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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsParagon: We're sorry we cheated
by Fox Van Allen 
Dec 6th 2011 at 1:00PM
Paragon had come up with a plan to run the Raid Finder multiple times, once for each raider. While executing the plan, they noticed and exploited a bug that allowed the raid the ability to loot passed gear -- a violation of Blizzard's rules. The exploit has since been hotfixed.We acknowledge that using this unintended behavior, which was quite clearly a bug, to our gain, was wrong. The fact that others were using it as well is no justification for doing it ourselves. We apologize for doing it, and accept whatever consequences follow.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Cheats, News items, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 11)
dkhar Dec 6th 2011 1:05PM
The question will become, will they get a ban, and if so will it prevent them from being able to go for world first?
Task Dec 6th 2011 1:10PM
It would be up to Blizzard's discretion overall, but I wouldn't be surprised if a ban came their way, though how severe it would be is still up in the air.
Peebers Dec 6th 2011 1:42PM
i thought they already issued 8 day banns? there'd be quite an uproar if that didnt include paragon.
Edymnion Dec 6th 2011 1:48PM
Ban every last person that exploited it for a good 2 weeks.
Make a very clear, very painful point that if you cheat to try and get a first, you will be completely removed from the running and put weeks behind everyone else that played by the rules.
Cheating will always continue so long as the potential gains outweigh the potential losses. The only way to really stop it is to make sure the punishment is so over the top that you wouldn't even think of doing it in the first place.
noel mcleod Dec 6th 2011 2:38PM
I don't raid, and I mostly tend to dislike the superior, arrogant attitude of so many people who feel they are better players because they have more TIME to play and CAN raid. That being said, if it were me I would want Paragon to have to give back the items and have, AT MOST, a 24-hour ban. Anything more is probably to much, I don't think this should stop them from trying for a "world-first". It WAS a bug, yes they exploited it but so did many, many other people and this is a highly-competitive part of the game.
jude_rulz Dec 6th 2011 2:49PM
They already got the ban, it went into affect last night and it was 3-8 for all that participated ~ Length of time for the ban depended on the severity and how much each particular toon looted (At least, that's what I heard).
whatreally? Dec 6th 2011 3:06PM
Truth is , exploiting the raid finder is highly illogical. The set bonus for T13 is okay for some classes and awesome for others but they would be losing valuable base stats because they would be in a majority of heroic Firelands loot. The apology is appreciated but the eight day ban is totally necessary. Give people an inch, they take a mile........
sims314 Dec 6th 2011 3:09PM
It has been shown that severe punishment does not always stop people from breaking the rules. Most people who cheat don't think that they'll get caught, otherwise why would they try? Those same people usually don't think about the punishment they would receive if they got caught. Like how murder and violent crime happen everyday yet life in prison or the death penalty do not deter people from doing it.
Snuzzle Dec 6th 2011 3:21PM
The thing is, as far as I'm aware, the exploit they used has not been hotfixed. There were a couple of ways to get around the "one try at loot per boss" rule and while the more common "trade the loot" exploit has been fixed the one they use has not explicitly been announced as being fixed.
I'm glad they apologized. They still deserve permabans. None of this wimpy "two week" stuff. If they weren't Paragon it would have unquestionably been a permaban, like the guild who wallhacked to get past C'thun's trash in Classic.
Make an example of them. Permaban them. And maybe other world first guilds will think twice before doing crap like this in the future.
Angrycelt Dec 6th 2011 4:25PM
World to Paragon: Eff Ewe.
We apologize for knowing we were cheating but doing it anyway?
I'll remember that the next time a criminal apologizes while they're being processed at the jail. "I'm sorry I broke the law and got caught, are we ok now?"
Come on Blizz, I don't care if they're your most famous players. Bring down the banhammer.
Noyou Dec 6th 2011 5:14PM
That was on of the biggest "non-apologies" I have ever seen. Paragon is ALWAYS using exploits. I have to blame Blizzard for a good part of it though. They should ban them and then take their gear away.
Greg Dec 7th 2011 3:34AM
@Edymnion
I don't think the existence of cheating is due to the potential gain outweighing the potential loss. People will still cheat when there's little or no gain involved, and high potential loss. I do agree that disincentivizing cheating is important if the desire is to create an ethical community.
@Noyou
I think you mean it was "non-repentance." Paragon's statement was nearly the definition of an apology- right down to the part where they said 'we apologize' and 'accept... consequences...' Now whether or not they will turn away from this behavior; their apology makes no claims.
From a PR standpoint, I suppose an apology is definitely in their best interests. But repentance? Not really so much. Consider Blizzard's definition of a bannable offense: 'any action which trivializes game mechanics.' Well, we have a whole slew of cooldowns that are designed to do exactly that. Healer and tank cool downs can trivialize high damage situations. The argument is then that these are simply 'intended uses for those abilities.'
But really, where outside ambiguous terms such as 'intended,' 'exploit,' and 'clever use of game mechanics' are these concepts concretely decided? How much mitigation is too much? These terms are intentionally vague so that Blizzard can turn the spigot to affect the 'flow' of cheating.
A game in which every fight was approached the same way, or worse- in which there were no clever uses of in game mechanics- would be very boring. But somewhere along the way, Blizzard was smart enough to realize that such an open system requires and equally open interpretation of the rules. The fact that it is Blizzard's game that we are licensed to play (under its interpretation of the rules) means that Blizzard really doesn't have to explain itself all that much. If you are caught in the vague definition of an offense, then Blizzard can impose in-game penalties.
But when one is on the bleeding edge of content, with the goal of beating every other player or group to the game's highest achievements, one tends to do 'what it takes' to win. At these times, the line between cheating and being creative can be almost indistinguishable. In which case, Paragon can't really promise that it won't happen again. They cane really only do the right thing: apologize for their recent transgression, regroup, and move on with the game.
Demanding repentance from anyone in this circumstance is a bit too much, imho.
Shamrocco Dec 6th 2011 1:05PM
Nice of them to apologize. I really thought they might pull some over-the-top, this is ridiculous Ensidia crap. They get banned, so do all the other top 100 guilds, and heroics aren't even available yet. GG all.
Task Dec 6th 2011 1:08PM
I am both disappointed that they would this especially after the Ensidia incident, but I am pleased that they issued an apology.
Lucidique Dec 6th 2011 1:25PM
Absolutely. Can only applaud that.
karatesmashunhurt Dec 6th 2011 1:28PM
I'm glad they apologised, but applauding cheaters for apologising? You're supposed to apologise when you do something wrong, you don't get cookies for that.
ZeroDesu Dec 6th 2011 1:54PM
...but that's how you train puppies. And occasionally toddlers. I think, in certain circumstances, that's how we gotta do it...
sims314 Dec 6th 2011 3:24PM
In this day and age it seems that hardly anyone does what they're supposed to. When they mess up almost no one admits to it. Then once its been in public knowledge for a long enough period of time and the evidence is overwhelming, they admit to it. Only occasionally do those same people apologize for what they have done. It is a rare occurrence for a group to both admit and apologize for their mistake instead of denying and obfuscating the truth. In this time in which lying and cheating has become the norm, I believe "milk and cookies" are deserved for owning up to your mistakes instead of doing the opposite.
Possum Dec 6th 2011 3:31PM
Pffft, much easier to apologise than to do the right thing in the first place.
Skarn Dec 6th 2011 4:09PM
People make mistakes. Sometimes even the best of us do stupid things. I'm not about to sit here on a throne of hypocrisy and say "they did something stupid and should have known better and can NEVER be forgiven. BURRRNNNNRAWR" when I know I've done some stupid stuff myself. Have I ever cheated in some sort of race like this? No. There are definitely things I regret though and I am glad they don't have to be held against me forever.
Anyone that really thinks Paragon should be punished permanently forever needs to take a look at themselves and see what sort of screw ups they done themselves.
Do I think Paragon, et al should be punished? Yes. A week ban is good. Edymnion's two week suggestion has merit. Permanent though? Sounds way over the top to me. Sounds incredibly vindictive and bloodthirsty.