Raid Finder loot rules changing in patch 4.3.2
by Mathew McCurley 
Jan 5th 2012 at 4:00PM
Coming up in patch 4.3.2, it will no longer be possible to win two of the same item from the same boss. New loot rules coming so quickly seems to be indicative of Blizzard's position on the Raid Finder and its rules -- fluidity is a good thing. With the Raid Finder, more people are seeing raid content then ever, and these players need a different set of rules and a varied approach opposed to classic raiding. As time goes on, you'll be sure to see more tuning to the Raid Finder rules. Hit the jump for the full post.
Zarhym says Raid Finder loot rules will change in 4.3.2
We know this information. The item designers have plenty of spreadsheets too. If you're saying creating said spreadsheet takes an equivalent amount of time as coding a system in the game whereby item distribution accounts for the spec you're fulfilling in a dungeon, you're wrong.
Quote:
If you are DPSing you get the need bonus on (your) DPS gear. Tanks on tank gear. Healers on healer gear. A little common sense with things like bears and spriests on their slightly different needs and all of a sudden the loot issues where everyone needs everything are all fixed.
Then a little common sense when there are two of an item, you treat it as any guild would, you roll and the top two get it. Not treat each piece separately.
It should have been completely obvious that everyone would need on everything they could regardless of whether they need it as your getting 20G for that shiny new weapon is much better for you than the person stuck with an i353 weapon getting a much hoped for upgrade because you will never see them again.
Blizzard fixed frost orbs from being needable soon after LFD launched. They fixed needing on BoEs in 5 mans. Why on earth didn't they fix LFR loot when it was glaringly obvious that the current LFR loot tags would not be sufficient?
New loot systems must be so depressing for GC and crew. Every time a new one comes out they must be so hopeful that their customers will all be pulling together. I wonder if they have a shrink on call each time a new one launches when they get reminded, yet again, about simple game theory, and the fact that in a group of strangers each person will do what is best for them.
If you are DPSing you get the need bonus on (your) DPS gear. Tanks on tank gear. Healers on healer gear. A little common sense with things like bears and spriests on their slightly different needs and all of a sudden the loot issues where everyone needs everything are all fixed.
Then a little common sense when there are two of an item, you treat it as any guild would, you roll and the top two get it. Not treat each piece separately.
It should have been completely obvious that everyone would need on everything they could regardless of whether they need it as your getting 20G for that shiny new weapon is much better for you than the person stuck with an i353 weapon getting a much hoped for upgrade because you will never see them again.
Blizzard fixed frost orbs from being needable soon after LFD launched. They fixed needing on BoEs in 5 mans. Why on earth didn't they fix LFR loot when it was glaringly obvious that the current LFR loot tags would not be sufficient?
New loot systems must be so depressing for GC and crew. Every time a new one comes out they must be so hopeful that their customers will all be pulling together. I wonder if they have a shrink on call each time a new one launches when they get reminded, yet again, about simple game theory, and the fact that in a group of strangers each person will do what is best for them.
We're not that naive. We knew from the start of designing the Raid Finder system that we'd need to build a smarter loot distribution system to regulate fair play. It was also really important to us to get Raid Finder working and implemented with the Dragon Soul raid. We had to be realists about it.
The loot system will be improved in upcoming updates -- including in patch 4.3.2, where it'll no longer be possible to win two of the same item for a single boss kill. But we're really happy with the implementation of Raid Finder and feel it's a great new feature for the game, and one we'll continue refining over time.
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Patrick Jan 5th 2012 4:09PM
And yet 10Ms loot system is still broken, and will remain to be so.
kingoomieiii Jan 5th 2012 4:24PM
Don't mind me, just passing Gloves of Liquid Smoke and Rathrak to the disenchanter for the fourth time.
Pyromelter Jan 5th 2012 4:32PM
Repeating myself for the billionth time:
The first MMO game that creates a "smart" loot system where the dungeon drops only items that the classes can use, and would potentially be upgrades, will completely dominate the market.
GW2 might have that solution btw.
loop_not_defined Jan 5th 2012 5:02PM
Whatever game does implement smart looting will have to dramatically increase their content output to keep players busy.
Not really sure what smart loot has to do with LFR loot rules, though. Items almost never go to waste with 25 people, especially since all people present are there for loot. Not always so with Normal/Heroic raids.
loop_not_defined Jan 5th 2012 5:03PM
Nevermind the second paragraph, I'm an idiot. Forgot the context of the post you were responding to.
Pyromelter Jan 5th 2012 5:51PM
Kind of to back up my own point, doesn't everyone agree the goodie bags from low-level dungeons work out really well? (when you're upgrading a non-boa slot that is)
HDPriest Jan 5th 2012 6:16PM
Lol no! It keeps giving my baby Balance Druid Agi gear.
Pyromelter Jan 5th 2012 7:04PM
I'm sorry loop, I just disagree. Less randomness in dungeon/raid loot makes things better. For example:
-Badges of justice in the BC to help people fill in the slots they would get bad RNG for...
-...led into the emblem system in Wrath which became very popular...
-...which has led into the point system in Cataclysm, which is one of the really great things that blizzard has done in this expansion
-Goodie bags from lowbie dungeons (as mentioned above)
-Pvp has exactly zero RNG when it comes to loot, and pvp is intensely popular in wow.
apologies for the GW2 reference above, it was non-sequitor and very few people probably know what I meant. WoW has enough examples on it's own to support my hypothesis.
I think it's fine to keep at least some RNG for things like weapons and trinkets, so long as there are non-RNG ways to get upgrades but not-top gear at those slots, and that is another thing blizzard has done well at with cataclysm. Implementing a "goodie-bag" type reward system for finishing a raid or a portion of a raid would be a great way to remove some RNG, reward players, and also motivated players to try to finish a raid or portion of it. I think this is also something blizz got right with rewarding valor points after completion of dragon soul wings, versus individual bosses.
GhostWhoWalks Jan 5th 2012 7:18PM
I'm gonna go with Pyro here and add that the less RNG a game has in its rewards system, the better. People want to play a game because they enjoy it, not because they like running a treadmill that might or might not have the reward they want at the end of their workout. Giving us specific rewards that we can work for and know will be waiting for us at the end of the road is more motivation to play, not less. More RNG just means more frustration.
Kakume Jan 5th 2012 7:52PM
See, as a player facing a boss, sure, randomness feels bad.
But randomness has a flipside, and it's this: maybe you'll get lucky.
That's a powerful attraction. And less random also has a flipside: it's a grind.
It feels bad when it doesn't go your way, but the anticipation that maybe this time the loot is yours, that's one of the most effective things to keep us coming back.
loop_not_defined Jan 5th 2012 9:27PM
Having played during almost all of Vanilla, the move to guaranteed loot mixed with RNG loot was a godsend for me. Having said that...
Comparing full guaranteed to full RNG is misguided, considering those are not the only two options available to developers (as has been the case since BC). Really though, it hasn't changed much since Wrath. All Cataclysm did is streamline an already existing system. If anything, less gear has been available via currency during Cataclysm than during Wrath, even with the latest patch (all five pieces of both T9 and T10 were available for purchase...something that has not been true for any of Cata's Tiers).
Comparing PVE to PVP is also rather misguided, considering the two experiences are vastly different. For example, in order to experience a new PVE fight, players must wait for new content patches. In order to experience a new PVP fight, players must simply queue. While gear is certainly a part of PVP incentives, it doesn't play nearly as much of a role in it. It doesn't have to.
REDMJOEL Jan 5th 2012 10:58PM
Look up skinner box on Wikipedia some time.
Pyromelter Jan 6th 2012 12:01AM
The upside to completely guaranteed loot is blizzard can gate gearing to any time frame they want. That's where I compare it to pvp, there is a set rate at which you gear up, it takes x amount of weeks to get full current pvp gear. This will extend replayability for high end guilds that gear up fast, while giving an incentive to slower paced raiders to try to finish raid wings. Just my theory of course.
Sinthar Jan 6th 2012 8:50AM
reguarding the loop vs pyro debate here, I think it is obvious any smart loot system will abrogate one of Blizzards major design/principle. That you grind grind and grind again to get anywhere. This more than anything else led me to leave the game, as it became work. So there is some room to say smarter loot could be beneficial to retain some subs, but it is a balancing act to balance people quitting from boredom (due to finishing relevant content) or quitting from tiring of the never ending grind.
Unowitz Jan 6th 2012 9:09AM
First off, there is nothing wrong with less randomness in the drops.
The idea that it will make content obsolete too fast is true...but then that's a good thing. It will force blizz to offer more content faster...instead of the 6 months of 3 troll dungeons.
If you still want some randomness, make the "smart" loots system only applicable to raids maybe and maybe make it detect class and not spec...so that you might still have some drops that are not upgrades for your raider's current spec. But at least the items would at least be usable and would give a chance for some off-spec upgrades.
The less DEing done in raids the better. There is nothing worse than having daggers drop in DS week after week, when your 10 man crew doesn't have a rogue.
Which brings us to another point, "Why are there dagger drops in DS??? When the legendary starter daggers are better and easier to get?"
sorry for the rant...i haven't had my coffee yet.
SamLowry Jan 7th 2012 9:33AM
"People want to play a game because they enjoy it, not because they like running a treadmill that might or might not have the reward they want at the end of their workout."
I complained on the official boards that all bosses (heroics included) need to drop tokens you could spend at a Boss Vendor to purchase the items you keep losing out on, but the no-life contingent told me to keep grinding the dungeon like everyone else has since the beginning of time until I eventually win it, even if the sun turns into a red giant and incinerates the Earth before that happens.
Yeah, sounds like fun.
hovediah Jan 5th 2012 4:10PM
LFD sends me into a realm of pissed off at least a several times a week. Seeing the http://www.wowhead.com/item=77191 aka Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps, is such a rarity in itself to drop, it hardly ever goes to a pure dps class. Just this last week myself, a fury warrior, 2 other arms warriors were the only pure melee dps that could use the weapon, a RESTO paladin won the item then left, not only was he RESTO, he was bad at it, and stayed either dc'd, dead or afk throughout several encounters. Something needs to be addressed or changed! Clearly the loot system is torched.
Necromann Jan 5th 2012 4:15PM
A Resto pally, he must have abandoned the light and gone to nature.
Kidding aside, I feel your pain when things like this happen. It sucks.
Wiedmaier Jan 5th 2012 4:16PM
Paladins have a resto tree noe too?
SINisterWyvern Jan 5th 2012 4:16PM
So how did a holy paladin get a role bonus on Gurth? Or are you just full of crap?