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1-12-2012 @ 11:16AM
Sometimes things in the game seem backwards. If I was itemizing stats on loot, items that drop in raids, where you need more hit, would have more hit. Items that you can get from running dungeons, where you need less hit, would have less hit. /shrug
1-12-2012 @ 11:27AM
Valor items are not items you get from dungeons. They are raid items to fill in gaps in your armor where you haven't won 397 loot yet. The fact that you can get VP from heroics is just because Blizz understands that you should be able to fill in those gaps on your own time, and not wait for a raid group just to fill those holes.So, VP gear having hit has nothing to do with dungeons, they are raid items that you can buy thru running multiple dungeons, and are itemized to fit the raid environment.
1-12-2012 @ 11:42AM
@PuntableThis shows another issue related to what you and I were exchanging posts about the other day. Because running 5-mans gives you access to current level raiding gear through VP, there are weird balancing problems with those dungeons and this gear. If 5-mans didn't award VP and instead awarded Hero Points which would allow you to buy gear equal to the best available 5-man drops, this issue would be less prevalent. Instead of buying 397 gear which is over-itemized for the content you're doing, you could buy 378 gear to fill in the slots that you have been unlucky with in the current tier. This would prevent you from having to deal with raid-itemized gear from 5-mans.
1-12-2012 @ 11:43AM
But this way you would not get hit capped by running heroics, which are meant to get you ready for raids.
1-12-2012 @ 11:55AM
Bear in mind the answers you got yesterday though. It's not perfect for your specific case, that's true - but it still does the job (gearing you up for dungeons) and balances a number of other considerations at the same time.You know the way it seems like every day someone is in here with an idea on how to improve the loot system by making it less random? Putting the +hit gear on the valor vendor does exactly that. If they put two generic dps/healer items on a loot table instead of one dps and one healer item, it reduces the risk of being unlucky with drops and having to shard the healer gear AGAIN when all the dps are still waiting patiently for their drop.But since those guys are still going to need to reach 17% hit, that stat has to come from somewhere, and valor gear is a great source. The tradeoff? What you found - you're not perfectly itemised.The conversation ratholed pretty badly yesterday, IMO. This is nothing to do with how one "should" or "shouldn't" use the gear. But when a given source of gear has multiple uses, there's got to be a tradeoff. When you're reaching the point that you overgear the content you're running anyway, maybe it's okay that the itemisation starts to skew toward one of the other uses of that gear?
1-12-2012 @ 11:56AM
@VerneThat's not necessarily true. In addition to the gear one gets from the vendor there is also the gear that drops in the various instances and from rep. Through a combination of these three things, plus gemming, plus reforging it would be pretty easy to get to a point where one could hit-cap from doing 5-mans.
1-12-2012 @ 12:06PM
We are back to the point that if you do not raid, then Valor gear is your end-goal in the game. I just wish they would keep that fact in mind when itemizing the stats.It's not a problem with melee, because raid hit cap for melee is 8% and spell hit cap is 17%. They could lower the spell hit cap and I don't think anyone would complain.
1-12-2012 @ 12:14PM
@Narayana - it's absolutely possible to juggle this any which way to suit you, or me, or someone else, but the tradeoff remains.They handled this a different way in Wrath. Anyone remember items like this...http://www.wowhead.com/item=50357152 was a LOT of hit at that time. It got a lot of criticism because those of us who had been raiding previous tiers were dripping in +hit and didn't need any more. But it did one thing very well indeed - it was a great boost for a dps caster who was only gearing up to raid as ICC was already out.In the current model, the +hit is spread around far more items, so the love/hate for any one item isn't as severe, but of course the tradeoff is that you can't itemise your gear perfectly for content that it outgears.So sure, if Verne's requirement was the only one that Blizzard had to handle, there are certainly other ways to do this. But there are plenty of other requirements already enumerated in this thread, and I've no doubt there are a bunch more that Blizzard have in mind that we haven't thought of.
1-12-2012 @ 12:26PM
But it's not like there is a grand reason for Valor to be the end game gear for non-raiders. What would be so wrong with a system wherein your end game gear- the best stuff that's available to the mode of play that you choose- came to you directly through that mode of play and not through a point grind? What if, instead of queuing to run dungeons that drop nothing of consequence for you in an effort to cap out on points, you queue up to run dungeons to get the gear in those dungeons?The first 2-3 weeks of running the HoT 5-mans was an absolute blast for me personally. I greatly enjoy the anticipation of seeing whether the boss will drop the item that I want. By this point, though, all of that fun has pretty much dissipated because I have been able to buy equivalent level gear at light speed with Justice Points and a few piece of better gear with Valor Points. I no longer care if Benedictus drops my helm, because I have a 397 helm. Wouldn't it be more fun (and maybe it isn't- maybe it's just me) if we slowly acquired points to let us buy 378 gear and got back to actually caring about the instance we're running?The secondary side effect of this is that they could optimize this 378 gear to not be itemized for raids. Instead of getting loads of hit, we could get a smattering here and there. Instead of getting trinkets that are only good over a long fight, we could get trinkets that have a lesser effect but a shorter ramp up time or cool down.As long as Valor Points are serving this dual purpose- to smooth out raid gear progression and to serve as end game 5-man gear- there's always going to be this issue where someone is put off.
1-12-2012 @ 12:46PM
I agree with Narayana. It seems odd that the drops from HoT dungeons were obsolete the day 4.3 went live. There is better gear available for most slots... you just have to farm the VP to buy it.On the other hand, farming all those VP gives you something to do. Otherwise most players would have no reason to do dungeons anymore.
1-12-2012 @ 3:31PM
Lowering the spell hit-cap would be much more work that it's worth. Every raiding caster (and then some) would suddenly reforge their extra hit into their best stat (usually haste). Now, casters have more of a secondary stat while they didn't actually lose anything. Casters universally are going to do more damage, and now must be universally nerfed otherwise they pull too far ahead of melee. It's better to just leave it alone.
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