Blue Posts and Other WoW News: The endgame is king, and face the blues in rated BGs

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Blue posts
Quote:
I agree. Unfortunately Blizz decided that endgame was king when they made the leveling process take no time at all.
I agree. Unfortunately Blizz decided that endgame was king when they made the leveling process take no time at all.
That wasn't arbitrary decision, nor did we arrive at it lightly. There are more than a few factors which played into it, but I'll cover one of the really big ones:
People often play MMOs to play alongside their friends and share adventures. That social experience is important, and it can feel a bit lonely when your friends and most of the rest of the playing population is cavorting around at the level cap while you're just starting out.
It's true that some players will create new characters to level up alongside their pals (or invite a new player using the Recruit A Friend service), but all too often a new player will end up on a realm and be expected to level up with relatively little assistance before they can join their friends on their 'end game' adventures. There are now also three expansions worth of new leveling content to experience in addition to the classic quest line which takes players from 1-60. We wanted to make it easier for players to come into the game and enjoy the leveling process, but also join their friends who are already playing on a more reasonable time frame. Another reason that questing seems faster is that we've learned a lot of lessons about quest and zone design flow since the old days - you might notice this when transitioning from Azeroth to Outland now, for example.
The leveling experience is important to us, which is part of the reason we revamped Azeroth for Cataclysm. It can be fun, rich and engaging without taking as much time as it used to. Still, at the end of the day, end game gets so much attention because that's where players spend the majority of their time. We do understand that not everyone enjoys the same types of game play, and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.
Quote:
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.
There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world.
That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists.
Greetings Combatants of the Glorious Alliance and the Merciless Horde!
It is my great honor to invite you all to test your skills, steel, and sorcery against Blizzard employees such as myself (watch the face though, I got an image to maintain).
So if a bit of You vs. Blue action sounds like your idea of a good time come on down to the 4.3.2 PTRs this Tuesday, January 17th. We'll be queuing for Rated Battlegrounds from 3pm-6pm PST, you'll know it's us from our [Blizzard Horde] & [Blizzard Alliance] guild names.
Hope to see you on the fields of battle!
It is my great honor to invite you all to test your skills, steel, and sorcery against Blizzard employees such as myself (watch the face though, I got an image to maintain).
So if a bit of You vs. Blue action sounds like your idea of a good time come on down to the 4.3.2 PTRs this Tuesday, January 17th. We'll be queuing for Rated Battlegrounds from 3pm-6pm PST, you'll know it's us from our [Blizzard Horde] & [Blizzard Alliance] guild names.
Hope to see you on the fields of battle!
There are advantages and disadvantages to linear questlines.
The advantages tend to flow from the effort to build epic stories for players to be a part of. When you put the player into a linear questline, you can more easily incorporate dramatic elements like foreshadowing, plot twists, and a satisfying climax that you know the player is going to be there for.
The disadvantages have been well-covered: If you're isolated into a personal story too much, you lose the sense of being in an open world that is filled with alternative potential adventures. It's more difficult to hop around and partake of the glories of several different zones at the same time, and harder to join up with friends whenever you like. Group quests become less-desirable.
As Dave Kosak and others have said before, we think we may have gone a bit too linear with Cataclysm. That informs one of our big philosophies for Mists of Pandaria: Give players more flexibility to play how they want to. We think that the solution may be to have linear story arcs, but have more of them in each zone, rather than making the whole zone one big story with a beginning, middle, and end. In addition to multiple linear quest lines, there will be smaller (and in some cases, one-off) quest hubs, and some of those hubs may be well off the beaten path.
To make that work, we've got to tweak the orientation of quest achievements. Rather than "vacuum up every single quest in the zone", we're aiming for achievements that reward completing the main story arcs. All in all, players should feel less like their time spent playing in a zone is exactly the same as every other player.
The advantages tend to flow from the effort to build epic stories for players to be a part of. When you put the player into a linear questline, you can more easily incorporate dramatic elements like foreshadowing, plot twists, and a satisfying climax that you know the player is going to be there for.
The disadvantages have been well-covered: If you're isolated into a personal story too much, you lose the sense of being in an open world that is filled with alternative potential adventures. It's more difficult to hop around and partake of the glories of several different zones at the same time, and harder to join up with friends whenever you like. Group quests become less-desirable.
As Dave Kosak and others have said before, we think we may have gone a bit too linear with Cataclysm. That informs one of our big philosophies for Mists of Pandaria: Give players more flexibility to play how they want to. We think that the solution may be to have linear story arcs, but have more of them in each zone, rather than making the whole zone one big story with a beginning, middle, and end. In addition to multiple linear quest lines, there will be smaller (and in some cases, one-off) quest hubs, and some of those hubs may be well off the beaten path.
To make that work, we've got to tweak the orientation of quest achievements. Rather than "vacuum up every single quest in the zone", we're aiming for achievements that reward completing the main story arcs. All in all, players should feel less like their time spent playing in a zone is exactly the same as every other player.
WoW news from other sites
- MMO-Champion Fangs of the Father Complete, 4.3.2 PTR Notes Update, Blue Posts, The Daily Blink
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- Raid Rx: Start ranking on healing without even trying
- How to transition from PvE into PvP
- Is choosing a server becoming obsolete?
- WoW Insider Weekly News Update for Jan. 13, 2012
- The Light and How to Swing It: What happened to encounters that were interesting to tank?
- The Daily Quest: A history lesson, among other things
- Blizzard's battle in South Korea over the real money auction house
- WoW Moviewatch: Exodar Disco
- The Queue: The serviceman and the "guide dog"
- Around Azeroth: Where the carnies dump the bodies
- Phat Loot Phriday: Experimental Specimen Slicer
- Breakfast Topic: Have you ever caused loot drama?
- Bungie opposes SOPA, mostly because it 'sucks'
- Lamar Smith removes DNS blocking from SOPA
- GOG.com joins SOPA opposition
Filed under: Today in WoW






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ice Jan 13th 2012 10:51PM
Well how should I put reply to the first one..
Theres few problems with the speed of leveling 1-60
One of the obvious ones and what has been said since start of cata. Outleveling zones.
You could go to zone, do all he quests in there till you get achievement for it and be outleveling the zone so that some mobs are gree, some grey. Thats on big zones usually.
Now on worst case scenario, if you want to do that zone for story etc and do only few instances in between you would outlevel not only the current zone but the next one as well! It just feels absurd to me.
I mean who starting player wouldnt want to step into pvp or dungeons while leveling?
I think they should slow down 1-60 but keep 60-85 at the rate its now.
For new players 60-85 might be reasonable speed as the expansions are just leveling zones and BC and wotlk dont have those "ultimate end goals". Also keeps us vets much more at peace.
Speaking of WOTLK leveling. WHY is Utgarde keep the ONLY random dungeon you get from 68 to 75..? I mean by the time you get more the whole random pool even skips Azjol nerub after 1 level if I remember correctly?! Sure you can seperate queue for AN but not many do it so the wait would take hours.
Ehem, rant over.
kaminari Jan 13th 2012 11:23PM
I agree, even tho you can stay and finish the zone after you out-leveled it, it feel less satisfying to me to do that, not to mention you get extra exp and thus you start out-leveling the next zone already.
a way to solve this would be a new heirloom/item to decrease exp. you gain that way you can could take your time and enjoy leveling more, and people trying to catch up can do so in a reasonable time
Rubicon Jan 13th 2012 11:47PM
I think most new players are being recruited by friends, and more than anything they want to get to endgame as fast as possible so they can be elite raiders like their buddies. It would certainly take knowing someone playing the game to convince me to buy 4 games (5 within a year). With that in mind, I am ok with fast leveling. If you are that interested in the quests (unlikely after the 25th kill quest) then you can just slow your xp by killing greys. If you want to catch your friends, drop those quest and get to the next highest xp zone available. At least that's what I would tell my friend to do (especially since he/she would hopefully be getting 300% quest xp anyway.) He/She joined to kill Deathwing.
detailbear Jan 14th 2012 1:12AM
I've found logging out outside of Inns and cities helps. Avoiding the 2X bonus helps slow the levelling quite a bit. Not being in a guild helps, too.
I've also decided that some of my toons will just have to skip some zones and I'll catch them on another toon.
Judge Jan 14th 2012 1:43AM
I'm just shocked I got a few blue responses for my post on the WoW forums, and was kind of happy to see those posts brought up here on wowinsider as well because I am a big fan the site. The last post Daxxarri made on the thread was in reply to someone saying there is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world, his comment was;
"That was an error we made with the design of Cataclysm, but getting players invested in the world again is something we're interested in addressing with Mists."
I'm shocked that Blizzard has recognized finally that the WoW age of instaqueing for everything may not have been the best option. Interested to see how they change it for MoP.
Jack Mynock Jan 14th 2012 2:41AM
In the two wweks between The Shattering and the launch of Cataclysm, I leveled a dwarf shaman to 80. You will not outlevel a zone if you don't use heirloooms, if you don't ahve bonus xp from guild perks, and if you don't run more than a handful of dungeons. The idea is that you can do quest after quest and level to 60 without ever having to go to the hero's call board or step foot in a dungeon if you don't want to. It works if you do it that way. Obviously, gaining extra experience from heirlooms, battlegrounds, or dungeons is going to throw off that balance.
If you want to see the story from start to finish, don't run dungeons unrelated to that story. Dungeons are there for variety. Same with battlegrounds. This complaint about dungeon experience causing you to outlevel content baffles me. It's really no different than stopping mid-questline, going to another zone and questing there for awhile, then bitching when you get back to the first zone and the quests are green.
Pyromelter Jan 14th 2012 5:17AM
Jack is right, and blizzard has it right about focusing on the end-game.
There are basically two ways to go in an MMO regarding the leveling process:
You can make it long, arduous, and painful, and focus most of your resources under the level cap
or
You can make it streamlined with an average amount of gameplay to make it seem like it flows nicely, make it so that about 100-200 hours is needed to hit level cap depending on perks and playstyle. And then focus most of your resources on end-game activities.
I think it's fairly well established at this point that the overwhelming majority of MMO players prefer the second scenario to the first, and I think that is a good thing. At level cap you're the hero going around fighting the big bad bosses that are threatening your realm, and you are the knight going into the castle to save the day. In the end that's why we play RPG's right, to storm the castle and defeat the boss?
The thing that blizzard does so well is give us a reason to storm that castle, and then they also give us other ways to adventure outside of the castle. Granted, in cataclysm, they messed up pretty badly compared to BC and Wrath, but let's hope they rectify it. The first step will be to create a carbon copy of Wintergrasp, both in terms of the PvP as well as top level ore, herbs, and elemental shard farming. I read once that blizzard has 2 teams for expansions, and one will do one expansion while the second team works on the next, which means the WotLK team will be doing MoP - this is a good sign, as they did so much right, I am optimistic they will make strides to get back some of what they lost in cataclysm.
NetherLands Jan 14th 2012 6:02AM
Good to see they FINALLY adress the 'out-Greying' issue Cataclysm and it's inescapable linear hand-hold questing created for the first part of the game. Too bad they have yet to adress the issue of reducing replayablity even more by eliminating the Class and Profession Quests.
Little too late though, people on the PTR already complained about it, the moment Cata hit people complained about it, and in fact the levelling curve was screwy during WotLK already but at least you weren't forced to do trite Quests so you could 'avoid' out-Greying.
They made matters worse by doling out XP for noding, if you want to keep up with the nodes you actually encounter in the zones your level indicates, you'll level even faster leading to even more outgreying etc. And you might as well forget about actually using your Crafting Professions.
The question is wether you want to tailor the Questing experience to people that actually enjoy questing and weave their own story, in short, play RPG's, or just railroad people to the current level-cap to grind currency to feel like a schmuck.
By it's very definitation heroes are rare, not bloating out the normal citizens as it is in top-heavy designs, I do not feel like a hero with level-cap toons as bosses etc. are just currency bags to be grinded to be on par, with the result of your endevours being basically useless when the next Patch hits. The 'dragons' you slay will just respawn next week or even faster, while heroic deeds require finallity or they become meaningless.
In short:
they eliminated having choices for those that actually like playing RPG's, to pander to those that will ALWAYS complaint that levelling takes too long, is too repetitive (though of course doing the same end-game crap over and over and over and over again is perfectly entertaining - must be the purples and the illusion of 'being a hero'ic hamster) and in fact will only be truly happy if they could create instant cap-toons that can immediately take part in the 'real game' of the purple-fed hamsterwheel.
Just as they tailor the end-cap experience to those that like running in wheels in purples to feel big, they should tailor the levelling experience to those that actually like levelling, and sell XP/Level Ups in an Item Shop that accepts both Justice Points and cash. That way those that want to rush to end-game ASAP can do so, without affecting the game for others as is now the case.
Ice Jan 14th 2012 7:06AM
I think its bit stretch to say that "well you dont outlevel zones if you are not in guild, dont do pvp or dungeons or have any other xp boosts". heirlooms and RFA are ofc something thats ok but I mean come on.
Starting player surely wants to do dungeons and pvp while leveling and I think 1-60 times doing dungeons or pvp is bit too extreme and starting players are most of the time guilded too.
Spellotape Jan 14th 2012 7:31AM
I don't know, does it matter that a quest is grey if the story is more important to you? Or would it suck that much for you to go back and complete the chain once you were at max. level if you had an aversion to doing grey quests while levelling?
As for UK ... I haven't been there lately, but I'm guessing the quest-givers that were once outside are now within the instance. People gravitate towards dungeons where it's easy to pick up a quest and earn a large amount of XP from it - for the UK questing experience of old, all you had to do was talk to a guy outside of the instance (for Alliance) OR someone who was already inside (if Horde).
There were no pre-requisites for these quests so it makes sense people would queue for them. I would also guess it's likely more people continually hit Northrend than level past it - meaning while you're 74, ten more people will hit 68 and maybe only a couple of them go onwards to run AN and so forth.
Noyou Jan 14th 2012 9:39AM
I agree with Jack and Pyro, If you don't want to "outlevel" the content then you need to actively do something about it. Just like if you have played through outland and northrend and think flying makes you level too quickly. Then don't fly. I think Blizzard does a good job of giving us choices. Unfortunately for some of us, that choice is taken away from us in MoP and we will be forced to not fly until max level. The only time I feel like I level too fast is when I am thinking about doing BG's as I level. But that is my choice to keep questing and not PvP at that moment. Like it is also my decision to run with heirlooms. The 10% guild experience is hardly going to push anyone to the level cap much faster.
Luotian Jan 14th 2012 11:05AM
I think you are assuming much by saying new players WANT to do dungeons. I know lots that wouldn't for a long time. My dad, who has been playing since mid-vanilla, still won't run dungeons with me because so many players have treated him so badly. The last friend I got to join me in WoW wouldn't run a dungeon after the first one until level 60 because she spent so mich of that first one lost and horribly overwhelmed. Everyone running dungeons treats it like all those thete have done it a million times, with no direction offered to those who might not. It's terrible and scary for many players, and even if they know anout dungeon finder I've yet to see a new character use it alone willingly.
Jack Mynock Jan 14th 2012 1:10PM
There is no 'out-greying' issue unless you're using heirlooms and running a bunch of dungeons.
I think I figured it out though. These complainers must all be worgen. The Worgen leveling experience is legitimately screwed up. You come out of Gilneas ~lvl 13 which puts the first Darkshore quests at green right off the bat. You pretty much have to skip most of Darkshore to fix it.
Fletcher Jan 13th 2012 11:41PM
I'm very happy to read that one about the linearity of the questing experience - since the problem (that questing in Cata is too linear) is one I've believed for a while, and their solutions seem ideal. Huzzah for that!
Al Jan 14th 2012 1:02AM
Just bear in mind, they also said they learnt from "forcing" everyone to do the torture quests in Wrath. Their big solution for that was rail-roading us into playing sidekick for Indiana Jones, Rambo and Jack Bauer.
Jack Mynock Jan 14th 2012 2:45AM
We definitely did not play sidekick to Jack Bauer. IIRC, we rescued him, then went solo to kill the Bishop and defuse the bomb. JB didn't do anything.
Pyromelter Jan 14th 2012 5:18AM
The modular questing of Wrath IMO was the best combination of story-driven questing without forcing you to do quests on rails. (Sorry if it seems like I'm a Wrath fanboy ^_^)
Llowe Jan 14th 2012 6:29AM
I posted that topic! The thread ("Please don't make all questing linear & gated") is worth checking out on the MoP forum. Of course, the replies were much better than my OP and the Blue was way more than I had hoped for, haha.
paul.morales91 Jan 13th 2012 11:52PM
The problem with linear questlines is that, while they're fun the first time through, the second and third times can be EXTREMELY boring if you already know whats going to happen.
Here's what I'm thinking: Certain players can only get certain quest chains that only give them a single part of the whole picture. Rewards and experience are the same, and everyone gets to witness the beginning and end of the story, but whatever comes in the middle is either based on class, race, or random chance. This way the player gets the general story, but is missing a lot of the details, so will be motivated to do the quest chain again.
SR Jan 14th 2012 1:34AM
RNG quests=probably the worst way to present your hard-spent development time to your users. "Omg, I'm on my 10th 90 toon and I've yet to see the path B of zone Z!" would start popping up.
As for class/race/blarg specific quests, they also won't do, since they've not only shown their lack of interest in class quests, but there would be too much effort put into making separate quests for all those classes, with very little return on investment.
Here's an idea: Let's make the linear quest lines mandatory only ONCE on your main (and not for alts), where it would offer account-wide enchants/rewards/etc, and leave the rest like they did in Northrend. Because, frankly, I enjoyed my Northrend leveling more than Cata leveling when it became my 5th fucking toon to try to get my Therazane rep up.
Hell, even Sons of Hodir quests were available much earlier than Therazane ones, and you only had to do SoH ONCE. Therazane? Nope. You gotta quest out the entire fucking Deepholm zone AND wear that ass-ugly tabard for the next dozens of randoms.
/rant