Gold Capped: The art of negotiating for luxury goods
by Fox Van Allen 
Dec 26th 2011 at 10:00PM
As someone who greatly enjoys getting presents, I love Christmas. But the truth is that I love the day after Christmas just as much. On Dec. 26, all the stores know you're loaded up with cash and gift cards from your relatives. It's the one day of the year where I get to shop for luxuries as if they're everyday purchases.
The urge is there in World of Warcraft, too. I've worked so hard all year long to make money. You have too. But you can't just sit on those millions forever. Money in WoW is a tool -- it's pointless if you don't spend at least a little bit (or, in the case of today's column, spend a lot of it just to prove you can). I'm not just talking Mechano-hogs and Vials of the Sands here, expensive though those purchases may be. I'm talking about the true World of Warcraft luxuries -- your Magic Rooster Eggs and Swift Spectral Tigers, things only a true Auction House maven will ever own.
When an item is being sold in absolute minimal quantity, it's simply impossible for markets to do what they do best. You can't get the opinions of hundreds of sellers, cross-matched against the opinions of hundreds of buyers, to get one reliable, stable market price. You get the opinion of one seller (if you're lucky) cross-matched against your own senses. If you think this is a simple market to play in, you're wrong. It's the elite level, like a game of Jeopardy! where all three contestants are Watson supercomputers. And because it's the elite level, tactics can get (and are almost expected to get) real dirty, real fast.
Public opinion: Worthless
So, what's that Magic Rooster Egg worth? Finding the right answer is pretty tricky. Finding the wrong answer is simple -- just ask trade or the official forums.
A lot of people have opinions on what you should pay for that luxury item. Unfortunately, most of these opinions are uninformed, often coming from people who don't even have close to the kind of money necessary to truly purchase a high-ticket item. That level 83 paladin thinks 150,000 is far too much to pay for a Spectral Tiger? He'd only pay 75,000? Cool story, bro.
Do your research (if you can)
If you were going to go out and spend $50,000 on a car -- or heck, even if you were only going to spend $1,000 -- you'd want to do as much research as you can on your purchase beforehand, right? Buying a big-ticket item in game is really no different. You want to do your research first.
But this is easier said than done. A lot of expensive, luxury items are rare. It's hard to price a Reins of the Swift Spectral Tiger mount if your server hasn't seen one listed in a year and a half. And the Magic Rooster Egg? I'm not sure I've ever seen one of those listed on my server. It's not like you can just go to your Auction House and get a market price for this stuff -- you'd be lucky to see any of it on the Auction House at all.
Your first stop for research should be The Undermine Journal and AHSpy.com. You might not be able to get data for your realm specifically, and data for other realms may not be especially relevant to yours, but you need at least some information. A Christmas Day search of both reveals that on my server, Proudmoore (US), there's a Swift Spectral Tiger available for a whopping 750,000 gold Horde-side. On the Alliance side, one is available for 599,000 gold. Data from other servers shows that the cheapest auction currently listed is 395,000 gold.Your next stop? The official forums. Often, sellers of expensive goods will list their items there. And, just as often, buyers of expensive goods will list what they're actively seeking to pay for something.
Which of these is the right price? The answer is D, none of the above. Buying a big-ticket item off the Auction House is akin to buying a new car for whatever price the dealer throws up on the sticker. The act of listing something like this on the Auction House is nothing more than cheap advertising -- the seller's way of letting you know that he's got the item for sale, even when he's not around to bark it in trade chat.
Buying and selling expensive items is almost always done through private negotiation. The most important reason is the AH's 5% fee -- on an item like the Swift Spectral Tiger, the Auction House cut can easily be in the tens of thousands of gold. It's like a tax on the lazy.
The listed price on the Auction House should be nothing more than the starting point of the negotiation. The seller of that Horde-side Spectral Tiger would be thrilled if you dropped 750k on the Auction House. But he's only going to get 712,500 gold out of the sale if you do and would just as soon sell it to you at the same price.
Your guess is as good as theirs
If you've made the decision to seriously barter for a luxury item, you need to figure out a few different numbers in your head. The first number you should come up with is the most you'd be willing to pay for the item. In the case of the Swift Spectral Tiger above, you might decide that number to be 712,500 gold -- "worth it at any price." Alternatively, you might decide that number to be 250,000 gold.
With luxury goods available in low quantities, there's no one right answer. Previous sale prices and Auction House listings are merely suggestions. That specific buyer and seller are long gone, and so are the circumstances that led to that sale.
The simple fact that you're in the market for the item gives you a strong angle with which to negotiate -- not many others can afford to drop the kind of money you're looking to drop. Your competition is largely non-existent. Your offer of 250,000 gold may be the only serious offer the seller will get that week.
Starting the negotiation process
Of course, you should never begin your negotiation with your bottom-line figure -- that's the number you want to end negotiations with (if you can't get it even cheaper). Your most powerful move will always be your first move, so it's important to get it right.
Your goal with your first offer isn't necessarily to insult the seller. Offering them next to nothing for what you both know is pretty valuable is a waste of everyone's time. He's probably gotten lowball, non-serious offers before, and he might not even respond to yours if he doesn't think you're serious. And that's the real goal -- to open up negotiations and get him to counter.
Negotiate from multiple angles
So, you've made your first attempt to buy an item and it fell flat. You tried to get that fancy mount for cheap, and now the seller is upset with you. Your next move? Wait a bit, create a new level 1 alt, and try again.
Negotiating from a number of different characters has its benefits. Your seller often has no way of knowing whether or not the different characters approaching him with offers belong to different players. And if two different characters are offering him similar amounts -- "I don't think that mount is worth 750,000, but I'll pay you 200,000 for it" -- it reinforces a perception that the price of 200,000 is a much more realistic price. It also sets you up nicely to follow up with a higher offer on your main -- say, 300,000 -- that looks far better than it otherwise would in light of the lower offers your alts have been making.
But while the seller has no idea how many buyers he's dealing with, you always know you're dealing with the same seller. If his best offer in one negotiation is 500,000 gold, you know that's the worst you can do in the next negotiation. And if he was willing to take 500,000 last time, maybe his best price is 450,000 this time? Or even 400,000?
Is this the most honest way to approach negotiations? No, probably not. But remember, any top-tier seller is probably shuffling high-value goods among his different alts trying to get the same type of advantage over buyers. There's nothing in the rule book that says players have to lay all their cards out on the table.
You can shop both factions
Let's say that you've absolutely got your heart set on a Spectral Tiger mount and that you're willing to buy it at just about any price. And let's say that the seller on Proudmoore's Horde side -- the one asking 750k -- isn't willing to budge at all. You're not necessarily stuck paying that price.
Why? Because there's another Spectral Tiger listed for sale on the Alliance side, and it's listed for far less. Normally, I don't like dealing with the neutral Auction House because of its higher 15% cut, but for big-ticket items such as these, a shrewd negotiator can use the neutral Auction House to their advantage.
Play the two sellers against each other, even if the two sellers don't know you're doing it. If your Horde-side seller isn't willing to come down, see how cheaply you can buy the mount on Alliance-side. Remember, you're going to have to pay at least 15% more (unless the seller is interested in playing some risky cross-server arbitrage). But in many cases, that can still be the better deal.
Maximize your profits with more advice from Gold Capped. Do you have questions about selling, reselling, and building your financial empire on the Auction House? Fox and Basil are taking your questions at fox@wowinsider.com and basil@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
superwotter Dec 26th 2011 10:36PM
Great article, but the best part was your Pawn Stars meme. I lost my mind and laughed for about an hour.
Sharky-Sharky Dec 26th 2011 11:42PM
If by "about an hour" you mean "about 36 minutes." that is unless you have a time machine. Or you somehow KNEW you would still be laughing for about 24 more minutes after you posted that. :)
OrloChavez Dec 27th 2011 3:46PM
Since he plainly stated that he lost his mind, it's safe to assume his grasp of time is just a wee bit off.
Sbao Dec 27th 2011 12:13AM
Definitely want to check out this thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3797710612
Unofficial buy/sell TCG + other rare stuff thread.
Can find people on other servers interested in transferring to you for a fee on top of the mount cost, or you can xfer over with vial of sands etc etc.
Not as good as the old wow TCG forums but snot bad either. At least get a general idea of the "market" prices.
Scard Dec 27th 2011 12:42AM
This article really peaked my interest as I have recently (since 4.3 dropped) gotten to a position where I can look at items like this with more than a wishful heart. Looking through some of the TCG/rare items forums, such as the one linked by Sbao, often times prices are listed as a certain amount of gold or X "vials." Such as: WTS Magic Rooster Egg 300k or 11 Vials. What vials are they referring to? Vial of the Sands? Why would they use that as a currency instead of using gold?
Amanda A. Dec 27th 2011 3:04AM
@Scard-- I think the Vials as pricing is because there's a relatively low cap on the amount of gold you can transfer with you (if they're transferring just to get the rare item) but not the value of material goods. Vials of the Sands have a rather high fixed value-- the vendor mats alone cost enough that you're not going to lose your invested money due to market fluctuations, as opposed to an item like the Guardian Cub, which can-- and do-- fluctuate quite a bit. So if you're wanting to take more gold with you than is normally allowed in a server transfer, buying up (or crafting) Vials and re-selling them after is a pretty safe way to do so.
Abbadon Dec 27th 2011 3:05AM
@ Scard
Vials and mechano hogs have a pretty static cost to manufacture. While the items generally sell for more than that cost, they have a minimum value that pretty much everyone can understand and agree upon.
When it comes to those willing to do server transfers, they can bring the high dollar mount (or item) over easily, but will likely get hit with the gold cap limit when they server transfer back! This is why they're willing to take certain items in trade, because they can server transfer with the items and then sell them on their original server.
shatnerstorm2 Dec 27th 2011 12:19AM
I don't really get this.
Generally, if you've gotten to a point where you can plop down such an obscene amount of gold for something like the Swift Spectral Tiger, chances are you don't need an article telling you how to buy it, because you never would've gotten to that point in the first place if you weren't economically savvy in this game.
Meanwhile, the rest of us are still debating whether it's worth it to plop down 8-12k for those Valor boots or bracers, which, from this article's point of view, is "chump change".
Pardon me for being blunt, but...I really don't see the point of this article other than reminding us that there are people way better at making gold than most of us will ever be.
michael.l.latimer Dec 27th 2011 12:31AM
Articles like this can serve as a motivating tool for those who haven't gotten into the AH game to try their hand at it. Having something to work toward can make working the AH feel like less of a grind. I know that the Swift Spectral Tiger was the reason I tried to get gold capped in the first place.
Scard Dec 27th 2011 12:35AM
I think one of the points of the article is that you can't really create a set price on items like this. If you are in a position to buy an item like this, congratulations. You are officially the "1%" of WoW. Another point of the article is don't listen to the "99%" because they don't really have a clue what the hell they are talking about.
Luke Dec 27th 2011 1:00AM
Nine times out of ten, whether it's Fox or Basil, Gold Capped has an article dedicated to helping those less successful auctioneers step up their game. Consistently this article is well written, by both of these gentlemen and it rarely excludes Warcraft's "middle class".
You may take offense to this particular article, but look at it from that perspective. I'd also point out that there are authors on this site that consistently write articles aimed at progression raiders, and by that I mean articles that have absolutely no value to anyone that isn't in a top end, hard core progression guild. This makes me feel, I'm sure, something similar to what you're feeling when you read this article, you see, as I'm a casual raider. And they write those articles assuming that their entire audience raids like they do. Which means I rarely, if ever, read those authors anymore because they ARE detached from their audience.
So my point is, this is just one article, take a deep breath and come back next time. Or peruse some older articles in the Gold Capped series, I guarantee it would be worth your time.
Luke Dec 27th 2011 1:04AM
Nine times out of ten, whether it's Fox or Basil, Gold Capped has an article dedicated to helping those less successful auctioneers step up their game. Consistently this article is well written, by both of these gentlemen and it rarely excludes Warcraft's "middle class".
You may take offense to this particular article, but look at it from that perspective. I'd also point out that there are authors on this site that consistently write articles aimed at progression raiders, and by that I mean articles that have absolutely no value to anyone that isn't in a top end, hard core progression guild. This makes me feel, I'm sure, something similar to what you're feeling when you read this article, you see, as I'm a casual raider. And they write those articles assuming that their entire audience raids like they do. Which means I rarely, if ever, read those authors anymore because they ARE detached from their audience.
So my point is, this is just one article, take a deep breath and come back next time. Or peruse some older articles in the Gold Capped series, I guarantee it would be worth your time.
Luke Dec 27th 2011 1:05AM
Also, they need to fix the darn comment system already.
Cambro Dec 27th 2011 1:06AM
One way to think of it is there are people that are better at making gold than you are. Another way to think of it is there are people who invest their time and resources in the game differently from you. Gold really doesn't grow on trees, if you're going to be a serious gold earner, you have to invest some time researching, go through some trial and error to see what works, and yes, spend a little time grinding gold so you have some funds to start with. :)
That said, it's fair to say this article and many articles in Gold-Capped aren't intended for the people that don't have 12k gold to their name, which is totally fine. I don't read the druid blog because I don't have a druid and no interest. So I'm not going to make a post over there complaining that it has nothing to do with me, when I'm not the intended audience anyway.
Nadia Dec 27th 2011 12:46AM
This article makes me want to only shop at the Auction House from now on.
The 15% cut isn't for laziness, it's to ensure you aren't being deceived as a matter course in the process of any sale using the trade window between two characters.
This lack of integrity for something that isn't even tangible in the non-virtual world may be a common practice, but it's definitely not something to be proud of.
Cambro Dec 27th 2011 1:17AM
I don't see how you're getting to this conclusion. The faction auction houses take a 5% cut, the neutral auction house takes a 15% cut. In one sense it's a way of Blizzard siphoning off some of the gold from players to have a better control on the game economy. In another sense it's mirroring real-world auction practice, except in the real world, the auction house cut pays for the auction house itself.
I don't think you really want to post something on the neutral auction house and wait for someone to buy it. Best case scenario, one of the tycoons will see it and that's you cross-faction advertising, assuming they're even checking the neutral AH at all. Plus you'll lose a chunk in the listing fee.
Posting on your own auction house is much more practical. You still lose the listing fee every time it doesn't sell, but you're advertising to a much broader player base. The laziness factor is when someone actually buys it at the price you list it for. I wouldn't even consider posting it on the AH as "lazy", but a more productive use of your time. Do you really want to bark it in Trade for 12 hours, or would you rather bark it for an hour during peak player time and then post it for people to find while you go do something else in game or out of game?
As Fox points out, both parties will get the best deal by direct-dealing. The seller doesn't lose the listing fee or the 5% AH cut, and because of that, the buyer can negotiate down from what the seller would otherwise list it at.
Nadia Dec 27th 2011 11:11AM
I see what you mean by your comments, and you explain your points well. However, my comment wasn't really about the auction house. I'll clarify, because on re-read what I said was slightly vague.
I was talking about the practice Mr. VanAllen referenced of using alts to misrepresent yourself while direct-dealing.
The fact that people do this is what makes me want to use the auction house despite the fees and cuts. The fact that it's a common practice is going to make me extremely cautious of advertising in trade chat (or responding to ads in trade chat), and likely to use the auction house in the future.
TYKECHANDLER Dec 27th 2011 2:09AM
so, at risk of sounding uninformed/lazy/etc, how in the bejesus does one accumulate such vast wealth in WoW? i have been playing for years, and the most gold i've ever had at any point on any toon is like 5k. how do i make more money?
Amanda A. Dec 27th 2011 3:15AM
In my experience, the most reliable way to make gold once you have a solid bit to invest with is through professions. Which professions depend on your server; I'm active in inscription, enchanting, and jewelcrafting, and occasionally post some tailored gear (Vicious and transmog.) Right now JC gives me the bulk of my profits due to so many people getting new gear (enchanting -should- be doing about as well, but isn't for some reason.) Inscription has the highest profit margin, but the glyphs sell at a slow trickle. On other servers, JC is a wash because the market is flooded.
If you're starting from nothing, go with double gathering. I've also made surprisingly good gold soloing BC and vanilla dungeons, even before transmog. I think I was getting between 100 and 150g in cash, gray drops, and useless BoEs per run when I was doing Magisters' Terrace for Shattered Sun rep, and pretty greens can bring in a pretty copper. And if you have a tank, I know of a guy who farms H Pit of Saron for Battered Hilts. (The trick is to only kill trash, no bosses; you can reset the instance and all the trash will be there to kill again.) The drop rate is miserably low, but it can sell for 10k+ these days.
Amanda A. Dec 27th 2011 3:19AM
Erm, that should read 'useless BoPs.