The etiquette of rolling on gear in groups

Most guilds use one or more various systems to make sure loot distribution is fair. Some employ a basic rule of civility; once you get gear in an a raid, it's polite to defer further drops to other guildmates. Others use complicated but effective point systems, assigning dropped gear a point value that members can bid against. No matter what the general system for rolling on gear, the foundation of the system is based on all group members' being part of a common team.
Pickup groups and Raid Finder groups possess no such commonality. The teams comprise random folks thrown together by Blizzard's behind-the-scenes group-building algorithms. Basic roles are filled, a few rules followed -- but basically anyone can get thrown together into a group.
Random groups rarely agree on loot etiquette before getting started. We all say we should agree on loot rules beforehand, but that rarely actually happens. Instead, most folks charge ahead into the dungeon operating under only a few basic assumptions about how loot will be divided. With that in mind, let's review the basic etiquette of rolling on gear in groups.
Blizzard's Rolling Tool: Use it
Blizzard's rolling tool has come a long, long way. At this point, the tool knows whether your class can use a piece of gear, and the tool allows you to roll need, greed, or disenchant. Just in case there's some horrible error, you can even trade gear among members of the instance for some time after the roll, unless it's been disenchanted, of course. (You only get the disenchant option if you have a disenchanter in the group.)
As a general rule, you should use the rolling tool exactly as it is. Don't try and modify it with freaky rules and regulations. Just click need, greed, or disenchant, and move on with your life.
The tool does have a few challenges. We'll discuss them in just a second, but I want to underline: Don't do anything but use the tool as intended without discussing it with the group first. In the attempt to be a good person regarding gear, you could very easily just screw yourself out of loot. No sense in trying to alter the rules if the group doesn't agree to it beforehand.
Consideration in low-level dungeons
One of the places the rolling tool falls a bit short is in lower-level dungeons. A few natural situation illustrate why. First, groups are comprised of people leveling up through the game, and most characters won't yet be settled into their final role. Along the way, tanks and healers especially will be trying to maintain two sets of gear: one for DPS and leveling, one for completing dungeons. Second, some group members will be trying to switch roles, collecting DPS gear while still tanking the instance you're currently in.
While that dynamic shouldn't give a person priority in a need role, it's fair to say that's a good reason not to disenchant an item that would otherwise see use. Most players agree that disenchanting is cool, but it's better for a piece of gear to actually get used. Breaking a useful drop into a shard is kind of a putz move.
For this reason, check in with the group members to see if anyone might otherwise use gear before you start rolling disenchant. This should only take a second or three and can save some heartache for someone who's trying to leave DPS behind to get into the tanking game.
The Raid Finder: No exception
Blizzard just recently changed the Raid Finder loot system to refine who can roll on the gear and to prevent folks from winning multiples of the same item in a single roll. These changes fix an etiquette issue that had been lingering in Raid Finder: People roll need on everything they can use, always, no matter what.
I'd like to be polite and say, "Just roll until you win one item" and "Maybe help out your fellow gamer." The problem with this approach is that you're in a Raid Finder with 24 other people, and they probably won't be nearly so considerate.
Use a little judgment if you have lucky dice. If you've won three new pieces of gear, it's OK to start passing on rolls. But just because you won one sidegrade, don't just stop rolling. Blizzard created an awesome system in Raid Finder; if the designers want you to only win one item in a run, they'll change the system again.
Off-spec and off-type armor
Once you're cruising around the raiding content, you'll never wear cloth caster gear if you could be wearing leather or plate. That's not true in the lower levels. At level 20, good stats are good stats, and the exact class of armor be damned.
What do you do if you're an elemental shaman who could roll on that cloth that just dropped? If there's no competition in the group for the piece, roll on it and have a good day. If you'd be yanking it from a priest or mage, though, then skip it.
Yes, I know caster leather, mail, and plate is a little rare in the lower levels. But the armor specializations (which give you bonuses for wearing the right gear) are in the game for a reason: to encourage you to wear the right class gear.
The world won't break asunder just because a balance druid is rocking a cloth hat. At the same time, there's no reason to start picking fights in lower levels by yoinking other classes's gear. This awkward phase passes as soon as you get into later content, and it's just not worth the fight.
Say congratulations!
My final tip is my pet preference and peeve: If someone wins gear -- especially if they beat your roll to win it -- then congratulate them. It's simple good sportmanship.
Filed under: WoW Rookie






Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
eel5pe Jan 12th 2012 5:54PM
You know what's the absolute worst? The Dungeons and Raid forums are completely filled with people whining about LFR loot. My hugely representative sample shows that 17 of the 40 threads that are on the front page of the forum are complaining about LFR loot (and 2 of them asking that the legendary be craftable in LFR difficulty). This is normally one of the more helpful forums in the cesspool that is the official WoW forums, but many real threads asking for help are choked off in the thorns of LFR loot complaints.
1. Blizzard knows the LFR loot distribution isn't optimal
2. No, there is not an easy solution to this issue
Winwinchindin Jan 12th 2012 6:05PM
I play an enhance shaman. During the LFR, I had won 2 pieces for my off-spec resto.
Looking to see if the other healers needed them, two other high-rolling healers were given their healing pieces.
I just can't seem to not feel guilty on ninja'ing..
kristen.l.stevens Jan 12th 2012 6:06PM
"My final tip is my pet preference and peeve: If someone wins gear -- especially if they beat your roll to win it -- then congratulate them. It's simple good sportmanship."
It is really difficult, as a healer or tank in 5-mans, to congratulate someone that just rolled need against you on spirit or avoidance stat gear, respectively. In fact, I feel that you should only congratulate them if they asked and you relented, or if you greeded. For them to roll against you shows that they care so little about their fellow gamer.
I haven't used LFR yet, but I've heard the priority system helps a lot with that. I really wish there were such a thing for 5-mans... my healers have all gone through phases of low gear (especially bracers and belts in 4.1) because there is so much competition.
Back on topic though, I'm really proud of myself when I can just grit my teeth and finish the instance. If they catch me on a bad day, I'm proud if all I do is type "*sigh*". Congratulating them would be too much, I'm afraid.
Xues Jan 12th 2012 6:44PM
Lets be honest here: there is no etiquette in LFR. People will roll need on anything they can, even if they already have it. I have no problem rolling for OS on the tokens, but I've seen people with 397 items roll on the exact same item. It has to do with the fact that most of the people in LFR will never see the people they are in a group with. Anonymity has a lot to do with how people will act.
emberdione Jan 12th 2012 6:54PM
I am not going to congratulate the mage who just rolled on a +spirit piece of gear, taking it away from my healer, because "it's better than what he is wearing and you can reforge half the spirit away".
Not a chance in Firelands.
I am certainly not going to congratulate the dps who rolls and wins a piece of tank gear when I am the one tanking and I have to put up with their crap for the whole instance either.
I hope they choke on the gear and their video card blows up.
Scuac Jan 13th 2012 12:44AM
Exactly. I just got my priest finally to 81 and started running cata dungeons. On last boss of Trone of Tides the spirit offhand drops. The mage rolls need and wins, and leaves instantly. Didn't have time to finish typing my insult.
novitas Jan 12th 2012 7:48PM
You've completely forgotten about one other pet peeve of most people when it comes to LFR and the loot.
There are players that often need on gear that they already have just to keep it for their OS or to trade other players for the gear that they ACTUALLY want, effectively holding the piece they won as ransom. Even if the piece they want doesn't drop, they'll just keep it for themselves to sell it off for gold. I find this incredibly annoying since these people are usually geared and are taking away gear that other people can actually use. There seriously should be some sort of mechanic which prohibits players from rolling on gear/tier pieces they already have unless they're playing as the spec that doesn't have that specific piece.
Amanda A. Jan 13th 2012 12:03AM
There is one minor problem with that.
I run LFR as a DPS, but my main spec is supposed to be tank; I suffer terrible FPS in parts of LFR, and don't want to risk missing a taunt because my system just gave me 20 seconds of one frame per 5 seconds. On top of that, my DPS tier 13 set bonuses are -terrible-. So I've been using what tokens I win on my tank tier. This means, of course, that the set I'm running in has none of the tier I've won. I would still be eligible to win those pieces -again,- because I used them on my other spec. At the same time, someone
Amanda A. Jan 13th 2012 12:08AM
Bah.
...someone who spent their tokens on their main spec would get passed over until they got their offspec into the raid.
Flip it around, and I can never get LFR gear in my tank set due to technical issues.
Eladonra Jan 13th 2012 2:12PM
I've encountered the "holding gear for ransom" thing a lot lately. I don't inspect others; I don't even having detailed loot rolls set to display. I'll never know if someone rolled on something that really wasn't an upgrade simply because I don't WANT to know. But having a jerk spamming the raid trying to trade something drives me nuts.
Jerk: "WTT trinket for shoulders or helm"
Reasonable person: "Why would I trade an item I want and won for something I didn't even roll on?"
Jerk: "You HAVE to trade. Otherwise this item is going to be de'd."
Raid: "Why did you roll on something you don't need?"
Jerk: "So I could trade it for something I do, you stupid morons."
Langis Langley Jan 12th 2012 7:46PM
Roll Need on anything you want. Roll Greed on anything else.
That's the "etiquette." And to hell with anyone who dislikes it or would impose weirdo "house rules" on the system.
Gray this out, nublets.
Eccentrica Jan 13th 2012 5:02PM
With pleasure oh person totally void of social skills.
Scott Jan 12th 2012 8:03PM
What would be truly awesome in the loot awareness system is for loot to know if it is an upgrade and not allowing "need" if it is below currently equipped item. It really sucks to see some butthead rocking full 378 gear run an older instance and need on 346 gear just to d/e or because he "need"s cash. If it is possible for the system to detect if you have unique items, like rings or trinkets equipped so you can't equip two of the same item then it should be able to stop douchebags from affecting others game play by rolling need on items they obviously don't need.
murmaiderxx Jan 12th 2012 8:22PM
This has always been an issue as far as I've been playing the game. Especially since dual spec has been effectively been in place people are going to do that, they work just as hard to get loot as everyone else, and I can understand where someone may be geared for a spec they're in, but does it exempt them from getting some for another spec?
Common courtesy would be to announce that, "Hey, I am geared as (SPEC), but I will be rolling on (SPEC) for everyone to know in group." Or to express interest in a piece if no one else is going to roll on it. That would be my reference for 5-man only.
LFR is a whole new montser of its own, and they have made changes to who can roll on what, but there will be times when you get into a group and someone will roll on something totally unneccesary. An example would be the last run I did with a geared holy paladin from normal/heroic (wep) DS. They rolled on the healing mace at the end where they already had the normal weapon Madness and had the heroic gear mace. They also won LFR shoulders and a trinket earlier in the run, all not upgrades for the person. Now, they have the availability to the items just like everyone else, but that doesn't make it a difference to them. For all I know they could have been running with someone else in the raid and rolling for them also.
My point in my rant is simply that there have been enough restrictions placed in matters for people to run and roll on necessary items, I am not a fan of more restrictions for people in different specs who can use an item or even in the case of the person who already was geared and may have been rolling to help out a friend. It's the nature of the beast, there will always be another run if you are so inclined to work to earn it.
murmaiderxx Jan 12th 2012 8:27PM
Also I feel bad for the people who just run the LFR and have not been a part of an actual raid group, you think this is bad missing out of gear with people you know, try running with a group in which paladin gear (why is it always paladins?) drops every week, but no paladins showed up for the run!? gear d/e'd and no courtesy other than to be kept in the bank for later enchants. (probably for said paladin!)
Caylynn Jan 12th 2012 8:28PM
Except in LFR you are always running against different people every week. And if every geared person continues to roll "need" on items that they *can* roll need on, even if they don't actually really "need" them, then some people, who have bad luck, are never, ever going to get geared.
I've had incredibly bad luck in LFR so far. And I've seen plenty of people, with much better geared, winning "need" rolls over me, when they clearly didn't need the item. While most of my guild mates have already upgraded their weapons and trinkets through LFR, I'm still using Firelands normal stuff, and DMC: Volcano as one of my trinkets.
I can only hope that we get back to regular raid runs of normal DS now that university exams and the holidays are over. At least with a guild raid group, even if I have bad luck with rolls, eventually I'll be the only one rolling as everyone else gets geared up. That won't ever happen with LFR, sadly.
ahsanali Jan 13th 2012 2:01AM
Our guild hosts lfr on our server. We raid ten man and are 8/8 normal but also have a number of social players who aren't raiders, some who are very new to MMOs. So what we do is we get everyone who wants to go together and if we're a few short of 25 we pick them up from trade.
Going in with full 25 let's our raiders carry everyone, coach them and just chill and have fun. We also usually add a guildie or two a week from the pugs.
The loot rules? Since its a premise we can do master looter and we do MS /OS rolls. Once you win something, someone who has not won anything will have priority on a MS roll.
It's fun, no one feels cheated and we did both wings two days ago with maybe 4 deaths in total. Try to do lfr premades on your realm, they're far less aggravating.
Ben4jammin Jan 12th 2012 9:18PM
I guess I got lucky...first LFR some guy rolls and wins on 2 of the same gear. So he announces "roll for the other one I can't wear both". Me and someone else rolled and I won it. Only piece I got that run.
I guess I am a loot anti-ninja. I don't need gear so bad that I am willing to be a butt to get it. In any dung/raid after I win a piece or two, I stop rolling.
After reading so many comments about people who don't care about others, just wanted to share a story of someone actually being decent
Koelkastmagneet Jan 13th 2012 2:45AM
Glad I am not the only one in this post that has some form of decency on rolls.
In dungeons I roll if an upgrade. If it is for an OS, then I ask first if a MS needs it, if not if I can roll on it for OS.
In LFR I only roll on tier pieces I still need and on upgrades. If I got it I just greed/DE.
The one time I made a mistake and one a token for a tier piece I already had, I traded it away. Just doesn't feel right to sell it. Unlike some other guy that announced at the end that he made a mistake and who would like to buy it. Let's just say more than half of the people there asked why he wouldn't just trade it if it was a mistake. Felt good to see more decent people in that run.
Melfina Jan 13th 2012 3:52AM
My rules of thumb lootwise have always been...
1. you get first dibs on the loot that relates to the job you are currently doing. In other words, I never roll need on tank or healing gear in a 5 man till I've seen the tank/healer roll greed.
2. spirit/int stuff is first dibs to healers, hit/int stuff is first dibs to caster dps, and if neither hit nor spirit is present, it's fair game to all casters. (I apply this more as a general guideline till Cat content, due to the change in spirit that came with this expansion). And yes, my main's a disc priest and I've had to argue with more than one caster dps about a piece without both spirit and hit.
3. Don't be a greedy bastard.
4. Share the luck and remember what goes around, comes around. My first time in LFR my main won the roll on both shoulder tokens. I looked up the next highest roll and handed one set over. That toon continues to have ridiculous luck in LFR to this day.
5. Upgrades first. If a piece is a sidegrade, I either greed or watch the other rolls to make sure I'm not taking it away from someone who needs it. This works far better in guild groups, but I do try to do the same in LFR.