loop, I am not talking about bloat.

I am talking about the inability to achieve the goal (removal of cookie-cutter specs) with the system as it's presented, and the removal of two-thirds of each class's abillity to force distinctiveness.

Removing those abilities doesn't fight bloat, they still exist. It just annoys the players who had those abilities for 7 years.

As for bloat, when you start cutting fat, and you keep cutting, eventually you hit meat. And removing abilities which ARE useful to people does have a negative affect over time. Wait until someone removes one of your abilities you particularly like and is indeed useful, and says "cutting bloat" as the reason.

Read my post above.

Boobah, the Mage example is just that, an example. it applies to many classes. You may think restricting healing on a hybrid class is one thing, but when you are playing that class, and your non-healing spec heal consists of a small heal you got at level 12, and your ass just got smacked by whatever baddie you are facing, you might think differently.

Have you actually seen the abilities based on the trees? Think of it this way. Unless you are Fire as a Mage, you lose ALL fire abilities. Unless you are Resto as a Shaman, you lose ALL healing abilities. There are a few exceptions, and you do retain one small heal in those healing classes, but it's still forcing the distinctiveness by removing a shitload of what the class can do.

If the game came like this from launch, no problem. Seven years into it's existance? Yes, it's a bit of a pain in the ass.