Ready Check: What makes raiding fun?

Ahh, it is a new year, and as is common during this time, we put aside a spot of our days in order to reflect upon the previous year. We do this to see where we went wrong, where we went right, what aspects we think we need to improve upon.
Video games, particularly MMOs, are not so different from people, and MMO players too must undergo this same reflection. In WoW especially, one thing stands out above all the rest: Raiding continues to be a failure.
Now, now, I am not apart of the camp which decries the dumbing down of content. In fact, I still laud the quality of WoW's raids that Blizzard is putting out, even if I think they are becoming a bit light on the size factor. I am instead speaking in terms of sheer numbers. Raiding has never been an aspect of WoW that a majority of the community participated in, despite its being where the largest amount of new content is seen throughout expansions. Even though raiding has grown more and more accessible over this past year, there are still more people who don't raid than do.
On the matter of accessibility
The Raid Finder, for what demerits some give it, has been a huge success and vastly increased the amount of people that are raiding. Not matter how or why it is that the playerbase is raiding, the simple fact that it is is a leap in the right direction. I would say that Cataclysm as an expansion has been wholly focused on problems of accessibility -- that is, allowing a broader audience of players to attain the capabilities they need in order to complete certain content. Yet I would contend that this is merely one of a multitude of factors that hinders raiding numbers.
Yes, the long-held stigma that raiding is hard, time-consuming, and only for those who can devote their entire lives into the game does need to be broken, but I feel it rather has at this point and we still aren't where we should be in terms of raiding numbers. As Blizzard moves forward into the new year with a new expansion coming in the not too distant future, it needs to look at the other facets of raiding that might be holding it back.
One of these aspects that I want to bring up is fun.

Fun is such an undefinable quality that something can posses -- worses it is often difficult to put into words. Idly tossing around a yo-yo can be fun despite that it's so basic, so simple. Baking an eight-course meal that requires hours of preparation and hard work can be fun even though it's difficult and time-consuming. Fun is such an amorphous trait that it's hard to say, "This is what needs to be done to make things fun."
However, this is exactly what needs to be done, because raiding should be fun and the players expect that. Therefore, we have to take a look at what has been fun in terms of past raiding so that we can hope to recreate it for the future.
The case of Karazhan
Whenever raiding is brought up, one of the first topics that enters the discussion is Karazhan. Everyone from that time period loved Kara; it was the epitome of a fun raid. The scenery, the bosses, the music, the design -- everything about the entire instance was absolutely perfect, yet there is little about the instance that would fit into the current raid design.
To start with, Karazhan was huge. I don't just mean that it had a large number of bosses, which it did, but the overall layout of the zone was simply enormous. Wiping on Shade of Aran or Netherspite or Opera meant a very lengthy run back for the raid that you simply don't see in today's raids.
In fact, I would say that most raiders would be annoyed by the length of the run back from a majority of the boss encounters in that instance, yet it never seemed to be an issue. Sure, people complained about Serpentshrine Cavern's run-back, which was horrendously long as well, but it really wasn't any worse than several of Karazhan's. It's strange how a problem from one instance can be absent in another despite their being entirely the same.
Regardless, I think that it is time for Blizzard to give up on Karazhan, as it were. Karazhan was magical; it was perfect. It was a flawless raid that simply cannot be replicated again. It wasn't the design of the raid so much as it was the timing, the atmosphere, everything. Karazhan was more than a raid and more than an instance; it was a mindset, a time period, a community perception to which we cannot get back. Yes, Karazhan was fun, but struggling till madness to recreate it isn't going to solve anything.
The case of Ulduar
The second raid that tops everyone's list is Ulduar. On a personal level, I simply don't understand the fascination that players have with the zone, nor do I get what it is about it that made it so fun for the wide majority. Perhaps it is my selective memory, but I recall the vast amount of complaining about Flame Leviathan, how buggy and utterly boring Vezax was until the hotfixes, and a multitude of other boss problems. I remember many complaints over Hodir, Mimiron, Yog, Vezax, and XT's needing to be retuned. Even the trash in Ulduar had to be nerfed because it was "too hard" for a wide number of people.
One perk that I have seen frequently mentioned was the execution of hard modes in Ulduar, which followed the model of doing things before or during the encounter instead of merely flipping a toggle. To that end, I have to side with Blizzard. It was more fun and more engaging to kill XT's heart or change the order in which you kill the Iron Council, but Blizzard was right in that this was an entirely unintuitive concept, not to mention that it didn't work for every boss.

I liked Ulduar, but I certainly didn't love it with the same fervor that many people seem to. Nothing against those who do, but it just wasn't it for me. I'm much more a Naxx fan, although I prefer the original over the remake, but isn't that always how it goes?
More input from more raiders
You might wonder, why bring this all up? And why only mention arguments against what is commonly thought of as fun? The reason is because I want to hear it from you. I can sit here all day and talk about what I think is fun, but I'm just one person. I want for the community to tell me what they think is fun.
I want more than "Ulduar, because it was awesome," though. I know lots of people think Ulduar is fun -- so now you have my groundwork against it. Counter it! Find another raid you liked instead! Tell me, what about raiding do you find fun?
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Raiding, Ready Check (Raiding)
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Crimpshrine Jan 7th 2012 7:06PM
Gotta admit Faction Champs was tuned too high for a long time. But that's a trick question because that encounter was both (a) the only fight involving A.I. and (b) the only fight requiring PvP skills and tons of CC *and* (c) hugely dependent on what random combination of enemy classes you faced. So it's not the best test of having some A.I. in boss fights because those other factors were really huge.
I'd love to see a more typical boss who would change his strategy in response to what the raid group does and how well it's fighting. I agree that Faction Champs was a pain in the rear, especially when you got a tough enemy composition.
omonubi Jan 7th 2012 3:57PM
In my guild, accessibility has never been an issue - we can always field a 10- or 25-man. The real difference between the "good times" of LK and the "hell" or Cata has been the rediculous DPS requirements. As a guild, we can't support running with anyone that has less than the "best" gear config, talents, and rotations. We thought we could gear our better players up enough to support the rest, but it hasn't happened and it sucks.
LFR is NOT the same as grouping up with your crew after a hard day at work. LFR allows those without the social / leadership skills necessary to forming good raid teams actually get into the end-game content on their own terms. However, it doesn't satisfy our needs to put together our own teams and tackle boss mechanics on our own terms. (And there can be a lot of angst, mean0ness, and foul play in an LFR as well.)
I feel that if regular raid DPS requirements were lowered 10-15% (and *nothing* else changed or nerfed), this would go along wayt to helping more casual raiding guilds get into the content, beat bosses, and enjoy what is arguable the most alluring part of the game. I'll wager that a lot of guilds have broken up, a a lot of players have left WoW, since Cata because of this barrier alone.
As for Heroic raids...I'm sorry, what are those again? (Leave them be for the best-of-the-best to tackle.)
Stilhelm Jan 7th 2012 3:08PM
The DPS requirements aren't that high in normal modes this expansion, except for the final bosses. The guild I'm in now had a rough start to Cata, but reformed a raid team around March and had all but Al'Akir down by the time FL was released. We walked into FL with several still using some 353 pieces, and in some cases even 346 blues, and were really close on Ragnaros pre-nerf, and killed him easily the next week after the nerd. We went into DS geared with FL and H FL gear, and went 8/8 in 2 or 3 weeks.
None of us had BiS gear, but all of us take some time to research our particular class and at least be competent. We even killed Ultraxion this week with a somewhat ragtag group of alts including a relatively clueless dps under 20k.
Just get in there and try it. If people don't want to put any effort into their raiding, then LFR is made just for them. For those that enjoy some reasonable challenge and look at learning their class and encounters as an interesting opportunity, normal modes are accessible and possible.
omonubi Jan 7th 2012 4:06PM
I totally agree w. you regarding un-motivated players. But let's define what that means. I'm describing folks that get 4-8 hours of casual play time on the weekends to grind valor (maybe) and then have 3-4 nights to raid 2-3 hours a night.
If the goal is to get more folks to raid (and LFR is *not* raiding - it's a glorified 5-man w. 25 players), then we need to examine why more folks aren't doing it. IMO and experience, based on taking a casual raiding guild from LK to Cata, DPS *is* the issue. The time requirement to get there is too high. Patch 4.3 helped a little, but not nearly enough in this regard. Lower the DPS requirements and you'll see a *lot* more players actually get the experience of working together in teams to beat difficult mechanics and take down bosses. And that's what FUN raiding is all about.
As for those of us with the talent, dedication, and experience, and believe these types of players aren't hard-core enough, you've still got Heroic/Hard raids to keep you busy.
Ozzard Jan 8th 2012 3:54AM
Bit late to the party here.
"Fun" is different for different people. I encourage anyone who's read this far to take a quick sidetrack to www.brainhex.com and take the survey to get your "gamer type" - it's short, it's interesting, it helps a research project (that a friend of mine runs) and it stimulates discussion. For example, I'm a Seeker-Socialiser according to BrainHex (and that seems pretty accurate).
I'm also an "anti-Conqueror". Repeated failures don't give me a greater high on a success. This means that the core design principle of raids - "make the bosses hard so that groups wipe lots before succeeding, it makes the final success sweeter" - actively puts me off raiding.
I'd be fascinated to run a survey that asked for BrainHex type, whether you raid at all, and if you do whether you prefer to run raids at LFR, normal or heroic difficulty. I suspect I could demonstrate some pretty strong correlations between raiding preferences and Conqueror score in BrainHex, though I've not yet done the experiment!
Tyler, I'd be particularly interested in your BrainHex type as an ex-world-top-10 raider.
Shalurion Jan 8th 2012 3:59PM
For me, there are a couple things I like about raiding. First, I like the challenge. I like it when a boss is hard (but not annoying), and the accompanying satisfaction of finally downing it after a lot of hard work and diligence. It gives me a great sense of accomplishment. Second, I like the group of people. This is one of the reasons why I moved to a 25 man raiding guild. Getting to hang out and do something cool with a bunch of people is just a treat. Third, I get this bizarre, intrinsic joy from raiding. It makes me feel like I'm a part of something big, that I'm contributing to my guild and helping everyone else succeed, and that I'm doing my part to down content, while also achieving personal improvement (in the form of gear and learning).
Fourth, I like fights that have inventive and creative mechanics, or throw a new twist on things. Like, I enjoy event fights (a la Gunship, defending Bronzebeard in Halls of Stone, running from the Lich King in Halls of Reflection, etc.) because they're not just a boss. I liked Baleroc because of the inventive use of healing and damage dealing. I really liked Rhyolith because you had to drive him. I liked Valithria Dreamwalker because it was the healers doing DPS. Basically, if a fight is unique and different, and is a break from the norm, then I like it. Fifth, I like raids that are pretty to look at. Ulduar was nice because it went through a wide variety of different scenes. Throne of the Four Winds was a definite treat for the eyes, with AWESOME music (I always was bouncing in my seat when we raided there). Meanwhile, blackwing descent and bastion of twilight were in cramped, dark, gloomy buildings with no cool views or pretty colors or anything like that. Very drab. Firelands actually ended up hurting my eyes from all the red, so I changed my map and castbar colors to blue and purple, to help prevent strain. Dragon Soul is okay; you go to different places, but most of them aren't exactly that pretty. Though I have yet to see blackhorn, spine or madness in person, so I don't know how those will work.
So that's how I feel. I could probably elaborate some more later.
ikutcher Jan 8th 2012 6:45PM
Karazhan wasn't fun for me.
At the end of Vanilla, our 40-man raid who had just barely scratched the surface of AQ40 began to break apart. It started with our GM quitting the game and leadership passing to an Officer (with myself as second-in-command). By the time it came round to raiding, our 40 man team was reduced to only 20 capable raiders, of which we had the class makeup of tanks and heals for only one raid. The result? 20 raiders rotating through a 10 man raid over a single week.
Progress was nigh impossible, we hit walls at Curator and then Shade where we spent a month wiping before the seams of the guild began to break. I ended up leaving after multiple arguments with the GM on how we could fix this problem. I joined another guild which was clearing Kara with three separate groups and pushing SSC (pre-nerfs). However that wasn't fun either cause I was playing with strangers, not guild-mates I'd been playing with for years.
Years later after Cata launched I took up the reins of a small 10 man raid in my guild. In 4.0 we managed 2/13H, in 4.2 we did 6/7H and as of now we are 8/8 and pushing our first heroic kills in DS. Am I having fun? Absolutely. I'm having the most fun raiding than I have ever had in 7 years of WoW.
The point is, fun is subjective. There's no technique or technology or style or anything that makes a raid fun. Fun is about playing with people you like accomplishing goals that are just a bit above your capability and fun is enjoying what it is that you do. It doesn't matter that Firelands was only 7 bosses and that once you did them in normal it was the exact same thing for the next 3 months. It was the fact that every week I was playing with people I enjoy playing with and accomplishing more than what we ever expected to do by patch end.