The return of raid stacking?

Many people are currently all in a tizzy over the recently released ability lists and talent trees for all of the classes in the next expansion. I suppose I too am no different in this respect. Yet while all others are in their throes of joy (or desperately pleading for changes), I am struck with a thought, a concern if you will, that leaves me slightly worried for the future of raiding. At some point in time, a great wise man once said that we are doomed to repeat history and all that jazz often if we fail to remember it. Sometimes I feel that he is only half right.
Much like Know Your Lore, this week is something of a tinfoil-hat deal, meaning that it's all speculation on my part. I could be wrong -- in fact, this time around I beg to be incorrect -- but I am merely reporting what it is that I see trending. Take it all with a grain of salt.
A brief turn in history
At this point, you must be wondering what I'm talking about. My friends, I am predicting the return of raid stacking. For those who were more committed raiders during The Burning Crusade, you would know well the horrible consequences that raid stacking has and all that it entails. What's important to note that is raid stacking was never a requirement to actually down content, it as merely a convenient shortcut. Why spend weeks, possibly months farming the first three or so bosses of a single raid in order to get enough gear in order to complete a raid when you could fudge your numbers by stacking specific specs?
Raid stacking was never a requirement imposed by Blizzard. It was merely the easiest method of clearing content -- and thus, it was all that was used. With Wrath, Blizzard attempted to fix the matter of raid stacking by introducing the Bring the player, not the class design strategy. The crux of this entire philosophy hinged upon a single matter: that no class, no spec, would ever bring something so powerfully unique that it made it a requirement. The bits about damage balance were superfluous to the core utility design; after all, shaman were terrible damage in The Burning Crusade, but they were stacked without end for Bloodlust.
That's all a wonderful history lesson, but what does it have to do with raid stacking in the next expansion? Well, just look at the talent trees.
Setting up for the fall
Once more, Blizzard is going through a massive talent system redesign, only this time it is far different from any other revamp that we've seen so far. It's often been talked about how Blizzard wants player talents to focus on utility over damage, but it's never been able to pin that down -- at least until now. Now all of the talents do focus exclusively on utility for the most part, which is rather the issue.
In Blizzard's efforts to equalize DPS and utility among the classes, it's actually left them far more vulnerable to raid stacking than they were before. All it takes is one spec to grossly outperform the rest, one utility ability to be far too valuable, and suddenly you have players game-round that are clamoring for that class. And that is exactly what we are setting ourselves up for in Mists of Pandaria.
Each talent has a distinct focus on utility, and while there is a significant amount of crossover between the classes, such as talent tiers that focus on control or a strong damage cooldown, there is also a large focus on individuality. This is all well and good. The intentions of making the classes more distinct is a noble goal. But the game of balancing utility is far more difficult than balancing raw damage.
An example of potential abuse
Allow me an extreme example. Druids have a talent called Heart of the Wild. It's a 6-minute cooldown that allows them to fulfill a secondary raiding role for 45 seconds – allowing a DPS to heal or tank, a healer to tank or DPS, or a tank to heal or DPS. Now obviously, a DPS using Heart of the Wild isn't going to be as good as a tank as a pure tank, but in order for this talent to hold any value at all, it does have to be possible for them to use it in order to effectively tank for a time. Potentially, why would you ever need an off tank? If you could merely stack three or four DPS druids instead of taking an off tank, why bother with the off tank at all?
What situations require for us to use an off tank right now? Clearly, this wouldn't work on an encounter such as Shannox that has a persistent add that needs to be tanked, but there's no reason it couldn't work on an encounter such as Baleroc where all you need is a quick tank for Decimation Blade, or Beth'tilac, where all you need is an off tank for a short period of time on an add and then to take a debuff. It may seem strange. It may seem like excessive work. But top-end guilds have done more for a minor DPS gain on a boss, and if it becomes popular within the high end, it always trickles down to the low end.
Matters of survivability and raid utility
That's an extreme example, though. It's far more likely that we'll see the matter of survivability stacking to become much more prominent. Compare bringing, say, a second mage to a second warlock. Warlocks can passively heal themselves for 15% of their damage, passively split damage with their demon, and have a shield they can use for 20% of their maximum health. Mages do have Ice Block, potentially Ice Barrier, and then either Cauterize or Cold Snap. The warlocks are far more survivable, but the mages aren't useless -- they still have their own survivability options.
Now compare that to shaman who can heal the entire raid with a cooldown while also having their own survivability skills, or to priests who can bring a major tank healing cooldown or can passively heal three people for 15% of their damage done. The fact that any paladin now has Ardent Defender and the power of that ability goes well without saying; people already prefer paladin tanks on heroic Staghelm because it allows them to cheese every other Flame Scythe.
It's more than just healing, too. Druids have access to a knockback and a mob pull, similar to death knights also having a pull. Elemental shaman have access to two knockbacks; other shaman only have one. Warlocks with their new Demonic Portal have one of the best raid movement tools there is, and since it's limited to only five charges per portal, a 25-man raid needs five warlocks to transport everyone.
What the future might hold
Will we see a return of raid stacking? I don't know. At this point, no one knows, but it isn't beyond the realm of reason. Classes are getting a lot of unique utility -- extremely powerful utility, at that -- which is the very foundation of the cause of raid stacking. All that it would take is for a group of encounters to support a specific raid setup, and suddenly you're back to stacking as you were in the old days. We already see stacking for specific encounters, and that is certainly only going to get worse as the utility between the classes becomes more diverse. We could just as easily fall back into a much larger scheme of raid stacking.
I'm hoping this doesn't happen, but the unique abilities provided by the Mists talents is exactly the thing which caused it to happen in The Burning Crusade.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding), Mists of Pandaria
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
N-train Nov 30th 2011 12:10AM
I think this article may be jumping the gun a bit.
Sure, on a fight that doesn't really need an OT, having a druid that can use his talent to become a "tank" when needed and dps when not is going to be extremely helpful, but that doesn't mean every raid or boss or even phase of a boss is going to work the same way. Utility implies there's a time when something is particularly helpful, but its cost comes from the utilities you don't get in exchange.
When a certain class is comparably over/underpowered in raw numbers, it's hard to argue that more dps isn't good or less dps isn't bad, but the debate on whether its better to have "ability X" for picking up adds in p2 or "ability Y" for an extra healing cooldown for the tank in p3 isn't nearly as clear-cut, and that choice will often depend on the raid and the players.
Ultimately, short of making every class exactly identical, there's only so much Blizzard can do to prevent this, as there are plenty of people who would bring 25 paladins if it gave them a dps boost, and plenty of people who will swap out 2-3 classes every other fight to make it easier already. But for the vast majority of us who play with whatever classes our friends choose, meaningful choices and quantifiable utility is worth the risk of hardcore guilds doing what they already do.
TonyKP Nov 30th 2011 12:30AM
I played the SW:TOR beta this weekend and I gotta tellya, seeing those nice big customizable talent trees like World of Warcraft used to have brought a smile to my face. I'm looking forward to playing around with the talents the way I did in pre-Cata WoW; I still remember the fun I had with the balance druid spec that was designed entirely around typhoon (and cliffs).
Pyromelter Nov 30th 2011 1:59AM
I completely agree, and I really think blizzard is taking away something that is very central to playing an RPG, that of filling out a talent tree or allocating points to your statistics in some meaningful way.
John Nov 30th 2011 8:51AM
But but but - there must always be a ... cookie cutter spec.
Perhaps a website called ToR Elitist Jerks will show up. I am hoping Bioware keeps SWTOR as casual as it seemed during the beta so all the EJ's will shun it and leave it alone. Maybe the WoW community will get lucky and the EJ's will all go play GW2.
cygnus Nov 30th 2011 12:43AM
I am sorry Mr. Caraway, but I do believe you are, as you yourself begged, incorrect. It is my belief that the existence of all these new awesome abilities will not bring down the "bring the player, not the class" philosophy.
First of all, I think that this debate is pointless, as the expansion is in development and far in the horizon. Lots of those abilities will change, and even the whole model can be a mirage (paths of the titan). And the reason Blizzard release this calculator is to hook people up after the announcement (a lil' flash application can do wonders in marketing).
Second. No major testing has been done, so I believe it's unwise to point fingers and predict where Blizzard will go from this information.
To the point now. How dare I contradict a tried and blooded (experienced) raider as Mr. Caraway? Well, I will try and transmit my point: These abilities are awesome, yes, they can be exploited, yes, we have never seen anything like this since BC...no. Today we have a big assortment of exploitable abilities that haven't cause any concern to the raiding as it is intended:
- Priests are not required in guilds to move people out of fire with leap of faith.
- I have seen how 2-3 priests clear whole pulls using only Mind Control. Yet no raid comp is based on that.
- No raid requires their tank to be a warrior just because heroic leap will take them out of AOEs faster than running (Way faster), or let 'em do an effective kiting
- Nor do all melee DPSs are warriors just to have a constant rallying cry, or constant stacks of sunder armor.
- Pally bubble, as the most sick and OP ability out there, is still not blatantly changing tanking for the other classes. (BTW, if you are wondering, its not the dmg ignored, its the debuffs removed).
- Neither the other tanks are discarded just because the prot pally has 2 interrupts, 1 of which can be refreshed with each attack.
- Hunters are not sought out for a cheetah/disengage/feign maneuver for kitting.
And these are just a few to keep this post brief, but one could go on (death grip, battle resurrections, smoke bomb, misdirection/tricks, exorcism, etc, etc, etc...)
The reason of this is because no single strategy will work for all the encounters, and you'll need a pretty big pool of players to have the correct lineup for each boss (besides each of them had to be very forgiving to stand down for the night after one boss), and because these strategies requires skill from the player and skill as a group, its not even worth to go through the trouble of finding all the players from the specific class.
And most important of all, 5 warlocks roll for the exact. same. gear. and bosses are pretty niggard these days.
Revnah Nov 30th 2011 1:58AM
I don't think Blizz will let it happen. Remember in early Cata, when Survival Hunters were so OP guilds started stacking them? In no time at all Blizz had nerfed them. It'll be the same in MoP, they can nerf talents as well as class abilities.
Blizzard are committed to not letting the old style of raid stacking return, and I believe they can and will pull it off.
sarah Nov 30th 2011 3:38AM
I don't really see a problem here. Top guilds have always stacked for even the slightest edge. Smaller guilds don't have enough people to go over the top with stacking. I can see mid-range guilds doing some stacking for specific encounters, but if Blizzard are clever they'll make sure that the encounters that are made easier by specific people don't drop much that they'll care about, and those who aren't particularly useful in that fight will get good drops from it. That way, the guild will be better off bringing their usual group than gaming the system.
Nadia Nov 30th 2011 7:33AM
After the limitations put on Battle Resurrections (you can only use a limited number during a boss attempt depending on your rad size), I doubt this will happen again.
I'd guess there would be a similar limitation placed on the use of talents like these per attempt at a boss.
xChaosMonkeyx Nov 30th 2011 8:33AM
Your blurb about warlocks having more survivability than mages was a bit off - you're forgetting the inevitable drain on healer mana that is lifetap. At best, all of that passive healing most likely just tops off their mana for an entire encounter without needing a healer.
Tyler Caraway Nov 30th 2011 10:20AM
Currently, Warlocks don't actually Life Tap, at least not Demonology and Destruction/Affliction incredibly infrequently. Aside from which, it isn't actually a healer drain on mana at all when used properly. You don't merely get to OOM and Life Tap your way to full, you Life Tap as it becomes convenient, usually while moving. A single Life Tap is ignorable amounts of damage from a healer, and passive healing will patch over it instantly.
freebeatfly Nov 30th 2011 10:19AM
I'm just waiting for them to fix those talents up before making a judgment. For now rogues are so far behind in utility, there's still no reason to bring one over another class... whereas the new druid (stand-in?) talents look absolutely insane.
Though we hate to admit it, even us assassins need a little love...
Sebastian Nov 30th 2011 2:42PM
What about those with no serious utility? Take rogues vs. kitty druids for example. Blizzard has committed to the end of the hybrid tax, but why would you play a pure dps class when the hybrids bring so much more to the raid? If the kitty does as much as a rogue, but has battle rez and the ability to pop out and off heal in a pinch, what does the rogue bring to the table?
There is a reason why rogues are barely present in raids anymore.
Ysonia Nov 30th 2011 7:41PM
Hopefully we won't see the mass-return of raid stacking, such as is described in this article. Maybe if they have the boss fights require specific things from *different* classes, so having too many druids would hurt you on a specific fight where it would really be significantly better to have a paladin or a warlock instead. Might be the only way to have a raid with a wide variety of classes represented, with everyone gaining so much unique utility.