Drama Mamas: Friends like these
by Robin Torres 
Dec 19th 2011 at 6:00PM
This week's letter tells the story of friends in the physical world who aren't playing nice in WoW.
Hello Lisa and Robin,
I have two friends that I play WoW with. I'll call them Bill and Bob. Bill is kind of a rough-around-the-edges type in real life, and in WoW he typically makes abrasive comments in groups, needs on items for all his specs without any consideration for the rest of the group, and a bunch of other behaviors that I'd normally look down upon in a pug. I've had a few times where I've butted heads with him over this and other issues in both WoW and real life, and while he's gotten better about not treating me as badly, he hasn't learned to play nice with others quite as much, and I don't think he ever will, despite my repeated insistence that his behavior is not productive.
Bob is an older friend of Bill's that I met through WoW and have subsequently developed a real life friendship with. He is much nicer than Bill, but is a bit of a slow learner. He often makes very obvious mistakes (standing in fire, gearing incorrectly, spamming AoE on three mobs, etc), but doesn't quite seem to ever improve much despite repeated attempts by me to correct his mistakes. While Bob is much more friendly than Bill, he can sometimes get defensive when people call him out on his mistakes, especially with Bill around.
Both Bill and Bob are below average in whatever role they're performing (typically DPS, occasionally healing or tanking), and by their own admission they both appreciate me "carrying" them through the content (I'm almost always either the tank or the healer). The problem, if it wasn't obvious by now, is that this is quite stressful for me. I would normally just avoid grouping with them, but WoW is one of the few games we all can play together (the only other game besides WoW we have to play with the three of us is Rock Band), and we don't have very many activities to do together besides videogames and the very rare night out. They're also on my Real ID, so there's not really any way of escaping them.
I like the new content that 4.3 has brought, but Bill and Bob are making it very difficult to enjoy said content, to the point where I'm almost considering taking a break against my will. Any advice would be appreciated.
-- Trapped by Friendship
Drama Mama Lisa: Trapped, it's time to strike out on your own a bit -- and strangely enough, this is going to involve turning to your friends rather than away from them. It's time to enlist them in the excitement of taking your character to a new level.Your strategy here is to network your way into another level of gaming. Press all your Dungeon Finder and Raid Finder contacts into service. If you already belong to a guild, move into position for deeper raiding involvement. If you don't belong to a guild, start those apps rolling! Then (and only then), once you have some momentum, it's time to unleash the enthusiasm on Bill and Bob. Confide in them the excitement of the new opportunities that are landing in your lap -- and be sure to point out amid your whispers that you're trying to figure out what nights are best to reserve for grouping with them.
In all likelihood, Bill and Bob will want you to help them ascend to the same level. Be noncommittal. Make it clear that you have no inside pull in your new situation and that they'll have to make any applications under their own steam and on their own skill and merits.
In the meantime, tread carefully but clearly with any new guild contacts. It's not necessary to denigrate the skill of your friends or warn potential guild or raid leaders away, but you should make it clear early on that you're currently playing with a few casual friends and you're specifically seeking to take your gameplay to a higher level. You can let them know the score without putting down your buddies; most savvy GMs will catch on to the implications.
The key in all of this is honesty. If you stay open and above-board with all of this, you can explore new horizons without dumping or alienating your buddies. Sure, things will be different ... But that's what you're hoping for, right?
Best of luck on your new gaming path!
Drama Mama Robin: Lisa is exactly right about this. To be clear, you are going to put your priority on raiding or dungeoning without your friends. But you will still be playing with them on off nights.I think it's important that you find a WoW activity with them that does not involve anyone else in your group. As long as they believe you will just carry them through group activities without their having to adjust their behaviors, they honestly don't belong there. You are not the only person having a bad time with them in dungeons. Is it really fair to keep inflicting these two on strangers?
I recommend Battlegrounds. They are a lot of fun, with the right attitude, and don't require a precise knowledge of how to maximize your class. Also, etiquette is pretty lax in Battlegrounds. In fact, there are a lot of Bills there.
If none of you enjoy PvP, you might try a trio of leveling characters. Or you could grind up some reputation/exploration/quest achievements together.You could also run through older content to try to get rare drops like the Baron's ride. There is so much to do in Azeroth that doesn't require more than the three of you, and it's time for you to explore it.
I also suspect that they aren't actually all that into dungeons. Their lackadaisical attitude toward their characters and irritation with other people leads me to believe that it isn't their kind of fun. I bet they will be very open to not having run current content with you. If they aren't, however, it's time for you to have a serious talk about them sucking your fun. Maybe they don't realize that while they lack class and people skills, they are among the buzzkill elite. Tell them that allowing you to play non-dungeon content with them (but still pursuing it with others) is the only way for them to stop harshing your mellow. If they truly are friends, they'll understand that.
Good luck and tell us how things turn out.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com. Read Robin's section of this post on how to get your letter answered and please remember that we cannot answer privately.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Imnick Dec 19th 2011 6:29PM
I never really understood the saying "With friends like these, who need enemies?"
The meaning (my friends are as good as enemies) is clear enough, but honestly I think my friends are rather good and I still have no requirement for enemies at all.
You could shorten it to "Who need enemies?" and it would be equally valid.
Glyphstone Dec 19th 2011 6:34PM
I've always seen it as "With 'friends' like these, who needs enemies?" - adding the quote marks around friends emphasizes the point that they're not good friends at all, the way you can't get across in text.
Lishalacey Dec 19th 2011 7:06PM
Is it sad that I am only just now getting the joke from Finding Nemo?
http://youtu.be/uRwh4BTAn1Q
Though, let's be honest, I still probably don't get it.
kikimarooni Dec 19th 2011 7:13PM
'With friends like these, who needs enemies' ie. My friends are so terrible, I don't need anyone else to fulfil the role of 'enemy' cause I've brought my own! :)
MacAndy Dec 19th 2011 8:38PM
Funniest typo ever - once a long time ago in a whisper to me:
With friends like these, who needs enemas
I LOLed IRL
Duts Dec 20th 2011 11:37AM
@MacAndy That's actually not a typo. It's a joke off of the saying that's been around forever.
Bronwyn Dec 19th 2011 6:41PM
I am in a similar situation in that my fiance and I game with my in-laws (his family)- it can get really stressful but we are thankfully to the point where they understand that they're not good enough for current content, so we plan time to do retro raids together and the like. They are pretty active in pvp, and have multiple "teams" of characters they level together, so we can still do stuff together.
Koraya Dec 19th 2011 7:05PM
Exactly my situation- except its my dad and grandad that my hubby and I play with. Dad is decent and even raids with PuG's once in a blue moon, not so much my grandpa.
Hubby and I are hardcore raiders, among the top 3 guilds on our server.
We do 5 mans together, some old world stuff, but only 1x a week. The other six days are free for raiding, or doing dungeons alone (Dungeon Finder style or or otherwise), or trolling Trade/AH.
Maybe Trapped doesn't have to fill all his time on WoW to squeeze his buddies out, but rather tell them he is stressed and really just needs so many days a week to himself (as he needs), to do the content his style. Maybe they feel that they 'have' to group with him if he's on just b/c that's what they always do.
rayden54 Dec 19th 2011 6:56PM
I call bullshit on both the replies. Here's the truth: They're not good enough for the type of content you want to do, and they're NOT going to be able to follow you. You WON'T end up playing with them because your new guild will always come first, and if you do play with them you'll resent them because you'd rather be with your guild.
Robin and Lisa are both suggesting you string them along in the off chance that you'll play with them again. They're either going to have to get used to playing without you or they're going to have to find something else to play.
Not telling them what you want, is just going to end up wasting their time and more importantly, their money.
Quaza Dec 19th 2011 7:07PM
That's exactly the point; the OP wants a chance to explore current content without their friends dragging them down. They can still hang out with their friends on off-nights, but raid / dungeon with people they no longer have to carry.
Shinae Dec 19th 2011 7:41PM
Thing is, guilds usually don't have things going on every night. Many raiding guilds' rosters only fill up during raid times. If Trapped gets into a raiding guild, he should still have time to spend with his friends. As long as he schedules and plans time with his friends more precisely, it will actually lead to LESS wasted time for them.
Gniver Dec 20th 2011 5:16AM
I agree. It is pretty poor advice to string everybody along when you know it will never work.
Still, wouldn't it be nice if it could work? I mean if you could play what your wanted with your friends. It ought to be possible, WoW being a social game and all.
Lilliah Dec 20th 2011 10:38AM
I think honesty with your friends is the best policy. You CAN tell them you want something more from the game without hurting their feelings or losing their friendship. Who knows? ...after trying another guild, you may find you enjoy playing with your friends more. It's okay to take a character and try something different.
lolikitty Dec 19th 2011 6:59PM
This is one of the reasons why i will never ever use the Real ID thing (that and the fact that i secretely rolled a gnome and am still quite ashamed)
Noyou Dec 19th 2011 7:18PM
I think you are more on the mark than our dear Mama's this time around. It is very disenchanting to have a real friend or WoW buddy suddenly split off of what you used to enjoy for whatever reason. It is a good idea to tell them you might be interested in running newer content and have dates/times reserved. There is no shame in that. There is also no shame in rolling an alt that you don't tell them about. First and foremost, you have to be happy playing WoW or anything you do in your free time.
As far as playing Gnomes- you go. There is many a night where I secretly long for Gnome paladins so I can race change my Draenei to one. I settle for clicking on http://www.wowhead.com/item=54651/gnomeregan-pride and announcing /say I am the cutest Gnome on the planet! As I ride through on my chopper ;)
blastermyer Dec 19th 2011 7:21PM
Half of the battle is just to admit it to strangers, which you have just done. Next step is to admit the Gnomishish streak in you to your significant other. It will work out ok. lol
I rolled a gnome a couple of years ago and have had fun playing it, and don't care what others think!
Peter Dec 19th 2011 7:30PM
I'm an active raider and BG lover. Please, don't subscribe to the idea that BGs are a place to play when you're not very good. Wrong. You still need to know how to play. BGs are often filled with terrible players, and for those of us that really enjoy BGs, it can be annoying.
Sure, BGs might be the answer. But if you're going to go that route, at least recommend that they learn the BG and deck out in resilience before joining. Spend some worthless justice points on honor ahead of time! Don't drive around with the glaives in the middle of the map! Don't continually cap in EotS if we only have one tower!
Braden5792 Dec 19th 2011 10:54PM
You should just stamp, "I'm an elitist!" on your forehead. Why a horrible way to discourage people from trying new activities in-game. BGs are there for people to fool around and enjoy a different aspect of the game. If you really want to be the high and mighty type you should pickup whatever buddies will have you and reach for a Gladiator title. Otherwise, stay calm and show people the ropes in the BGs.
dj.clayden Dec 19th 2011 11:25PM
@Braden
Do you also feel random dungeons are a place for people to "fool around"?
GhostWhoWalks Dec 20th 2011 2:12AM
Braden, there's a difference between teaching people how to PvP and suffering deaths and defeats because doesn't atleast do some basic preparation for the activity they're about to do. I'm not a hardcore PvPer, I made a PvP healer mainly to fight for my server's Tol Barad and to get a few random BGs in every now and then. But I can't tell you how many times I've had to hit my head onto the desk while watching people wearing not a single piece of resilience gear completely weigh down the rest of the team. I can keep people alive fairly well, but when that Paladin over there might as well be wearing paper, there's only so much I can do. Just as bad is when the team is made to look like fools because half of the group can't understand basic concepts of group coordination and awareness of your surroundings. In other words, it's not very helpful when a handful of people stop to fight on the roads in Arathi Basin, or run in one at a time to attack the opposing flag carrier in Warsong Gulch. Someone will try to point out what they're doing wrong so that they can get in line with the rest of the team, but they're so focused on just getting kills that they don't pay attention to chat. As Clayden mentioned, BGs are just like dungeons; it's important to have some basic consideration for the people you're grouped with and not be a hassle.
If Trapped really wants to do some stress-free PvPing with their friends, they can try and set up some War Games with friendly guildies, or jump into Tol Barad (as long as a player sticks with the group and stays within the range of a base's flag, they can focus on simply fighting and getting kills while still contributing to the team).