zones they've lost to the Horde, and how they never actually bother to mention that for 6 out of the 7 years this game has been out there were more Alliance zones than there were Horde. Because yes, clearly its evidence of a Horde bias to actually, you know, balance out the zones.
Face it kiddos, Blizzard did have a bias towards one faction for the majority of the game. It was for the Alliance. They're just evening the score now.
Papa Bear Nov 26th 2011 5:56PM
I have one question: didn't the whole WotLK mess (i.e. mass deaths and destruction) happen because one Alliance prince, who initially wanted to defend his people, murdered his father, went power mad and nearly destroyed everything and everyone?
I'm just pointing this out because people tend to say that Orcs basically get what they deserved (your ancestors drank demon blood etc.)
I mean, since the Orcs (or the Horde as a whole) are to blame for so much, wouldn't it be also honourable to take at least some responsibility for what was the theme of a whole expansion?
na.alnaji Nov 26th 2011 10:44PM
@Edymnion
it's not the same. Losing zones isn't the same as not starting with them in the first place. And let's forget about the zone count, cause that's not everything. Here are a bunch of other stuff:
-Worgen don't see anything related to them past level 15. You actually have to play horde to see the rest of the story. It's like what's happening with the Draenei now, except the Draenei had their own expansion. Worgen aren't even getting it in their own expansion.
-Orgrimmar got a huge overhaul. Stormwind didn't.
-Twilight Highlands experience.
-Barely any faction leader stories (except for Malfurion). What the hell happened to the council of three hammers? We only get to see a bit about them in Dun Morogh 1-10. Varian, who's supposed to be the Supreme Leader of the Alliance, isn't doing much. On the Horde there's Garrosh, Vol'jin, and Sylvanas all kicking ass.
And it's not just about the zone count. It's about the constant losses. It doesn't feel good to see yourself fail.
Transit Nov 27th 2011 12:20AM
(I am not sure if my first post got through. If this ends up being a double post I apologize.)
@na.alnaji
"-Orgrimmar got a huge overhaul. Stormwind didn't."
How many Inns were there in SW in Vanilla, how many are there in Cata?
How many Banks were there in SW in Vanilla, how many are there in Cata?
How many Ah's were there in SW in Vanilla, how many are there in Cata?
Was the cemetery there in Vanilla? Was the palace as large? Did the sell mounts in SW in Vanilla? When was that farm land in the city introduced?
Was there a dock in vanilla? Were the textures in the city the same?
Blizzard redid the entire city for Cata from what it was in Wotlk. If you watched the behind the scenes video it shows that Stormwind was in no way prepared for flying mounts.
•••
Varian is NOT the supreme leader of the Alliance. The alliance is kinda like Nato, several factions contribute to it. But it is not controlled by any one faction per se. The alliance have a lot of pull because mainly they put in the most troops.
But really if it were not for outside forces threatening the various factions (the horde, the burning legion, etc.) the Night Elves would probably still be killing human paladins when they got anywhere near Teldrassil.
They band together out of mutual protection, but if Varian went in to Ironforge on a state visit and started ordering the Dwarves around, trouble WILL start.
Muse Nov 25th 2011 3:08PM
So essentially, "Yeah, we're biased, and we don't see where the problem is, so it's going to stay that way. Oh and Allies, you get to lose for another expansion, it's for the good of the story, kk?"
Belara Nov 25th 2011 3:59PM
"key Alliance characters are going to get more time in the spotlight throughout Mists and the subsequent patches, and I wanted to reiterate that here. They're going to come out of this stronger than ever, but the road ahead won't be easy"
What I took from that is that key Alliance characters are going to get more time in the spotlight throughout Mists and the subsequent patches, and will come out of it stronger than ever. Though, to be fair, I'm only basing that on what he wrote, rather than what I'd already decided he was going to say.
fudge Nov 25th 2011 4:52PM
If "more time for Alliance characters" translates to
- be Varian's squire!
- help Jaina over the loss of her kingdom!
- read about all of this in a book while none of it is adressed in game!
then yeah, that's not worth much.
Nawaf Nov 25th 2011 5:10PM
I really don't get what the hell is wrong with Blizzard. Half of their players are complaining about being the other half's punching bag for two years, and instead of fix that they're giving us more loses so that the Horde gets a good story.
Players aren't complaining about Thrall. We don't really care about Thrall that much. Brann, Tirion, Jaina, and Bolvar have had their highlights in Wrath and few complained about it.
WTF seriously?
Transit Nov 25th 2011 5:46PM
@Nawaf
I am trying to understand your post. Are you being ironic or are you actually saying that Blizzard should stick to developing alliance npc's like "Brann, Tirion, Jaina, and Bolvar" because the player base doesn't complain about the development of alliance npcs.
Nawaf Nov 25th 2011 6:15PM
@Transit I'm saying that Thrall isn't the problem. It's not what most Alliance players are mad at. Single characters like Thrall, Jaina, Brann, and Tirion aren't the problem.