Completely agree. We're a 25 man guild that got 2 staves made before Dragon Soul dropped, and now we run a 10 man on the weekends to try to get our third staff done since he's on the last collection part. It's a real trial getting people to show up, and I don't blame them at all. Firelands was fun the first few months, but now a lot of our raiders are sick to death of it. To encourage people to come, we've opened the run up to Dragon Soul ready alts (as we need the maelstroms to supply guildies with enchants) and we do achievements.

Our group's mostly solid, but we're stuck on Rags right now. Some people cannot handle transitions or make one silly mistake they know better than to make, but forgot from the week before, or weren't paying attention, etc. Our arcane mage is somehow having problems with burst damage on Sons, so the raid leader is actually going over to her place to see what's going on with her setup; she should be able to do this.

I like my raid group; casual folks, not all of them excellent players, but competent enough. On twitchy fights like Rags though anything from computer issues to a player with slower reflexes can slow up a team. It's a very busy fight. We'll hit our stride sooner than later I think, or come back to Rags in a bit.

We're going with option 6 ourselves. One night is Firelands, working on our staff, and some time in Dragon Soul hitting the first couple bosses for gear if there's time, if not, we head over there night 2 to work on progression, checking Baradin Hold either time.

PuGs on your server kill Rag. PuGs on my server simply died out. Which server you're on makes a big difference.

He was aggravated because the person that said it had already downed Rag with a pug. So to that person, game was won, screw the others let's move on.

I'd be pissed too.

One should always be thankful for the one guy capable of telling you what everyone is thinking while everyone else is bottling it up. Note that this is not the same as the one guy who tells you what he alone is thinking.

There's a place for both though.

@Emophia

This guild sounds a lot like the one I left, and in their particular case, they were on a very, very small server with terrible progression. Only a handful of the most top-end guilds on that realm could kill Ragnaros, and certainly our guild couldn't-ours couldn't even get past like the second boss because of behind-the-scenes drama for a long time (ironically largely in part because of the raid leaders-who thought it was fine to stop a raid mid-run to go yell at members basically).

So basically, even with what a guild/raid leader thinks is a solid group, sometimes a "solid group" on one server or to one person isn't quite as "solid" as a group on another realm. And at least in that case, that tiny server didn't really support pugs in that way, so it's not unheard of.