I was talking to some friends about raiding lockouts before we went into Baradin Hold, in part because Baradin Hold isn't merely locked out by the usual weekly system but also by whether or not your faction holds Tol Barad. This led us to discussing the old Zul'Gurub raid lockout, a three-day cycle, and that led us to consider other possible options. Algalon, a raid encounter that gave you exactly one hour per lockout to complete, also came up. I then told them I was shamelessly going to steal our discussion and use it as grist for a post, because that's what I do.
One of the things about raiding lockouts right now is that they're extremely predictable, and their commonality across the board means that they tend to cause content exhaustion near the end of a week. Everyone does everything they're likely to as close to the reset as possible, meaning that by the end of the week, there's nothing left. Even guilds like mine that raid on a three-day-a-week schedule can exhaust almost all current raiding well before mid-week if we get some lucky breaks. What if we had some variation?

One idea that occurred to me was based on the recent revitalization of the Darkmoon Faire, which offers content that is accessible for one week out of a month. What if there were a couple of raid bosses that were like that? They could be attached to the Faire or be entirely their own separate experiences, but the important thing would be for there to be raid content that was available once a month rather than once a week. You wouldn't want to put any BiS gear on that kind of raid, but one can easily imagine its being a raid encounter with a lot of potential for unconventional loot: pets, mounts, even cosmetic items. In a way, that kind of encounter is more likely to retain relevance into the future. Tune it up every time a new expansion launches, and people will keep running it indefinitely.
Another possibility is the timed raid. You can go with either the ZA timed run model or the Algalon model. You get extra rewards if you complete it within the timer, or even more extreme, the timer determines whether or not you even
can complete the encounter. With raid sizes being smaller (and as far as we know, staying that way), you could even design an entire two-encounter raid like Gruul's Lair with a two-hour timer, and let folks have at it.
There's no reason to limit ourselves, however. Another potential model for raid lockouts could be a daily reset. The current tier 11 raids give gear that's technically obsolete right now and not as powerful as drops from the Hour of Twilight heroic 5-mans. Imagine if they were added to Raid Finder on a daily reset. You wouldn't even need to change the encounters at all; simply allow people to farm those outdated raids for tier pieces and transmog weapons.
The real point is, the paradigm of a weekly reset isn't necessarily the only one and hasn't been even in
WoW's own history. Mixing in different resets seems like one way to give people more options in terms of what content to run, which is so far the successful model for
Cataclysm.

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Tags: looking-for-raid, raid, raid-finder, raid-locout, raiding, raiding-lockouts
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Prouty.dan Jan 9th 2012 1:49PM
I fully agree here. I used to love running our main group on 25m and then still be able to pull a few of the vets from that group into our 10m to help gear other guildies.
Sergel Jan 9th 2012 1:39PM
thank you guys =)
Minstrel Jan 9th 2012 1:52PM
The idea of having raids connected to events like the Darkmoon Faire that could offer "fun rewards" like mounts, pets and transmog gear is absolutely brilliant. Literally one of the best ideas I've ever heard related to WoW. These raids could be as hard as current tier normal modes or a tick lower (LFR-level), but just done for fun. And as you noted, mounts and transmog gear are timeless rewards...you don't "out-level" vanity items like you do gear necessary for stats.
clundgren Jan 9th 2012 1:55PM
Yeah, I love this idea too. Rossi should get a royalty if they implement it.
Vschrijen Jan 9th 2012 2:42PM
As long as raids are not going to be accesible for 2 hours at a set point per day I'm fine with it. I'd hate the idea of content only be accesible when I'm at work for example. It is like Blizzard customer service where they "aid" you in trading an item with guild member. But you only have 5 minutes at noon to do so. But when you read the mail when to trade it is long past bed time. And then never help you again with anything. It is furiating.
Chetti Jan 9th 2012 2:01PM
I agree that some kind of raid that happens as DMF time would be awesome. Put it in the raid finder, and have the 10/25 man versions. Reward possibilities are kind of endless. Mounts, transmog gear, something shiny for the current item level like trinkets or rings - something thats not tier yet could be a nice upgrade. LIke BH drops pvp things, I believe there is a possibility for a pve drop as well. I've only run it once, and only killed the newest boss. But I think its interesting having the lockout be determined by your faction's holding of tol barad and your usual weekly lock.
With a DMF raid, they could take the same approach to adding bosses. I'm not sure how many BH started with, I think it was 2, but I could be wrong. Then another was added in a patch later with current ilvl loot. I realize that it makes people not want to run the first bosses because of outdated loot, however with DMF that problem can be avoided. Say the first DMF raid is released with 2 bosses. Both could have a possibility of a mount, pets, shiny current item level trinket/ring/neck, DMF transmog tickets/tokens for use at the gear vendor at the faire. When the next patch drops with a new tier of stuff, the first 2 bosses could still drop everything except the shiny current tier thing. The new boss could have the updated ilvl shiny, as well as the other fun things. Killing the first 2 bosses would still be relevant because of mounts/pets/transmog stuff. They could even switch up the fun loot, add a pet and/or mount that is dmf raid only, drops off any boss.
As the tiers keep coming, new bosses get added, the loot shifts to where the current ilvl shiny is always on the newest boss.. yet the other stuff is possible from any boss. I realize that after a while there would be waaay too many bosses. For example, lets say an expansion has a total of 3 tiers of raiding (like cata). First DMF raid is released with 2 bosses, by the end of the expansion with its 2 additional tiers/bosses, the DMF raid would have 4 bosses. Thats not terrible, and totally doable within the week depending on difficulty. But in order to keep it current and expandable with a future expansion, at the rate of one boss to every raid patch, it'd get nuts. At that point, I think "retiring" a boss would be something neat to consider. Theoretically, when the new expansion gets released, the first 2 bosses could be "retired". Leaving just the last 2 from the previous, plus the new one with the current ilvl shiny. OR, it could be completely updated. New expansion, updated DMF raid with new bosses, but the same rate of change (new boss per raid tier).
Revynn Jan 9th 2012 2:04PM
- "You wouldn't want to put any BiS gear on that kind of raid, but one can easily imagine its being a raid encounter with a lot of potential for unconventional loot: pets, mounts, even cosmetic items. In a way, that kind of encounter is more likely to retain relevance into the future."
The fact that people still run MgT, H-UP, Sethekk Halls, Maly, Ony, OS3D and TK on a daily or weekly basis is a big testament to this. A fun, relatively easy, themed raid with very little loot but a bunch of mounts, minipets, transformation items or fun trinkets like the Voodoo gnomes from ZA or C'Thun's tentacle . . . Would be very cool.
sidhebane Jan 9th 2012 2:33PM
I'd kill for shorter lockouts on vanilla raids. One chance a week to get T2 just for looks? :(
DaSandman Jan 9th 2012 5:05PM
So agree - if people want to farm old OLD gear then let them!
DarkWalker Jan 9th 2012 2:38PM
What I really would want is a LFR-like scheme, where the player is never prevented from doing a raid just for fun.
Regarding raids with longer lock times, such as a month: please no. If it was actually fun, It would be beyond frustrating to know I would have to wait a full month before experiencing the raid again.
Making part of the loot only available once per month, though, would be OK.
As for different (smaller) lock times: IMHO, the previous tier raid should be doable 2-3 times per week, the raid two tiers earlier should have a daily lockout, and anything older should have no lock at all.
Also, I would love if the locks were somewhat more flexible. For example, if a player that didn't do the raid during one week could then do the raid twice the next week. The counter would need to be reset whenever a new raid tier was made available, though.
(BTW: unless I get invited to some really nice guild, my days of raiding normal/hard are over. With the LFR being easy on my scheduling - and thanks to the LFR not locking me out of the raid, so no need to change characters in order to experience it more than once in a week - all the hassle and frustration from doing normal or hard modes is just not worth any extra reward.)
SlimPickens42 Jan 9th 2012 2:56PM
Put all previous expansions' content on a daily or every other day lockout. With transmog people want the gear and there's no reason to keep those raid to a once weekly lockout.
Tj Jan 9th 2012 3:07PM
More raid lockouts ins't the answer, more raid content is. The thing I miss most about Wrath is the variety of one-off's. Got an hour or so to kill? Lets do EoE.... Or OS.... Or RS (had it been around long enough).... Or Ony.... Raids with one or two bosses and a moderate amount of trash. It is something fun to do, not really mandatory if you're doing progression raiding, and its something different.
Sure today we have raid finder, because nothing's more fun than doing the same raid a second time.
These one-off raids don't even need a compelling story. Back when I was a pencil and paper adventurer there were plenty of times we would "raid" a dungeon not because we wanted to save the world, but because there was a monster with a big bag of loot inside!
I know it costs money to have the art team come up with new stuff like this. However in all honesty, how time consuming is it to come up with a short tunnel leading to a larger room and with a boss based on a reused model? As for mechanics, you can't tell me there isn't a file somewhere full of scrapped bosses from various raids. You don't even need gear drops. Toss a mount in or an extra amount of valor or a large sum of gold (like 200-500g per raider) or the good old sack of gems in there.
SpoonDogSVT Jan 9th 2012 3:37PM
I would like to see a separate Heroic lockout again.
Our 25m progression is stalled, but our 10m progression is ready for Heroics. Since DS is (basically) linear, we can't do H10's because of the 25's (our guild runs 25's Tue/Wed then 10's the rest of the week).
Right now the only answer is to 'skip' a few weeks of 25s, but it's certainly not an ideal solution for guild cohesion.
Klausse Jan 9th 2012 3:51PM
Wasn't Blizzard recently testing the idea of resetting raids twice a week on the Korean realms? IIRC they decided not to implement it, but maybe it's an indication that Blizz is trying to think outside the one lockout, one week paradigm as well.
Klausse Jan 9th 2012 3:56PM
Yep - here is a forum post on it:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3424906947
Jyotai Jan 9th 2012 4:36PM
A lot of this could be solved by making a 'return to' version of -ALL- old raids and 5-mans.
Scale the 5-mans to whatever the top current 5-mans are, and scale the raids to the current difficulty of LFR.
- Give them 'JP/VP' rewards, but the same old loot (still handy for transmog).
Raise the VP cap (maybe 1.5x?), and add in more things buyable with JPs, such as putting some old transmog sets up for JP sale rather than 'darkmoon' sale, and mini-pets / mounts - redeem for gold, redeem for recipes, or even vendors that sell lowbie greens (again for transmog).
(Every city had "That guy" selling gray and white armor / weapons, change it to green armor / weapons, bought with JPs.)
Result would be people doing current content for its good gear, then rounding out the week with old content for JPs for the 'fun and transmog' loot.
But just having a version of all that old content that was challenging in a group, once again, would be a way to keep a lot of content going and give people more to do.
- The exact details of how to 'reward' doing it could be hammered out to whatever... the real goal would be bringing the content back again, to stave off the end-week boredom.
durandal Jan 9th 2012 4:52PM
I'm not opposed to having a weekly lock out for the current raids. Otherwise, one would burn through the little content even quicker.
For the older contents however, be it raids or heroics, I can't see any point in keeping the lock outs. I'm especially looking at you, BC heroic dungeons! It's just a huge pita if you want to grind rep for the BC factions, or if you're hunting for a special transmog item. There's already the "visited too may instances per hour" lock out, there's really no need to have another lock out on top of that.
abysmal Jan 9th 2012 5:17PM
I don't think daily raiding would improve the game experience. You do it once per week and look forward to being able to do it. For the challenge and/or to roll on the pieces you're after. More isn't necessarily better.
I imagine the LFR for all raids would be a god send for those that want to do older raids.
Aren't they doing some kind of scaled instance run next xpac? Hopefully they apply this to ALL raids as well and open up everything to the LFR. That way level 90's going into Sunwell can be scaled back to level 70, muuuhahahaha.
wow Jan 9th 2012 9:57PM
13 to 16 weeks, One Semester is what it should take to complete are raid, no more, no less.
In Firelands that would be about 10 weeks of 6 bosses down or 120 drops; which should allow everyone to get 12 pieces of gear.
But then there are the Raid subs to fill in on missing core team members. So, 13 to 16 weeks is good.
Currently our MWF team starts the raid on Wednesday and scrambles on Friday to finish the lower bosses to be ready for Rags on Monday. Would be great to be able to start on Monday and finish on Fridays.
Tashur Jan 9th 2012 9:40PM
>Even guilds like mine that raid on a three-day-a-week schedule can exhaust almost all current raiding well before mid-week if we get some lucky breaks. What if we had some variation?
You could try hard modes. They're quite different, and you can spend quite a lot of time enjoying a challenging encounter.