@Kyle That's the issue tho. I really hate to make this comment but it really is "Blizz catering to the casuals." Now I'm by no way am an elitist nor do I hate casuals as I see myself as a somewhat casual player but the statement is true for this arguement. There was a post a little while back talking about how Epic items arent really epic anymore and they aren't. Like you said, you can face roll your way to 378 gear. and then when you get enough valor, you can just buy 397. I understand that Blizzard wanted more people to get into raids and see endgame content, but with the induction of the raid finder which is tuned for the casuals, they no longer really need to hand out gear like this so I'm wondering if they might make some epics epic again. It feels a little cheap being able to just buy all your gear over time. As long as the gear from RF is enough to get you into the actual raid, I would have no prob with Raid Finder being the highest ilvl loot I can obtain and let the raiders have the best gear. They deserve it.