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11-30-2011 @ 5:20PM
Orgrimmar, huh?Bring it! We lost a whole planet and survived -- burn down a mere city and we'll just come back stronger.Lok'tar Ogar!
11-30-2011 @ 5:25PM
You didn't lose the planet. It's not change in your couch. You blew it up.It's like burning down your house. It's not lost, it's gone.
11-30-2011 @ 5:48PM
If you drop some change in your couch and can never find it, did it ever really exist?
11-30-2011 @ 5:56PM
Didn't the Orks end up joining forces with Demons to escape the world you helped to destroy in the first place?You can't play in our house till you prove you won't break things!Time for you to go back to Outland!Down with the Bloody Horde!
11-30-2011 @ 6:47PM
You burnt down your own trailer, now you've moved into the Alliance trailer and are making them sleep on the couch while drinking all their beer!(See what happens when you listen to the podcast. You get to steal analogies.)
11-30-2011 @ 6:59PM
If you are going to start throwing out all the races that destroyed or attempted to destroy their own home planet, don't forget to add Draenei and Night Elves to the list.
11-30-2011 @ 7:15PM
The Draenei not only destroyed their own planet, they came to another one and helped destroy that one as well. After naming it after themselves. I think we should politely ask them to leave Drazeroth at this point.
11-30-2011 @ 8:05PM
Except the Draenei weren't pushing and shoving to be the first to suckle at the Pit Lords' teats.
11-30-2011 @ 8:16PM
Which might never have happened, if the Draenei hadn't decided to conceal the fact that they were on the run from a massive army of howling, space demons that was due to turn up any minute. Also, what demons are. Wow, that was a decision that bit them in the bum.
11-30-2011 @ 9:01PM
*blinkblink* How was it the Draenei's fault that the Orcs first poisoned their homelands with their own channeled fel energy and then blew up the planet?And besides, it's the Orcs' fault that the Draenei are on Azeroth. Since you were too weak, stupid and lazy to exterminate them. Losers.
Helpfully mentioning that 'Hey, there's this guy that's after us called the Kil'jadeen the Deciever. He may lie to you.' would probably of helped things.Or mentioning the whole burning legion thing. That would've helped.Also explaining to the guys who engage in ancestor worship and have an entire group of dudes who exist to commune with spirits of nature and their own revered dead that while it looks like your spaceship is sucking up all the ghosts it's not really doing that and if it is, it's not that bad probably would have helped. Or not having almost your entire race corrupted in the first place. That would've been best of all. But mostly the first one.
11-30-2011 @ 9:34PM
@HobstadtHere is, I believe (And if it is wrong let me know please) the quick and dirty rundown of the events.Draenei get corrupted by the burning legion. 2 of the 3 elders (One of which is Kil'jadeen) pledge themselves to Sargaras.The Valen (The remaining non corrupted elder) and what is left of the Draenei flee and land on the planet what we all call outland. They meet up with the orcs and everything is cool. They leave each other alone.Then the Burning Legion show up. They know the Draenei are on to them so they turn to the orcs as a easy mark. They corrupt the orcs so they can go after the Draenei. Most (not all) of the orcs go evil and do bad things to outlands and the Draenei, so the Draenei flee to azeroth.
11-30-2011 @ 9:54PM
I hate to say this but I don't think orgrimmar will be raised. Blizzard has turned very lazy in pre-expansion events (unless you're talking about a phased questline like battle for UC).The level 1-60 experience will stay like this forever, or until they bring another cataclysm-like expansion, which is unlikely. Whatever Blizzard do in MoP, we'll still see losses after losses till level 60.And like many people, I don't trust Blizzard will do well in addressing this issue in MoP. They're not even admitting that the issue exists, and instead all they do is avoid it and bring irrelevant stuff every time they're asked about it (RTS games and Thrall).Here's the disaster Blizzard has done with MoP: after so many losses, Alliance players aren't going to be satisfied with few wins. If they give the Alliance a lot of winning, the issue is gonna come up on the Horde (too many losses for the Horde).So, Blizzard, what are you going to do?
11-30-2011 @ 10:34PM
@ TransitYeah and how could that POSSIBLY be the Draenei's fault?The demons looked exactly like the dead orc ancestors in Oshu'gon.When they said "The Draenei will destroy the world and kill you all you must get them first, the Orcs went mad with bloodlust, because that's what Orcs do. They kill their enemies.Ner'Zhul knew/suspected in his heart all along that something was wroong but when he finally listened to his heart and checked, it was too late. And when he came out of Oshu'gon, Gul'dan WHO KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE LEGION, took over.No amount of warning about the Burning Legion would have helped. When the shamans became warlocks and started summoning demons (which they didn't know what they were at first) and channel fel energy, they had already been butchering Draenei for months and gone waaay past the point of no return. Without the Spirits to help them, they would lose against the Draenei, so fel energies were their only hope of victory.So they poisoned their own world. And then Ner'zhul blew it up by opening too many portals at once. Neither of which can be blamed on the Draenei. Because when the day is done, the Orcs may not have liked being manipulated by the Legion, but exterminating a whole race? Not a big deal. They were enemies, after all. And Doomhammer showed clearly that even an uncorrupted Orc has no problem with genocide. He didn't have any problem with it on Draenor, either. All the Orcs needed was someone to point them at the Draenei, and the rest is history."But Thrall is different!" Thrall was raised by humans. He doesn't count. And the vast majority of the Orcs thinks that mass murder is perfectly fine, as long as it's people on the other side. The other Horde races tend to disagree ofc, (even the Forsaken had to be FORCED into battle) but who listens to those weaklings?
11-30-2011 @ 10:55PM
And besides, it's the Orcs fault that the Draenei are on Azeroth, since they were too weak, dumb and lazy to exterminate them on Draenor.Losers.But hey, once you have Ashenvale, you can set sail and finish the job your parents started by attack Misty Isles and massacre all the remaining Draenei like good widdle orcs. ;-)
11-30-2011 @ 11:16PM
@HobstadtIt is not the Draneii's fault. There was a bad guy (Kil'jadeen) who corrupted them.It is not the Orc's fault. Gul'dan took them down that path.I mearly pointing out that WOW is cool because it is more complex then Draneii good, Orc bad.The Orcs, before the Burning Legion came, were not destroying their planet, they lived in harmony with it. The Orcs, when the Draneii, came were not waging war on them. (At least that is my impression, they could have been fighting with the Draneii but I don't think so.) That only happened when the Burning Legion twisted them. If we want to get bogged down in the "but did they know what they were doing" game. Then I would say that on both sides some did, most didn't. Both sides have some really bad guys that knew exactly what they were doing, and egged their respective races on to oblivion. This happens again and again to almost all the races in WOW. The Orcs, the night elves, the Trolls, the Draneii...As a side note, I was not really talking about Thrall being the only "good" orc, I was thinking more about the Mag'har.The bad guys are the Burning Legion in all of this.
12-02-2011 @ 8:16AM
It's all the Draenei's fault.Okay, I accept that the Draenei were in the right to forsake Argus when Kil'jaedan and Archimonde went on their whole "let's become all-conquering supergods in the name of evulz, yay!" bender, but they could have helped their own case and saved billions of lives in the process.Remember that cinematic in WarCraft III where it's mentioned that the Burning Legion had razed thousands of worlds before even encountering Draenor and Azeroth? That was solely in the pursuit of the uncorrupted Draenei. It would have happened in any case, but it would have been a unchecked and entirely random rampage instead of the focused attempt to exterminate a single entire species. Up until the Draenor incident, the whole cycle went like this:1) The Draenei would land on a planet, typically an inhabited one.2) Instead of a whole "take me to your leader, we have grave news about a nigh-unstoppable threat that is specifically pursuing us" routine, they hide. The few sightings of Draenei that the locals do see tend to breed superstition and mistrust and the Draenei do nothing at all to assist in stopping this.3) The Burning Legion catches up with the Draenei, find out they're bunking up with the native population of the planet, then proceeds to murderdeathkill everyone as the Draenei pack up their gear and escape.4) Repeat until all life in the universe is exterminated.Kudos to the Burning Legion in attempting a modicum of subtlety with Draenor. By that point they figured out that if they just rocked up in full invasion mode like they had with the last several thousand planets they'd razed then that would give the Draenei a chance to escape. THEY at least realised that changing tactics could succeed. The Draenei did not. The Draenei were more concerned with saving their own hides than attempting to break the cycle.Could the Draenei have helped the Orcs? Of course. They could have actually been honest with them; Valen at least knew first hand that the Burning Legion was capable of subtlety when he watched his two bestest buddies corrupted with the promise of power. He would have fallen too if the Naaru hadn't directly told him that Sargeras wasn't on the level. They could have done the same thing BEFORE the corruption on Draenor, they were more than happy to let the Orcs believe that their crashed ship was a holy place without considering that belief could have been turned against them. Or maybe the Orcs weren't worth saving in the eyes of the Naaru and the Draenei.Thinking of the whole thing, I can't help but draw parallels between the Draenei and the Bentuusi from Homeworld. "At least the Beast doesn't pretend to be righteous" indeed.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcN-2l0ON9M#t=5m20s
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