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12-08-2011 @ 1:16PM
Very good points!One way they could salvage the whole situation (though somewhat unrealistic), would be to kill Varian Wrynn.At this point, I think he's pretty much unsalvageable. He's too much defined by his "savage" traits or in-game, by having no characterization at all. They could, of course, start character development, but honestly, there's an easier way.Have him die heroically, say, defending Theramore, maybe locked in mortal combat with Garrosh, so the Horde gets something out of it, too.Then have someone else take over. Either make Jaina the regent until Anduin comes off age or have Anduin take over right then. His father's sacrifice could inspire him to combine his clerical training with the martial aspects his Varian represented and become the paladin monarch humanity and the Alliance deserve. Or have Turalyon return (I'd like that best).
12-08-2011 @ 1:50PM
Turalyon, please, I find Anduin insufferable.I quite like the idea of Varian dying heroically, because I agree with you that, at this point, he's got too much baggage. But not at the hands of Garrosh -- the QQ would be too epic. In fact, if he is going to die it should be at the hands of some epic threat to the entire world, and given that I think there may well be an as yet unannounced Old God raid between now and MoP...
12-08-2011 @ 1:57PM
Well, I meant that Garrosh and Varian should kill each other.But even if he was killed by Garrosh, I wouldn't actually mind.Because that's what you get for being stupid and attacking the 7ft tall green, mean warmachine on his terms.
12-08-2011 @ 2:29PM
Garrosh is brown. He also had his ass handed to him by Cairne until he got a lucky hit with a cursed axe.
12-08-2011 @ 3:52PM
Wall of Text incoming! Honestly, I can see redemption for Varian coming in the Trials of the High King. You really don't have to kill the man. If I were Blizzard, here is how I would end the epic storyline. The chain climaxes at [Random Location], where a huge force of Alliance and Horde meet for battle, and the Horde is winning at the moment. A sudden charge at Wrynn leaves him without any guards except for the players (which is what you're doing in this final quest, defending Wrynn). Garrosh and Wrynn start their fight while the Horde and Alliance prevents the other side from interfering between the two leaders.Eventually, Wrynn will subdue Garrosh, but instead of killing him, Wrynn offers mercy in return for the lands Garrosh took [throughout Cataclysm]. He does this because he knows Garrosh is barely holding the Horde together with his strong leadership, and because he has come to realize that the Horde does have its uses (such as aiding in killing Deathwing).Garrosh spits at the offer and questions Wrynn's bravery, leading to a conversation something to the tune of this:Garrosh: "I thought you were a proud warrior - the best fighter and challenge the Alliance had to offer me. Not another groveling, pathetic diplomat begging for land!"Wrynn: "I am sorry to hear your decision, but there is one thing you must understand before I put you out of your misery, Hellscream." Garrosh: "Oh, and what is that, Varian Wrynn? That everything I worked for will be destroyed? By you?"Wrynn: "No, Garrosh."Wrynn: "I am not the Alliance's strongest fighter - unlike what you are for the Horde. I am not the Alliance's diplomat - what Proudmoore tries to be. I am not even the greatest human to live - that honor belongs to far better men than I. I once bore the name Lo'gosh, but that is not my name anymore. I have the name Varian Wrynn, but that is not my name either."Wrynn: "The only name I have is now Alliance."Wrynn: "Alliance protects the innocent and the helpless. Alliance rips the oppressors from existence, and Alliance bestows mercy upon those who humble themselves to take it. Alliance holds us together through the raging madness of this world."Wrynn: "The Alliance is the true Lion of Azeroth, and I am the roar that calls the Lion to battle; the roar that sends our enemies fleeing from our terrible wrath! I am the fangs that shred those who would try to overcome us! I am the charge into the abyss, leading the Alliance to its glory or death!"Wrynn: "We will not stop fighting until our very bones are pummeled to dust and engraved into the stones, and woe to the fool who thinks we are but mere men, dwarves, gnomes, elves, worgen to be trampled over! We are Lions - each and every son and daughter of the Alliance - and we cannot be tamed!"Wrynn: "I am Varian Wrynn, Lo'gosh, High King of the Alliance, and I ask you once more, Garrosh Hellscream - will you accept mercy?"Garrosh: "A true warrior never surrenders to his foe."Wrynn: "I would have said that once, not long ago. I was full of pride and anger, but I learned what it truly means to be King. To put your people before your pride. To actually listen to what others are saying. To bow to wisdom's call. Glory is not so glorious as it seems when you have to hurt the people around you to gain it."Wrynn: "A true warrior will never surrender? Then a dead warrior is all you will ever be remembered as."Wrynn then executes Garrosh. With their leader dead, the Horde retreats, and the Alliance has won the battle. In the aftermath, Thrall is asked to take up the mantle of Warchief again, and he accepts. TL;DR Version:Through the Trials of the High King, Wrynn will learn to suppress his rage and pride, and be able to channel it into his current goal. He would learn when mercy can be applied for the benefit of both parties (such as getting land back for the life of a leader). He would meet Garrosh on the battlefield and defeat him, then give a nice speech (the Blizzard version would be much better than my nonsense). After the speech, Garrosh refuses mercy and is executed. End results: Garrosh is dead; Wrynn is the strong, wise leader the Alliance needs; and Thrall will hopefully swoop in to take the reins of the Horde and lead it back to its former strength. On top of that, the war between the Horde and Alliance kicks into high gear with the orcs and others calling for Wrynn's head, and the Alliance riding on the momentum of the huge victory....Whew, it's finally done ... what do you guys think? (Other than I'm crazy - I already know that already!)
12-08-2011 @ 4:00PM
I appreciate the effort you put in, but I think a LOT of Horde players, Orc in particular, would object. Strongly. Having Garrosh die is one thing. Having him humiliated and lectured to by Varian first...not so palatable. In fact, having one faction leader killed by another is just opening a whole 'nother bag of worms.
12-08-2011 @ 4:35PM
@GanatolaI loved your scenario, I don't think it'll ever come down to Garrosh killing Varian, or Varian killing Garrosh.However, I did find it quite humerous that you managed to list every race in the Alliance in your speech. Except Draenei.Draenei - Getting the shaft since Sunwell Plateau!
12-08-2011 @ 4:43PM
OH! The guy at the end of the bridge coming into Stormwind is Turalyon?! I always thought he was badass because he reminded me of the character from LOTR that does teh same (kill/wound the baddie with a broken sword). Never knew his name, but always (when RP'ing) paused to salute on any of my Alliance toons, cuz he seemed so epic.
12-08-2011 @ 5:03PM
In hindsight, I realize this scenario is a little extreme, and I'm also sorry to our blue friends out there - thanks for the callout Rhü. (Week before finals, two tests tomorrow - it's a miracle I have enough creativity at the moment to write this. Just kill me now.) I just know if Blizzard ever wants to be free of the "Horde Favoritism" complaint (so kindly brought up by Alex here), they will have to do something extreme in the opposite direction for balance. I'm positive it won't be the above scenario, but I'm guessing something very drastic will happen to the Horde leadership by the end of MoP. Merely bringing up the subject and giving some evidence that says otherwise will not sway most people, as action (pardon the cliché) speaks much louder than words.
12-08-2011 @ 5:28PM
Clundgren, as a long-time Horde player, I could not disagree more. Garrosh is despised by much of the Horde, both players and NPCs. His leadership is terrible, he is distrustful of any non-Orc, and his few highlights are marred by a long history of immaturity and thick-headedness. Any success he's had has been more the result of our efforts than his: the entrance to Twilight Highlands is a perfect example, with Garrosh sabotaging our own invasion by splitting the Horde's forces to go chase after some Alliance ships, then crash-landing into the ocean and finally washing up on shore AFTER we've done all the actual work. Garrosh is a bully, plain and simple, and the only people who support him are the type who would support a bully in real life. He's the worst thing to ever happen to the Horde; if it weren't for him, Cairne would still be alive, Vol'jin would still be in Orgrimmar and our citizens wouldn't be resorting to stealing from each other in order to eat.So yes, have Varian kill him. I doubt Thrall will be coming back until hostilities die down, it's looking like he'll be retiring with Aggra for awhile, but Vol'jin could make a good Warchief.
12-08-2011 @ 5:33PM
I think one way to save Varian would be to have Velen and the Draenei get off their butts and DO something. Specifically, when Varian goes to the Exodar and does his thing, Velen teaches him from his own expierence that hate can only destroy, and the only thing to do is to keep hope alive and keep trusting in the Light. Maybe it doesn't stick at first, but Varian later sees a group of orcs somewhere, possibly Darkshore, and charges before thinking. The orcs are actually trying to stop Twilight Cultists/Burning Legion/Old God stuff and because they fail, the (enemy here) succeeds in summoning/coming through a portal. You beat them back, but Anduin gets severely injured, almost killed, and they head to the closest town to get him healed. Velen's there, because hey, Prophet, and he's able to heal Anduin because it's too much for anyone else. Varian finally "wakes up," and humbly tells Velen he was wrong, and can he please learn more. Maybe we can even get him into a Paladin this way. It's not perfect, but the underlying point is there. I mean, we have a race that's been hounded by their former friends for thousands of years and are still the closest we get to pure good. Use them, for goodness sakes! They'd be perfect for this!
12-08-2011 @ 5:34PM
Fudge, you do know that Varian handed Garrosh's ass to him in Wolfheart, right?
12-08-2011 @ 9:26PM
I think I could easily see some more faction leader deaths. If you think about it, Cairne was murdered by Garrosh (albeit on accident), Magni was turned to stone and he didn't even do anything, Thrall becamse Jesus (that is what happened to him, right?) Sylvanas is going crazy and heading in the direction of Lich-Queen, Vol'jin was thrown out of Ogrimmar, Varian has had all sorts of weird things happen to him with his story line, Tyrande is married to one of the most prominent neutral figures yet her people are getting massacred in Ashenvale. With the Council of Three Hammers we have one gigantic mess, our High Gnomish Engineer hasn't exactly done anything at all besides take back Gnomergan (kind of). I really think a little more trauma couldn't hurt things TOO badly...
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