Breakfast Topic: Will Raid Finder popularity be sustainable?
by Chase Hasbrouck 
Dec 6th 2011 at 8:00AM
When the Raid Finder feature rolled out on the PTR, it was terrible. Queues were long, dropouts were common, and the overall experience was poor. The Raid Finder on live, in contrast, is new, shiny, and by all accounts a success. Everybody's happy ... for now. Now, I don't want to channel Ol' Grumpy here, but will that success be sustainable?
Right now, a good 90% of the active playerbase still has upgrades they need from Raid Finder, including current raiders. This means quicker queues and better groups overall. Once those raiders have their gear, though, will they continue to participate in the Raid Finder?
With gear levels topping 380 and the heroic 5-mans reasonably easy, those seeking quick valor will likely end up there instead of the Raid Finder, which demands a larger commitment with less chance of reward. Two months from now, I'm afraid the Raid Finder queues will be full of nothing but alts and occasional players, causing the situation from the PTR all over again. What do you think?
Right now, a good 90% of the active playerbase still has upgrades they need from Raid Finder, including current raiders. This means quicker queues and better groups overall. Once those raiders have their gear, though, will they continue to participate in the Raid Finder?
With gear levels topping 380 and the heroic 5-mans reasonably easy, those seeking quick valor will likely end up there instead of the Raid Finder, which demands a larger commitment with less chance of reward. Two months from now, I'm afraid the Raid Finder queues will be full of nothing but alts and occasional players, causing the situation from the PTR all over again. What do you think?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
DarkFinch Dec 6th 2011 8:06AM
The Raid Finder will not be very sustainable as a patch moves on. But whenever a new patch drops and introduces a new raid, this will be an invaluable tool for many guilds / career puggers.
shawn Dec 6th 2011 10:28AM
I agree, as someone who generally only pugs his raids, I think there is a solid base of players in a similar situation that will keep it going. That said, I really think Blizzard did poorly only including Dragon Soul in the LFR tool. I've heard a lot of groaning about the lack of support for all the previous content.
It's a shame they couldn't have including all the raids up to this point as well.
The thing to remember is there are millions of live players, and this will give them a chance to raid even if the quality is a little lower than finding a group for normals/heroics. PTR doesn't have the numbers to give an accurate, long term view of it's sustainability.
Legs Dec 6th 2011 11:01AM
I can understand why they didn't include older content (it would be a lot of time to scale the encounters and drops), but it would have been awfully nice if they simply included Firelands and earlier raids as is to at least facilitate people running the content if they want to.
I am looking forward to LFR being continued through the coming patches/expansions. It's a great option for raiders with missing tier pieces, and non-raiders looking for a taste!
clundgren Dec 6th 2011 11:54AM
It depends what you mean by sustainable. Will the queues be as fast as they are right now? Unlikely. But as a dps, going from an instant queue to a 10 minute queue is not going to stress me out -- I'm already used to dungeon queues that can run 30 minutes (longer at the beginning of Cataclysm).
The normal life cycle of a raid is that at first people run it primarily on their mains. Then, as they get geared up and get used to content, alt runs and pugs start appearing. If anything, raids become more accessible and are run more often later on in the cycle. I don't see why this couldn't replicate itself on raid finder; the content is easy enough and fast enough that it will be pretty inviting for people to use it for alts even after their mains are geared.
Plus, it will continue to attract those people who can't run regular raids. So overall, I suppose I disagree with your conclusion. I think the RF will be very sustainable.
Zapwidget Dec 6th 2011 12:01PM
I would disagree. Sure, it will likely slow down a little as the tier progresses, but you get Valor Points for completion, 500 VP in raid finder means 3 fewer heroics and a shot at better gear.
As long as people are still queuing up for heroics (which last I checked was the entire tier) they'll be queuing up for raid finder as well, even if only once a week per weing.
s1natsuns3t Dec 6th 2011 2:24PM
I do agree that RF will probably dry up after everybody's been through it 10-100x, but then again people were still running ZG/ZA through the end of 4.2 even though we were all sick of it since that was really the only thing to do. (As a strange side note: one wing of the RF will probably turn out to take less time than a single clear through ZG/ZA).
However, I'm skeptical that Blizz would have needed to do ANY work to bring this function to older, non-cata raids. You really don't need to tune down raids players are currently outgeared for, hell, you don't even need a full raid! There's no reason Blizz couldn't put 10 players in Black Temple, Tempest Keep, or even ICC without touching the instance itself.
Jack Mynock Dec 6th 2011 3:24PM
This is pretty much what happens to DF as a patch wears on, so you would expect the same for RF. Eventually, you run out of valor options and/or the raiders start capping through regular raid content, so they stop running DF and the pool of available players becomes less geared/experienced overall. It's just natural progression, hardly doom and gloom.
Micheal Dec 6th 2011 8:06AM
Queueing on Monday evening was a little bit like what you're predicting, since most people had already done it and only late-comers or people who freshly hit the ilvl requirement were in. Queues that were two or three times as long as they had been all week, dps that didn't top 20k on any fight... meh. I don't know if you're correct but I'm worried...
Noyou Dec 6th 2011 8:06AM
I think raid finder is good. I think it can be great. I think over time they will add current as well as possibly add older raids to it. My only fear is that in each tier, when geared players run thru their tier and get bored, they will go pick on people in the LFR bracket by sabotaging their runs. I haven't done it yet but I am currently gearing my main to tank the new heroics. I might try healing LFR or just tagging along on one of my ranged DPS toons. I mainly just want to see the content, and I think that is the purpose of LFR.
Javsiam Dec 6th 2011 8:11AM
You're still getting 250 vp from each run, no? With a run per wing, that's half way to your VP cap each week. I ran LFR twice on my main this week and ran it once on one of my alts Monday night. Insta-queue for DPS & Healers. Queue times are little rough for tanks... We've come full circle, eh?
Bob Dec 6th 2011 9:51AM
With only seven dungeons required to cap valor for the entire week, I have yet to get a single VP from a raid this entire patch.
clundgren Dec 6th 2011 11:57AM
My first run on raid finder took less than an hour to clear the first wing. That's faster than getting valour through dungeons, at least for a dps. And I think it will only speed up as folks get used to the content.
Peebers Dec 6th 2011 8:11AM
Does LFR offer a mount? It should.
Noyou Dec 6th 2011 8:37AM
It should offer a mount as much as regular dungeons should.
Peebers Dec 6th 2011 8:57AM
ZA does my man. LFR burnout will def happen at some point. i just haven't paid enough attention to know if they've added any long term incentives, ie. a mount or whatever that tank/healer bonus bag is called. thank you kindly y'all.
LynMars Dec 6th 2011 9:43AM
ZA was originally a raid, which became a heroic-only dungeon. A regular instance hasn't given mounts since I think Classic, when there was only a single difficulty--and even then, the drops were very very rare (Baron's is the only one I can think of, and Strat and Scholo started out at 10 man difficulty due to length and challenge).
LFR is meant to be a place where people see new content and possibly get a piece of gear and extra valor--which is likely why interest will drop quickly. They may add incentives to keep people looking, but for the most part they seem to be keeping the interesting rewards (mounts, etc) to regular raids as an incentive to join a regular raid team if possible.
If they allowed all the same rewards in LFR as regular raids, there'd be less reason to be in a raid group and I can see the possibilities of MORE drama as raiders ditched or slacked off because they could get what they wanted in LFR instead of working for the team (for some folks, anyway).
They want people in regular groups more than randoms, but are making things easier for those folks who have no other options--which is a nice change from earlier versions of the game, even if the system isn't perfect.
Bob Dec 6th 2011 9:50AM
@Lyn - Didn't Skadi drop a mount?
loop_not_defined Dec 6th 2011 9:55AM
Dungeons (even outside of ZA and ZG) still offer mounts. Vortex Pinnacle and Stonecore being two examples.
Peebers Dec 6th 2011 9:56AM
this game is all apples, apple and more apples. not carebear casual apple pie and hardcore raider orange cake.
Anomis Dec 6th 2011 10:05AM
@LynMars A regular instance hasn't given mounts since I think Classic
Cata
http://www.wowhead.com/item=63040 - Reins of the Drake of the North Wind - The Vortex Pinacle
http://www.wowhead.com/item=63043 - Reins of the Vitreous Stone Drake - The Stonecore
WOTLK
Blue Drake - http://www.wowhead.com/item=43953 - The Oculus
Blue Proto-Drake - Utgarde Pinnacle
Reins of the Bronze Drake - The Culling of Stratholme
BC
Swift White Hawkstrider - Magister's Terrace
Reins of the Raven Lord - Sethekk Halls