Scattered Shots: Pet talent possibilities in Mists of Pandaria

We all know by now that talents are going to work a lot differently in the Mists of Pandaria expansion, but what we don't know yet is exactly what's going to happen with our pet talent trees. Not only that, but Blizzard itself isn't entirely sure what it's going to do about them, other than not wanting to leave them the way they are now. We do know that we will get to choose what family our pets belong to. If you tame a cat, you can choose to make it a tenacity, cunning, or ferocity pet. But pet talents are a bit up in the air.
There are currently two possibilities for pet talents. The first is to remove pet talents entirely, making your pet's special abilities and spec -- tenacity, ferocity, or cunning -- the only unique features of the pet. Thus, every ferocity cat is the same as every other ferocity cat. This option is dull and dreary with nothing interesting or engaging about it. Call it the Shaman Option, in other words, or the Blah Option.
The other possibility is to revamp the pet talent system so that it more closely resembles the new character talent system in MoP. In this system, we turn some pet talents into spec abilities, and then give an abbreviated tree of meaningful choices. I call this the Awesome Option -- or in other words, the Hunter Option. You're going to love it. Here's how the Awesome Option could work.
Spec abilities
Just like the MoP class system, the first step of revamping the hunter pet talents should be to take those must-have talents and make them instead into abilities that pets automatically get as they level up within that spec. Thus, Call of the Wild isn't a talent; instead, it's something available to ferocity pets at level 60 (or whatever) automatically.
Of course, also like the class talent revamp, we should ditch a handful of the talents that aren't really compelling. The idea here is to take the mandatory stuff that defines a pet spec and make it a spec ability; throw out the stuff we don't care much about; and leave behind some choices that are actually decisions without always having a right answer.
Here are the pet talents that I would convert into pet spec abilities:
Ferocity
Cunning
Tenacity
The goal here is to preserve the feel of the specs -- ferocity as the DPS spec, tenacity as the tanking spec, and cunning as the PvP spec. In Cataclysm, things got a little blurry between cunning and ferocity, with some cunning damage-dealing talents making the two specs a bit too close in DPS potential, in my opinion.
I ditched the go-to Culling the Herd since it was a must-have for every spec that just boosted DPS. Any time you have something like that in the mix, the right design solution is to get rid of it entirely and just adjust raw DPS to compensate. However, I did assign Wild Hunt to every pet spec; this is one of the great innovations of Cataclysm that protects pets from focus capping. In fact, it should really just be added as a baseline pet ability, rather than spec-specific.
Awesome pet talents
Here is how I would set up the pet talent choices. Rather than choosing between three talents as characters will, I'd suggest the pets just get to choose one of two talents each tier. This continues the tradition of making the pet's version of talents a bit simpler than the characters. I would, however, keep the same number of tiers as players get (six).
Here are a bunch of possible talent pairings that should result in some good decision making and hopefully won't usually have a right answer. Some of the numbers may have to be tweaked a bit, but I think this is a strong starting point.
- Dash or Charge A simple choice between a super-fast close with boosted starting damage or a longer-lasting speed burst that's better for target switching. Good tier 1 choice, I think. Also, I'd ditch Dive. We don't need two talents that do the identical thing for flavor reasons. No, we don't.
- Shark Attack or Spider Bite I know, I know. Any time you have a choice between two DPS options, we'll be able to math out which is technically best. But I think it's important that at least one tier has two meaningful damage boosting options; more on the reason why later. Obviously the numbers would have to be balanced against each other as well.
- Great Stamina or Natural Armor I'm the least excited about this one. I like having it there for the option of extreme soloing, pet tanking or farming lots of mobs, but in practice, you'll only ever use Great Stamina for raids. From that perspective, you could ditch this pair.
- Intervene or Hunter's Best Friend Our first new talent here. Hunter's Best Friend would be an ability that heals the hunter for 5% of the damage done by the pets basic attacks. The idea here is you're choosing between a very small amount of steady hunter self-heals or the ability to help out your tank/healers in pinch situations.
- Taunt or Revengeance Another new ability. Revengeance is a slightly toned-down version of the Vengeance special ability that all tanks have access to, to help their threat scale. I also think Taunt should be upgraded to a real Taunt, not the fake pet version we have now.
- Heart of the Phoenix or Cower That's right, I'd remove Cower from the baseline and make you choose between it and Heart of the Phoenix!
- Mauled or Fire Breathing We gotta have two new totally awesome talents at the end of the tree. Mauled lets your pets basic attacks hit up to two additional targets in range. Fire Breathing lets you make any pet breathe fire as a short-range, channeled conical AoE with a decent cooldown. These are dangerous weapons in the hands of the unskilled, I know. Lots more ability to break CC, and you'd have to have the ability to turn both abilities off.
Beast mastery
As a final note on these tiers, we have to keep in mind the beast mastery ability, Beast Mastery. Currently it gives BM hunters four extra pet talent points that in practice aren't that useful, since you can get just about every DPS pet talent without it.
I'd have Beast Mastery allow BM hunters two extra talent points. They can pick two tiers and actually get both pet talents in the tier. This is why I feel it's so important to have one tier that offers two pet DPS options. This way, BM hunters can net their pets a clear DPS advantage with their namesake ability -- not to mention two AoE abilities at the bottom of the tier!
With the exception of a handful of hunters who'd like to do away with pets entirely (yeah, they're out there), I think most hunters can see how much cooler and more exciting pet talents could become under the new Awesome Option. The talent choices can be meaningful and do exactly what the class talent system aims to do. When you see a sporebat coming at you, you won't be able to know exactly what to expect -- because not every sporebat will be specced exactly the same!
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
coville Dec 22nd 2011 9:36AM
Well written Frost. I like the idea of teiring the pet talents to match player talents in MoP.
I would like to suggest Blizzard look at making Hutners a bit more versatile by creating a tank talent tree for BM pets and/or healing talent tree for SV pets.
I would love to see Hunters be able to offer a healing pet to raids or to carry a tanking pet for heroics.
rokkitan Dec 22nd 2011 10:25AM
I'd love to talent my pet into either a tanking, ferocity or dps pet regardless of current family in Cataclysm. Talents could be a way to do this, but then I'd like to choose all/most survival talents and not be forced to choose between dps talents for tank pet and vice versa, so Shark Attack or Spider Bite and Great Stamina or Natural Armor and Taunt or Revengeance are bad options. Others are good suggestions. Mauled or Fire Breathing is a nice choice between aoe or multiple target tanking/damage options and an increased single target damage talent would fill in nicely there.
Alternatively pet talents could be to choose which buff the pet brings instead of tying that to family, and let BM hunters get access to a top tier that gives an exotic buffs and let all hunters tame the (currently) exotic pets. I want a Loque'nahak but don't like BM much.
Frostheim Dec 22nd 2011 10:27AM
You can do this in MoP: tame a pet, any pet, and you can choose to make it tenacity.
The idea of the talents, however, is to try to make meaningful choices. Hard choices is the goal. So if you're choice is spider bite or great stamina... that's not a choice: there's a right answer. If you raid you take the dps, if you're tanking you take the stamina. Every raiding pet would be specced the same.
The goal here is to have choices where there isn't a perfectly clear "right" answer, so that not all raiding pets are specced exactly the same, and so making the decision involved a decision.
rokkitan Dec 22nd 2011 12:43PM
I'm looking forward to the new player talent trees in MoP, but I'm not sure the talents for pets have to be similar hard choices; The talents could also be used for customizing the pet instead of choosing a tenacity/cunning/ferocity spec, but both works for me as long as we get pets that can tank and pets that can dps. I'd argue that Great Stamina or Natural Armor is only interesting for a tanking pet, for raiding stamina is the right answer every time, unless our pet's are going to tank in raids/dungeons. Heart of the Phoenix or Cower is a better one for dps, but for tanking I'd go with cower almost every time.
Using talents for choosing which buff to bring would improve choice and letting BM choose from a final tier or two to get an exotic buff and/or more tanking/dps would be nice.
moobinator Dec 23rd 2011 2:18PM
I have always liked the Idea of allowing All hunters tame any pet, remove the Exotic term.
But give BM hunters an extra talent tier or special pet ability that makes it worth going BM for. This way a BM can tame any pet he likes as well and still have a special ability added on and the hunters can tame some of the more interesting pets, or use the ones they already have without the special ability.
On the specs, I think it would be interestig for the pet talents to tie into the Hunter talents, depending on your spec and choices your pet will gain cetain abilities automatically, then add a few choices that would modify the behavior of the pet, like staying targeted on whatever I want him on and not switching when I do ( make it a talent choice)
moobinator Dec 23rd 2011 2:24PM
How about for a BM special talent and Pet Battle Res, instant cast Pet res, get them back into battle fast.
bloodandguts Dec 22nd 2011 11:29AM
So sporebats will be able to hit bosses with something other than there man parts, and make rogues bleed from somewhere other than there anus.
Kazador Dec 22nd 2011 11:56AM
The issue I'd love to see you address is what to do with the pet-specific abilities (Shell-Shield, Web, etc). Do you think those should stay as is? Given the reduced number of raid buffs in MoP, what do you think should be given to pets whose signature ability is eliminated?
techvoodooguy Dec 22nd 2011 9:55PM
Something that makes you, your friend(s) and/or your pet significantly less dead IMO.
Mechakisc Dec 22nd 2011 12:16PM
I never said do away with pets entirely ... I just want a talent in Marksman that does away with my pet and let's me pew pew more. Other people should still be able to play the game they want :)
Would solve problems like we're having on Spine, too ...
Daniel Dec 22nd 2011 8:14PM
^ this. I love pets, sometimes. But I'd also like more of a traditional "marksman" option. No pet, just a sharpshooter.
Luotian Dec 23rd 2011 3:35PM
Third that. I like pets well enough, and I do HAVE a BM hunter. But I want my main and OTL of MM to be the sniper/sharpshooter I imagined her to be originally. Keep your pets, and by all means keep BM, but give me one spec option where I can do comparable damage without it, please.
GabeCo Jan 3rd 2012 4:42PM
Especially with MoP, and the change to remove our min range, this would be more practical than ever. One of the biggest reasons pets exist in the first place is to solve the min range problem while leveling.
Ringo Flinthammer Dec 22nd 2011 12:27PM
Was there any talk about pet racial abilities? I have this (hopefully silly) fear that they'll get rid of them. I think they were one of the big wins of Cataclsym -- I know that I rotate through my five pets a whole lot more than I did in previous eras.
Brock Dec 22nd 2011 4:13PM
I think that instead of extra talent points, BM should be allowed to have two pets out at once. I really like your ideas of talents. I hope they make it interesting. I am worried that they will remove pet talents in order to make things easier.
DaSandman Dec 22nd 2011 6:11PM
This would be AMAZING, but probably too amazing (op) so I doubt we'll ever get it :(
techvoodooguy Dec 22nd 2011 9:58PM
This would be fantastic. We already know that they *can* give us two pets at once (Feral Spirits, Grimoire of Domination (?)), so why not? There would, of course, be tradeoffs. For example: each pet has its damage reduced by 40% (so we're getting 120% pet damage by having two out. We can't remove ALL of the damage advantage of it, can we?) and the cooldowns of both pet special abilities are increased by 15%. Two pets with the same special ability have that ability on a shared cooldown (so no double Web, double blind, double stun, double heal, etc), but don't suffer from the 15% CD increase.
Othor_NL Dec 23rd 2011 5:36AM
The damage reduction when you have two pets active could be called [Pet Rivalry]
Oz Dec 22nd 2011 6:36PM
Personally i never quite understood why your pet despawns as soon as you die. (from a story standpoint anyway. i get there are technical issues with it) It makes much more sense to me if you die, or maybe hit a low percentage, your pet goes into a berserker rage for like 5 seconds. Lots of bosses (i'm looking at you Shannox) have pets that go crazy when their master is in danger of dying. Why can't ours? It would even make for a good choice for the last tier of the pet tree.
Hal Dec 22nd 2011 7:51PM
Perhaps that could be a talented choice:
-When the hunter is at or below 30% health, the pet goes into rage, boosting damage by X%
-When the pet dies, the hunter goes into a rage, boosting damage by Y%
An interesting trade off. Thanks, Shannox!