Raid Rx: Checking out level 90 talents
by Matt Low 
Nov 25th 2011 at 7:00PM
That new Mists of Pandaria talent calculator is out. Had a chance to look through it? You might've been alarmed at the fact that several key spells appear to be missing from the list of skills and such. Not to worry, though, since Bashiok clarified that it was still under development. Anything missing is (hopefully) unintentional. A few classes are given previews of new skills trainable past level 85. The classes that don't have their stuff created yet are presumably still being worked on.
Did you see that new paladin skill that's post level 85? Blinding Light is essentially an AoE blind. Looks like it'll be trainable for all specs.
Notice how none of the off-healing specs have any spell above the inefficient heal? For example, it looks like shadow priests won't have access to Heal or Greater Heal but have the ability to use Flash Heal.
I still feel distressed when I look at the section for the druids. That new Symbiosis skill at level 87 shows promise. It'll depend largely on what the skills will be.
Symbiosis (level 87)
4% of base mana, 30-yard range, instant cast
Creates a symbiotic link which grants the druid one ability belonging to the target's class, varying by the druid's specialization.
So you might be wondering to yourself why you feel down when looking at the proposed talents for druids. Now, you know, I've always been a healer at heart. Looking at the talents, I never saw anything really worthwhile for the healing druids. A few of the talents appear to be a lock. I'm sure Nature's Swiftness or Cenarion Ward will continue to be a lock. Force of Nature and Incarnation will no doubt be awesome.
Actually, my main point of concern involves the level 90 talents. Max-level talents have always been the strongest talents available for a class. In many cases, it even defined the spec. If you think about it going all the way back to classic and every expansion onward, the final talent was typically an ability that could have altered the game (and it didn't matter if you were PvE- or PvP-focused). I remember when the original discipline priest talent was Divine Spirit, and the holy priest talent was Holy Nova (and I believe this was patch 1.9). Warriors of the arms variety had the option of selecting Mortal Strike as their finisher.
Big talents, little use?
Looking at the level 90 talents of the other healing classes, though, notice how that the majority of them can be used in the primary role of the healer. A shaman can use Totemic Projection and manually direct their totems wherever they see fit which is useful for resto. A priest can splash heal everyone with Vampiric Dominance or utilize Void Shift to save a player. Paladins with Divine Purpose have a chance to gain free, large healing spells, whereas Sanctified Wrath leads to a spammable Holy Shock.
Swinging back to druids now, I understand the mentality behind talents like Heart of the Wild and Master Shapeshifter. The design approach here is to offer druids increased flexibility in roles other than that of their primary spec. Hey, I get that, and I see where it's coming from. I don't think that's such a great idea, though. The max-level talent has always felt to me as the skill that helped players define and maximize their primary roles. A priest making that level 90 talent selection can rest easy knowing that one of those three talents at the bottom of the tree would be an excellent choice.
Now I'm not a game designer or anything by any means. But I know that I wouldn't go after a talent skill that offered me great benefits when I was doing something other than what I was supposed to be doing. Take Heart of the Wild, for example. Why would I be rewarded with a talent that I can only use once every 6 minutes that offers me a benefit in a role that isn't my primary role? Master Shapeshifter means you need to DPS in another form that's not your main one before you can benefit in your ideal form (at least, if I understand the wording right). Looks like it is designed to alter the DPS rotations and stuff.
A whole new direction for talents?
Now, Joe disagrees with me, and we've had a long, passionate discussion about this. He believes that the talents are heading in a different direction where there shouldn't be like a super-talent that's mandatory, and I understand what he's saying. They're all designed to help with different utility aspects. He thinks I don't get it (and he could very well be right)!
That's not the point I'm trying to illustrate. My point is that there should be a good selection of talents that are both usable and desired at every tier, no matter what your role is. These talents should help you with your main role, not require you to do something that goes against what you signed up for.
Anyway, maybe I'm blowing this way out of proportion. Just to be clear, I love the choices and the directions we're going in. I can't wait to try them out in person. It isn't even in beta yet, and I'm certain there will be numerous changes. Granted, my main isn't a druid, but I still have one lying around. What do you guys think?
Need advice on working with the healers in your guild? Raid Rx has you covered. Send your questions about raid healing to mattl@wowinsider.com. For less healer-centric raiding advice, visit Ready Check for advanced tactics and advice for the endgame raider.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, Mists of Pandaria, Raid Rx (Raid Healing)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
sandbergk Nov 25th 2011 7:16PM
Max level talent is irrelevant because we are topping out our trees around 70 as it is and those other points are going to other talent trees. I don't see that as a valid complaint.
However, I agree that there should be something useful to your role otherwise you could careless where you put the point and I don't think they want that.
Teh Psh Nov 25th 2011 7:43PM
He's talking about in mop. Where you only have 6 talents and there's no designated tree for a spec
Scard Nov 25th 2011 7:47PM
Sandbergk has a point. Under our current system, our "end" talent is actually acquired at around level 70 (once we reach 31 talent points). The talent points from 70-85 are "filler" talents where we further bulk our main tree, or branch out to others. So that Fire Mage that just hit 85 isn't all excited about finally being able to use Living Bomb, he's been using it for 15 levels. His decision is more about whether or not to put that final point into Piercing Ice in the frost tree or take something he skipped on his way to Living Bomb.
For me, the new talent trees are somewhat underwhelming. Primarily from the point I think Matt is trying to make, the level 90 talent point choice is very . . . meh. As a mage I get to pick which change to Polymorph I get: Sickly, Heavy or Double. Don't get me wrong, having a sheep and a pig up and prancing around them as I nuke the living daylights out of their friends is exciting. But it doesn't make me all of a sudden uber special, which is what Matt seems to want for his character when he hits 90.
ManiacHaywire Nov 25th 2011 7:49PM
I just want to bring to your attention that Shaman Lvl 90 Talents are the worst of them all. As of yet, they've reduced the number of totem incredibly, making Elemental Harmony worthless, especially if your not Resto. Totemic Restoration seems overpowered at this point and will probably be nerfed. And Totem Projection is probably the best and worst at the same time, if you read the tooltip, it says "Relocates your active totems to the specified location." Read active. That means it's horrible for Spirit Link Totem, as you would need to put the totem down first and then move it, probably at the cost of a few ticks. And Most other totems aren't really location specific, seeing as they have a 40 yd range... unless they nerf the range.
Angus Nov 25th 2011 8:36PM
Yep.
They stated fire totems aren't included in harmony. Additionally you almost have to take the new totems to make it worth something as it appears that there are like 6 totems total.
Projection costs ticks and is going to be meh anyway. Something that should be baseline isn't something that should be a top tier talent. Shaman have said constantly the ability to target where their totems go would be the best quality of life improvement they could make.
Oh and what resto shaman won't take fortifying waters? Melee getting 10% less damage while being healed? Where do I sign? Heck, Enhancement might be grabbing it.
Matt Nov 25th 2011 9:41PM
Oh I don't know about that... taken a look @ the Mage lvl 90 talents?
Would you like a sick sheep, a stunned sheep, or 2 sheep?
That just plain sucks.
ManiacHaywire Nov 25th 2011 11:19PM
But at least they're somewhat useful if not mildly underwhelming. Also, you don't have totems sooo. YOU DONT KNOW OUR PAIN. lol.
Boobah Nov 26th 2011 2:36AM
The worst thing about Totemic Projection is that those totems we always wanted to move? Those are the totems that are going away; we've been told that those buffs are going to be auras, but if so, they haven't shown up in the currently shown abilities.
Caveat: Totemic Projection definitely has some use for wrangling your Fire Elemental. The big moron is a little less likely to ignore a Flame Shocked mob that's standing on top of his totem.
Beyond that, most of the totems we have left have fairly short durations so you don't have time to leave them behind.
Draig Nov 26th 2011 5:50AM
100% agree with this. As it stands shamans are left with 6 baseline totems including 0 water totems, all with short durations and/or long cooldowns. Most of them are situational in PvE and on many boss fights there will be no call to drop any of them.
Resto at least has mana tide and spirit link but they have a cooldown so you cannot drop more than one, and the short duration means there's no need to move them around and no time to do it anyway. Totems don't get destroyed in PvE so the other talent doesn't seem useful either.
Hopefully things will change because as it stands I don't think that a PvE shaman would get a noticable benefit from *any* of our top-tier talents.
Covil Dec 19th 2011 9:50PM
The only way I can think of to satisfy your desire for all 3 choices of every tier to be equally useful at all 4 druid spec's main role is for every talent to be nothing but "Does X for Y spec, A for B spec, and J for K spec" Which would make for a very boring talent.
Thorngrip Nov 25th 2011 8:53PM
In some ways it would have been better if Blizz just renamed the new system to something like "perks" or "tricks" or whatever. It's an entirely new system with a different purpose in the game and design philosophy. "Talents" is a nice word to describe it but that familiar word is making players look for familiar patterns from the old system which just aren't present in the new one.
For example, you're looking for the familiar pattern of gameplay-changing max level talents that really shore up your chosen spec. Thing is, that shouldn't be looked for in the MoP talent system... the equivalent should be a level 90 ability specific to your spec that you learn automatically (a "trained" ability). I realize that's currently not found in the abilities' list, which is kind of odd but then as they say this is a "pre-alpha" sketch thrown out in a hurry.
If the lvl 90 talent tier of a hybrid class had an obvious choice of / / , it would betray the whole concept of the talent system and be a failure as it wouldn't involve any choice (besides the spec choice you already made).
Hih Nov 25th 2011 10:47PM
I think if they just switched the Druid level 60 talent tier with the level 90 talent tier, then Mr. Low's biggest objection that "The last tier of talents aren't all that special" would be gone. It wouldn't change the fact that the current level 90 tier is silly and extremely niche, but if they swapped tiers, at least the level 90 talents would be something you look forward to.
The level 60 tier is the Charge/Incarnation/Treants tier and the tier that all 4 specs are most looking forward to getting. Really, the only tier that all 4 specs are really looking forward to getting.
Puntable Nov 26th 2011 1:13AM
Healers seem to get the short end of the stick for talents, and here's why. Examples: If they give you a choice between a healing talent, a dps talent, and a pvp talent, then all the healers take the healing talent, and everyone has the same spec.
If they give you a choice of 3 talents that can effect all those roles, then the talents end up being weak.
Pure DPS classes don't have this catch-22, since they can give them a choice between 3 different dps talents.
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mitch_b_666 Nov 26th 2011 1:27PM
They could make Symbiosis so that if you popped it whilst not targeting anyone, it would turn into a spell that benefited your spec. For example, a resto druid could pop it, and he would summon some treants that would run around and smart heal players, preferring those those out of the druid's range.