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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news5 ways to improve the Raid Finder
by Matthew Rossi 
Dec 15th 2011 at 9:00PM
The Raid Finder does the job of making complex raid content accessible for players who might otherwise never get to see these fights and it does it well. That being said, there have been some issues with loot, player behavior, and even the way the Raid Finder selects players in my runs that I wanted to address, aspects that could be improved or streamlined to give us all a better Raid Finder experience.
1. Need Plus system adjustments First off, while adding class restrictions to loot in the Dragon Soul Raid Finder was a good start, there still need to be some alterations to the way the Need Plus loot system works. Right now, the system works by role and gives its role bonus based purely on if you are tanking, DPSing or healing. So if you're an enhancement shaman and a caster DPS item drops, you can roll need on it and get the role bonus even though you're not a caster. The system needs to be modified so it's aware of spec in a meaningful way. If you signed up to melee or cast spells, then you shouldn't be rolling on gear intended for the opposite and winning it over people who came to do exactly that role.
2. Tweaks to duplicates items and lucky rollers Another way the loot system could improve is in how it handles duplicate items and lucky rollers. Right now, if two of an item (the bracers off of Morchok, say) drop and someone rolls need on both, he or she could win both. In fact, this has happened to me every single time I've killed Morchok. While I'm aware that random rolls are random, a modification of the role bonus may be in order here, so that if you roll on and win a piece of loot and an exact duplicate item has also dropped and you already rolled need on it, you don't get your full role bonus on the second item. For that matter, perhaps remove it entirely for the second roll (and only that roll). While this would penalize people trying to get two of something for offset or dual wielding, it would combat the phenomenon of one person winning all the gear.
3. Bonus decay for lucky rollers Speaking of that, there needs to be a system in place that adjusts things so that if one player has won a significant majority of the gear from a run, he or she starts to lose some role bonus. While the form this role bonus decay would take could vary, the idea of one person walking off with six to seven drops from one Raid Finder run while everyone else gets nothing seems harshly punishing, especially considering how everyone is now locked to being unable to roll on any further gear from the bosses they killed, even if they won nothing, until the next week.
4. Weekly boss lockouts review These are of course all loot-related concerns, as is the idea that the Raid Finder should allow you to roll on loot twice a week rather than only once per half of the Dragon Soul raid. In my opinion, limiting Raid Finder loot to a weekly lockout per boss defeats the purpose of making a more accessible raid. We don't restrict Dungeon Finder heroics to only granting loot once per day, even though normal heroics lock out on a daily basis. Just as random daily heroic instances allow us to roll repeatedly on gear, so should the Raid Finder, at least so long as it is also granting valor points.
5. Player persistence My final issue with the Raid Finder, and the one that annoys me more than all of the former combined (those are all minor in the grand scheme of things, since they involve loot, and loot rules can always be tweaked and changed), is that at present I'm seeing a lot of people immediately drop group after a wipe in the Raid Finder, even when it is clearly due to a momentary hiccough that will most likely be smoothed over in the next attempt. This can often lead to a cycle of dropping and joining that can delay another attempt, sometimes greatly so. Perhaps the penalty for dropping needs to be significant in length (an hour or more), since at present, I have no idea if there even is a penalty for dropping a Raid Finder group.
So now that I've listed my mercenary quibbles (and quibbles they are, for the most part), I ask you what you think would improve the Raid Finder. Backwards compatibility, allowing you to pug out older raids? Allowing larger groups of Real ID friends to queue together? Cross-faction Raid Finder? What would you like to see?
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 8 of 8)
thebl4ckd0g Dec 16th 2011 12:31PM
I wish they would make it so it scans players bags, bank and void storage before letting them roll on pieces - so they don't roll need on something that is not the spec they are currently playing. So if they already have that tier chest piece, they can't roll need on it with a bonus over others who actually really do need that as an upgrade.
Aaron Dec 16th 2011 12:56PM
Not agreeing with the decay. If I won a piece, I'd be a more likely to drop group knowing that my rolls are being messed with if anything else worth rolling on drops from that point on. Especially if I join a new group and my decay has been reset.
That said, I've ran my main and one alt through all 3 weeks and so far I've won a trinket on my main and that's it. haha. I need to find some loaded dice. :P
josh Dec 16th 2011 1:26PM
I have bigger problems with 5. Just as there are some terrible heroic runs, there are some terrible LFR groups too. There should not be any penalty, nor is there one now, for dropping bad raids. There's no valid reason behind it and it's a poor idea.
amnbrownie Dec 16th 2011 2:25PM
I think the last boss should have a few extra pieces of loot, something that can be aquired from the previous bosses. I rarely see a flood of people leave after a wipe...I primarily see people leaving after they didn't win the item they wanted. The VP isn't enough of an incentive to encourage people to stick it out. They're running it for gear, and so there should be a gear reward for staying around.
jason.g.ozias Dec 16th 2011 3:01PM
I think you solve the loot issues by removing all the gear from the bosses and putting all LFR gear on the VP vendor. Then, when you kill a boss reward the normal valor points plus 5-10 chances at extra valor (won by the highest rollers). Then you are running for valor only. No more double rewards, no more need on gear you can't use. All you can do is accrue valor and buy gear.
As if Deathwing has axes stored beneath his armor plating :).
kingsrook Dec 16th 2011 3:14PM
I think you have a valid point about a person rolling need on 2 pieces of the same gear. I personally have seen a druid win all 4 pieces of gear off one boss it was 2 tier emblems and 2 of the same trinket he won all 4 and them left group(SUPRISE LOL).
Honestly everyone would have rolled the same way but most of us would have then traded the extras to the next highest roller.
My idea is Blizzard should implement a 5 Sec delay in the distribution of each piece of loot and make it so that if some one has that piece in bag already they can not get the second piece as well and then the game itself give it to the next highest roller or do a reroll on that piece. This would not effect ppl that have that piece already equipt that are trying to get a second tier piece for off spec but would even out the loot for other players and cut out drama in the raids. That's just my 2 cents on it though LOL.
Stilhelm Dec 16th 2011 5:17PM
The loot things are truly screwy. I've taken 7 toons through all bosses available the first 2 weeks, (so 84 total boss kills) and managed to win 5 total pieces of gear. My hunter I've taken through the 3rd week too so far, and won a grand total of nothing in 20 boss kills on him, while doing by far the most dmg almost every fight (while watching every single token/trinket I could roll on go to the lowest dps). I went as heals on my paladin, and mostly stood around since the fights are tuned so no healing is required, and won 3 tier tokens in 4 bosses. So my theory is that the fail gets the loot (watch and see, someone who dies a few seconds into the fight, or does less damage than the tanks, is extremely likely to win something).
Doesn't work that way for a mage guildee, though, who can also roll through topping the charts and win a piece off every boss. Too bad mages and hunters don't share tier tokens, or I'd make sure I always went with him so I could eventually get something. Our rogue and druid were pretty happy they went with him to LFR this week, though.
laidback0378 Dec 16th 2011 7:54PM
Point 4 is just awful. Make LFR replace heroic dungeons as not only the basline source of loot but also make it so LFR gives more Valor than normal or even Heroic raids?
Say point 4 is granted, and Blizzard listens to you. What reason would they have to ever, ever make another dungeon? None. Far easier to just do the LFR, which is already retardedly easy, quicker, and gives better ilevel gear, including gear with set bonuses. Plus, run LFR twice a week and cap on Valor. Two full runs thru DS on LFR will give more Valor than a single run through DS on normal or heroic, and considering how easy LFR is, will probably be quicker.
After picking my jaw up from the floor after reading point 4 I felt compelled to respond. Dumbest article I have ever read on this site. Truly suprised there wasn't a point 6 -- suggesting that LFR loot should be one tier HIGHER than heroic, cause that would make LFR better and besides you probably DESERVE that gear.
Kage Dec 17th 2011 12:09AM
I want my default Raid Frames to stop glitching every time someone leaves. If it happens in combat my Raid Frames are screwed until I reload to the point where I click the tank to heal them and get a random Mage instead. I have to reload UI at least 2 times in most fights just from people joining or leaving.
As a healing this is a big problem.
goldeneye Dec 19th 2011 6:00AM
Not commenting on the viability of the suggestions made, the causes are very valid and I agree that a remedy would be a great boon the LFR system.
My personal wishlist however is topped by:
"Extending the LFR to all Cata raids".
Let me queue for Bastion of Twilight 10-man Normal. Let me queue op for 25-man Heroic Firelands. Apply some adequate iLvl requirements (iLvl 342 gear for BoL for instance).
I don't care if we wipe or only make it to the second boss. Right now all I have is 2 trash runs. 1 in BoL (knowing that Halfus was right around the corner was torture) and 1 in FL (we spawned Shannox, but naturally didn't take him on, *sad DK*).
I'm not asking for them to make LFR-versions as well (since that'd probably delay MoP), but I wouldn't object to it if they can fit it in somehow.
Norphine Dec 24th 2011 9:13PM
I agree with your issues about looting, esp. #4. I think it should be a "loot pinata" -- more or less. The general arguments not in favor of this don't convince me of anything. No, this is not really top quality loot. It is quality loot, but it does not stand at the top. Some of it is quite decent, but a large portion of it is barely an improvement over standard ilvl 378 dungeon gear. Seeing the content is great, but it isn't enough. People want gear, and while they are able to visit the content multiple times a week, it is needlessly restrictive to permit one and only roll per boss. In fact, if you start an encounter and end up leaving before it's finished, you lose your roll. There may be a justified reason for dropping out of an encounter, or better put a necessary reason. Increasing the number of rolls is a valid compromise -- as opposed to making loot rolls unlimited. Regarding the person who suggested that people would burn out on the content faster; I ask, so what? There will always be people unable to moderate themselves. This doesn't answer the question: why should a loot rolling policy be based on the existence of immoderate people as opposed to those who aren't. This seems excessively "nanny-ish" to me. I think Blizzard should consider satisfying player's desire for loot in a slightly less restrictive way. Either increase the number of rolls available to players per boss simply, or increase the number of rolls and cap the amount that a player can win. It's ludicrous that people will argue that it's good design to allow a single player to win all the loot in an LFR run, but it's poor design to allow players a second or third attempt at the loot in the same week.
LordRivis Jan 4th 2012 12:23PM
My thought on this, this is not a normal raid. A normal raid, albeit player enforced, systems to control and FAIRLY distribute loot. I think point 4 is honestly the most valid. This is essentially a 25man heroic. It doesn't feel anything like a raid, however it does let us see more story then most would see anyways.
Here is my thought on the matter, and I think this is a reasonable comprimise.
1. Once you win a gear piece, your locked out for the week. This stops people from needing on everything. This allows everybody an more equal chance to win loot, as there are 16 drops, and 16 drops between 2 25man raids.
2. Lock out is daily. This gives more of a pinata feel. Oh well. The loot isn't that great, it's hardly a step up from heroics gear. It will still take plenty long enough to gear out this way, however it is possible.
Reguardless of the changes that are made, the system is broken.