It's not that it being easy is a bad thing, it's the getting high level items with relatively no work that is. I agree that I would not want to do a repeat of the beginning of Cata with the long que times for an hour long wipe, but what's the point of playing if you just get handed gear. Personally, I think what Blizz should do is have the Challenge modes the hard mode and the heroic just tuned to max level, adding another tier to the system. And keep Challenge Mode out of the LFD. If you want to do it, form the group to do it.

I agree with you.

The only dungeons I have enjoyed this expansion are the three new ones.
Because they are fun and quick--and easy!

Wiping constantly and taking two hours to maybe clear a dungeon is NOT fun. At the beginning of Cataclysm my guild could not do a heroic. We would wipe for three hours straight and finally give up out of exhaustion. We had more trouble in a damn dungeon than we did in Ulduar or ICC. How is that supposed to be fun?

This caused us to lose several people because it killed the fun for them so they quit the game. It was depressing and demoralizing and killed everyone's confidence so much that we are only now starting to raid again.

No, we aren't the greatest players, but I think there is something to be said for easier content that is more accessible. I guarantee there are more people like me and my guild playing WoW than there are excellent raiders that clear hard modes.

@Zodiac: I disagree with you. Farming those badges is a lot of work. Patch 4.1 dropped before I managed to get my first Cata piece of Valor gear, and that was without having a job at the time. Did it feel good when I got it? A little, maybe. Mostly, I just realized how much longer it was going to take me to finish what I *could* of the set and it made me want to give up.

LFR is just as bad. If I hadn't promised someone that I'd have a full tier set before I saw him again, I wouldn't be running it at all because having my token go, yet again, to the guy who already has it in regular mode makes me want to scream. Frustration isn't fun, and neither is grinding. But I find the annoying feeling if watching loot you rightfully earned go to someone who doesn't need it even more so.

Raiding, with friends, is fun. I've done it all of twice because I work retail and have no set schedule. Getting your loot is fun. Nobody finds being excluded from the boys club fun.

I agree all those things aren't fun, but there is nothing that I finish in the game that I feel is an "achievement". Think part of this is our fast food give it to me now society anything that takes time or hard work and getting beat down and to be overcome is "elitist".

You do make good points Luotian and I'm not wholly disagreeing with you in my comment. I'm not saying do away with the ease of heroics because, like you said it is nice to be able sit down and do a few quick runs in an hour. What I don't agree with is the ease of epics coming in with the ease of the dungeon. That's why I proposed the extra tier of difficulty for dungeons. Like raids having LFR

sry part of my comment got cut off for some reason:

Like raids having LFR

what the hell -_- whatever, basically I'm mostly agreeing with you, just add another tier of difficulty for those wanting it

If they added a tougher version of dungeons to mirror LFR/Raids, it would not be through the queue system. Like raids, you would need to pre-form and run out to the dungeon in question.

The moment you throw random players together is the moment the entire "challenging content" dynamic falls apart.

The next question becomes, would enough players engage this content to make it worth the extra development time? While I think more players would participate in these difficult dungeons than in Normal raids, I'm not sure it would be enough to justify the development time. Balancing content is nothing to sneeze at.

Side note, the comment system eats < and > characters. To get them to display, you need to type "&lt;" and "&gt;" minus quotes. The letters stand for "less than" and "greater than" if you need help remembering the code.

Thank you loop. I didn't know that. You basically said what I wanted to tho.