Breakfast Topic: Do you PvP to win or to make the enemy lose?
by Matthew Rossi 
Dec 24th 2011 at 8:00AM
Is it to capture a flag? Assault an enemy warmaster? Take over a base? It really does not matter. I seriously don't even care if we win sometimes, just so long as they don't. This is not always possible, mind you. But one of my best moments was in managing to charge into Drek's room on my tauren, hit every survival cooldown, and fear, then Shockwave the Alliance's healers, keeping them occupied just long enough for Drek to kill their tank. Did I survive it? Heck, no. Neither did they. And it was glorious -- even though we still lost.
Something about PvP just makes me like this. I don't care if I win, as long as you lose, forcing you to try and recap a tower or run back to Mage Tower, or even keeping you in mid-field while your flag runs back to the Dragonmaw base.
Have you ever felt this way? Have you even PvPed purely out of spite?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Pantro Dec 24th 2011 8:04AM
Always :p
twilit.soul Dec 24th 2011 8:13AM
It is the most pure form of pvp enjoyment, to me. I often sacrifice myself to occupy several people at once, if only for the purpose of keeping them from doing anything but focusing on me instead of an objective.
Gordal Dec 24th 2011 8:46AM
This is partly why I chose to be a Survival Hunter in PvP.
I'm old, my reactions are a little slower than they used to be, so I know I could never be an excellent PvP player. But by golly I can be a pretty good distraction; trapping, wyvern stinging, and getting people to chase me as I bounce their spells back in their face (Oh, how I wish I'd seen the look on the face of that Shaman I killed with her own Lava Burst). By the time I'm pretty much dead, I can have three or four people chasing me.
And of course that means their flag is unguarded. I guess this means I play to make the enemy lose.
Sharky-Sharky Dec 24th 2011 12:04PM
I do this exact same thing and it's the first thing I thought of when I read the article and came to comment, but then read yours. I have (in many cases) held multiple people from leaving a flag in AB just do the rest of the group had less to deal with on the other flags. Is fun to see how long I last for as well. Haha
Elientralla Dec 24th 2011 4:04PM
AB = Lumber Mill.
AV = bridge to Alliance base.
BoG = hill in the middle and Lighthouse.
EoS = small island with flag.
IoC = enemy towers and Hangar.
SotA = enemy boats and gates.
TP = anywhere around Alliance base.
WSG = roof of enemy flag room.
/cast Thunderstorm
/yell FOOLED YOU ONCE, SHAMAN ON YOU!
This is what makes me sleep at night.
Derrek Dec 31st 2011 6:02PM
Depending on what mood I'm in, I have three identifiable mental attitudes in PvP:
Play to Win - This is usually the mindset I have when I play my healing toons, but I tend to use supportive team-play strategies on other toons as well. Fearing rogues off the friendly over there in the corner, dismantling the prot warrior who just charged our healer, deathgripping a ret pally off the flag carrier. Winning is the motivation but most of the reward comes from employing a tactic and seeing it carry through successfully. Over the course of the game, these miniature victories add up, and even if we don't end up winning the battleground, it's easier to shrug off a loss because I know I did my personal best to help the team and that's all that really matters. As the saying goes, it's not about whether you win or lose, it's about how you play the game. Running the BG with friends and guildies tends to help facilitate this positive mindset.
Play to Frustrate - I try to do this on all my toons but particularly my rogue and blood DK. Harrying, pestering, recklessly charging in to prevent a node cap for another few seconds, ganking stragglers on the roads, I pretty much do it all just to frustrate the enemy team. Usually in pug BGs but sometimes in guild runs as well.
Play to Kill - I don't care whether we win or lose, I just want to kill the enemy players. This mindset happens most often when I'm running on some sort of caffeinated beverage. Personal skill and pride are sometimes involved as well; plus it's just fun to challenge yourself to new heights of player-slaying. Killing-streak addons are particularly helpful with this, as it's a constant game of beating your own personal record regardless of whether your team wins the battle or not. I find myself playing like this in pug BGs more than anything else.
And yes, some may say that such a self-centered playstyle detracts from the overall goal of the battleground. But honestly, if a guy can't enjoy killing the other players in a PvP battleground, where's the point in the first place?
Camo Dec 24th 2011 8:17AM
Never, I play to achieve not to get a draw.
Wiedmaier Dec 24th 2011 11:48AM
I think you and Rossi are both missing the larger picture here: the concept of defense. Do you think a defensive end goes out there thinking, "who cares if we win?" just because his role isn't scoring points? Would you say a right tackle, whose only job is to make that defensive end fail at his job, is not actually playing to win? Stopping a flag or farm cap, or slowing an AV group can make the difference between winning or not.
(I know that was two football analogies, but it is the sport most specialized.)
Chineselegolas Dec 24th 2011 8:20AM
Is one of the best things about PVP. Shadow Priests properly rotating abilities are a bitch to take down, number of times in random BG get half the other team riled up trying to kill me instead of focusing on winning.
But I'm alliance so the rest of my team usually folds to what few horde actaully go for the goal.
B1ue Dec 24th 2011 10:12AM
Indeed. Shadow priest pvp is probably the most fun I've ever had in battlegrounds. I used to think I loved pvp healing, until I tried spriest and I have had a blast. I rarely rock the meters, and everyone says mean things when I run the flag (even though everyone else was just staring at the damn thing and I usually have more damage reduction and more health than the average tank in a non-rated), but I can set my teeth into four or five opponents and make them work to kill me.
ImSteevin Dec 24th 2011 3:03PM
Try a feral! Lots of annoying control plus legit flag carrying power! Seriously the most fun I've had, shadow is super fun too though.
Bart Dec 24th 2011 8:20AM
I PvP for Honor...points.
My Battlegroup is rather messed up, people seem to think it's a good idea to:
Hump the Blacksmith for 20 minutes in AB.
Hump the Alliance/Horde Boss in AV even though the other team has recapped their towers and taking all of ours down.
Try to solo the enemy defence in WSG.
Ignore bombs (Disarm or use) in SotA.
And so on, this seems to happen no matter what side I am on and it baffles me to no end why people can't see the obvious mistakes we're making and instead decide to keep messing up and just get pity honor.
Bart Dec 24th 2011 8:21AM
WTB Edit button.
Basically, I rather dislike PuG PvP. So I try to only do friend/guild arena as soon as I have a decent set of PvP gear.
Malnore Dec 24th 2011 8:21AM
For the achievements!! Duh.
SamLowry Dec 24th 2011 2:46PM
Holiday achievements here!
Oh how it irritates serious PvPers to see us running away from fights because we can't lose the Santa's Little Helper buff (die once and there's no point in staying) or selfishly doing stupid things during Childrens' Week because Blizz is making us do it for the achievements.
Hey, Devs, make the achievements more sensible--and maybe put a Little Helper machine in each BG--and maybe we won't pull so much aggro from our own team.
Kelly Dec 27th 2011 9:21AM
You'll know me in BGs as the guy continually yelling "KILL THE HEALERS!".... However, when I see someone wearing a red santa outfit as a gmome - SCREW THE HEALER, I KILL YOU!
Yeah, it's a form of griefing, and I LOVE IT. And as a rogue, running from me really isn't an option.
See you next year :)
Gendou Dec 24th 2011 8:24AM
I play to win, rather than to make the enemy lose.
Because battlegrounds - at least for me - are not about personal skill or honor or ability, but about which side has the fewest unskilled, ungeared pugs looking to soak up honor for their 5th alt.
Given the amount of frustration involved (and the rarity with which I PVP anymore), I don't see the point in making the pain last any longer than it has to. If the other side is winning, I don't give up, but I don't try to wipe them on Drek if our side is still wiping on Balinda with only 100 reinforcements left.
The exception to that rule are the premades that you come across steamrolling everyone in the smaller BG's. They have a group of four or five people from the same guild, outfitted in the latest Arena gear, and they're killing time waiting for their RBG group to fill up. Those guys? Those guys I try and mess with as much as possible, because I am a bitter and vindictive person deep down inside.
But in normal battlegrounds? I just want to get in and out as quickly as possible.
... why yes, I did burn out on the Vanilla honor ladder grind. Why do you ask? :)
Mortenebra Dec 24th 2011 9:02AM
"Those guys? Those guys I try and mess with as much as possible, because I am a bitter and vindictive person deep down inside."
... Are... Are you my PvP twin?? :D
Tili Dec 24th 2011 12:39PM
I don't understand why talking about pre-made groups in BGs always has to turn into an all out "us" vs "them" hate war. I don't know about you, but I like to win, and having a few people actually co-ordinating with each other usually helps ;) I notice people don't complain about a premade group when it's on their team, but if the other team has a pre-made group it's nothing but QQ about how Blizzard shouldn't let them into our BG, blah blah blah. Saying that guild groups should stay out of regular BGs is like saying that raiding guilds should stay out of 5 mans. It's ridiculous.
For the record, though, I am against GY camping. I refuse to take part in it even if my team is doing it. I've been GY camped and it's not fun. That's usually when I just leave the BG. I'd rather just focus on winning the game and move on. So I guess you can say I'm all about winning but not all about grinding my opponents into the dust and then spitting on them. It's fun to kill an EFC before he even gets to the touch the flag. It's fun to make a healer go oom and then chain CC them instead of killing them. It's fun to keep a group distracted from their goal by charging into the middle. All these things are strategies that help you complete the BG objectives. GY camping isn't a strategy it's just a cheap shot.
Gendou Dec 24th 2011 3:53PM
@Tili:
People in PUG BG groups hate seeing a premade on the other team, because in a PUG BG, any amount of coordination or skill will turn the tide and generally mean a very one-sided loss. So when you're out there trying to get honor and you see a group in good gear, all from the same server or same guild, you know that you're about to lose and lose very badly, not due to your own skill, but because your team necessarily lacks the coordination to effectively counter such a combination of gear, coordination and skill. Sometimes, after it happens a few times, it begins to take a mental toll, and while you know you're going to lose, by Thrall's balls you are not going to lose to a five-cap or a 3-0 or whatever.
Of course it feels good to have that kind of skill and coordination on your side. I've participated in guild BG's in the past, and having a group of people on Mumble or Vent, moving as one and coordinating their attacks works amazingly well, precisely because the other side is very much unlikely to have any coordination remotely close to it.
Having been on both sides of the equation, I both know the joy of steamrolling the other side in a premade and being steamrolled by a premade. Hence my bitterness and vindictiveness when keeping them from being as effective winners as perhaps they would normally be.
I don't go so far as to say that premades should be banned from regular BG's, but I sympathize with the sentiment. It can be really demoralizing to have premade after premade stomp your crappy pug teams into the ground over and over when all you're trying to do is get a win. Knowing as soon as you see the other teams's names that a win is unlikely is really rough and feels like you're having your time wasted. A lot of people just eat the 30 minute deserted debuff rather than go through that kind of humilation.
(also, comparing arena/RBG premades in regular BG's to raiders in 5-man instances is a very, very poor comparison - unless those poor mobs in Heroic SFK getting stomped by someone in full T13 are actually other players being demoralized and having their time wasted)