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12-09-2011 @ 2:44PM
On the exploit issue:The whole thing has me concerned that I will get myself banned for doing something I thought was a fair part of the game. I don't pour over blue posts to know what Blizzard is and isn't saying, so I could even miss a warning to not "misuse" something.That is a really bad feeling as an intense, but casual player. If Blizzard releases is a product with bugs, it is their fault, not the users of their product.
12-09-2011 @ 3:09PM
Yeah, no. Blizzard hasn't banned those top-end guilds for multiple "exploits" over the years, possibly because a lot of them could be passed off as clever use of mechanics which Blizzard then went in and said "no, that makes it far too easy."The rules for the LFR tool and loot were stated very prominently in FAQs and answers to questions about it, and even in-game, after killing a boss there is a "caution" symbol that will tell you which bosses you have already looted - implying, of course, that you cannot loot them again. Further, getting pieces of loot off a raid boss multiple times per week seems intuitively against the nature of a "raid," although that may not be obvious to people who are just getting their feet wet with the raid finder. Regardless, it was actually somewhat difficult to use this bug - all of the 25 people queuing had to be there before you queued. An extremely casual player who didn't really raid before the LFR would likely not have access to 25 individuals geared enough and in the proper roles to do it. You definitely had to do this on purpose.In other words, I wouldn't worry. If it's something that can be exploited accidentally, or is not obviously against the rules, Blizzard has not (in the past) come down very hard on people. The LFR rules were clearly stated from the get-go, and the exploit was very definitely against those rules, and also difficult to do by accident, so Blizzard dropped the ban hammer. Whether they deserve it or not can be debated to death, but the fact is this was a different kind of exploitation than past ones, and so the punishment was therefore different as well.
12-09-2011 @ 3:38PM
I never saw any "rules" clearly posted for LFR. I have still not tired it, so it doesn't matter for me, but text buried in some "rules" is not going to get much attention from anyone.Putting a vague blurb in the limited area where you access LFR is insufficient to make things clear.
12-09-2011 @ 4:19PM
Seriously? Purposefully disconnecting after a boss but before the loot is opened so you don't saved to the boss even if you subsequently win loot, allowing you to run the same LFR for loot multiple times and completely gear up on the first day of the patch isn't an obvious exploit for you? You need rules spelling out that that is cheating?Right. Butter won't melt in that mouth, will it?
12-09-2011 @ 4:30PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4023602/Raid_Finder_QA-11_29_2011#blogWould have been front page of the community site, and one of the main questions is "how does loot work?" This Q&A, and an associated FAQ were both reproduced on both WoW Insider and MMO Champion. If you read anything to do with WoW, you would have had access to the information, and if you didn't, you probably didn't know about the Raid Finder anyway.My response was to your note that "the whole thing has me concerned that I will get myself banned for doing something I thought was a fair part of the game," and what I'm saying was it's very unlikely that you will get yourself banned if you accidentally use a bug. LFR was definitely, obviously an exploit, directly against how Blizzard STATED the LFR loot system should work, and the people who did it were well aware of that fact.There's different kinds of "exploiting" - there's unintentional exploiting that happens because Blizzard doesn't notice something and it might have the appearance of Working As Intended - which Blizzard typically doesn't punish for at all, then there's the "grey area" of exploits where something will make a fight substantially easier than it's clearly supposed to be - generally where Blizzard takes away gear and kill credit but doesn't ban, and then there's exploits where people know they are doing the exact opposite of what Blizzard has explicitly stated, and now we know that it's in this case where we see the bans.
12-09-2011 @ 5:38PM
"Further, getting pieces of loot off a raid boss multiple times per week seems intuitively against the nature of a "raid," although that may not be obvious to people who are just getting their feet wet with the raid finder."Eh, I disagree with you here. The LFR feels a LOT more like the LFD to me. It feels like a big 5 man dungeon that happens to have 24 other people in it instead of 4 other people. It doesn't feel ANYTHING like a normal raid to me. And people have this expectation after years of LFD that "you queue, you have a chance at loot, even if you've already run the dungeon that day because LFD ignores lockouts."It still seems silly to me that you can't get gear more than once in LFR. You can only get VP twice, and there's only two wings. Once you've killed all the bosses once, there's 0 incentive to do it again until next week. LFR gear is intentionally a lower ilevel than normal, who cares if you can get gear more than once a week?
12-09-2011 @ 5:49PM
But Hih, it's not like people were just re-running the raid and getting loot, which is how lfd works. It's not like they were just requeuing. They were very specifically performing unusual actions to rig the system. It's absurd to suggest that they would have all been systematically doing so by accident.
12-10-2011 @ 12:22AM
I read some WoW info, but certainly not all. Mostly this site in fact. Today was the first time I saw any specifics about this issue. All the others were of the "we're not going to say how" aspect.Maybe my concern is unnecessary, but it remains. Blizzard's method of handling it and lack of looking for exploits on their own prior to release, is a big cause of that problem. Getting annoyed about wasting time in Darkmoon Faire is another aspect of my annoyance.Little things add up.
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