Drama Mamas: Should the raid schedule change for the GL's girlfriend?
by Robin Torres 
Jan 16th 2012 at 9:00AM
The above video has nothing to do with this week's letter except that a girlfriend is involved. Did you know Rick Springfield also played Zac on the original Battlestar Galactica? No, that has nothing to do with either WoW or the drama at hand, either. And now I (Robin) have revealed my guilty Rick Springfield crush. Moving on.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I recently transferred to a new server with friends to make a new 10 man raiding guild after the guild leaders persistence to get us all here. Everyone in the guild is getting along great with everyone else, and everyone is friends with everyone else. Everyone agreed on a raid schedule ahead of time to make us be competitive but yet casual and fun with other guilds on the server. It seemed as if nothing could go wrong and for about a month and a half, nothing has. Of course, all good things come to pass.
The guild leader's girlfriend recently announced a change in her schedule and as such, will not show up on one of our agreed days until an hour after it's supposed to start. Her solution to this is that we all change the raid days or times to accommodate her so she doesn't have to be replaced. Everyone in the guild agreed upon these days and times and can not change the times for her. This made her angry and she can not see how 9 other people can not change their schedule to fit her. The other officer and I asked the guild leader to possibly replace her or to maybe alternate her and the other dps we have, but he refused the idea. I can understand he is in a predicament between his girlfriend and the guild, but I feel this isn't fair to other people in the guild who can not change their schedules but want to raid.
As a result, 7 of our 10 raiders want to leave and form a new guild unless he replaces his girlfriend. I feel a lot of loyalty to the guild leader since he has done a lot for me, but I also am close to the other people that want to leave. I am torn between my loyalty to the guild leader and my friendship to the other 7 raiders. I can not think of any solution on how to save our guild or how to please everyone. Any advice on what to do would be appreciated!
Sincerely,
Trapped and Torn
Drama Mama Lisa: For a "casual and fun" raiding group, one hour's delay one night a week hardly represents an insurmountable hurdle. Start the raid later that one night, for heaven's sake! It's not as if you're racing for world first here. Make sure Miss Girlfriend is stocked up, repaired and ready to roll the moment she logs in those nights, and keep forging ahead with the positive team spirit you've already built. An ugly ball of drama and pride gets rolled up when demands and ultimatums like these get laid down and people start standing on principle. It's an hour. Take a deep breath, and remind your guildmates that you have a good thing going. An hour's not too much time to sacrifice for that.If that single hour is going to bring down the whole house of cards, that's another matter. But even so, I'm more concerned actually about the fate of those other DPSers whose very mention the GM seems to brush aside. Do they want to raid, too? What's being done to accommodate them? Even if you ride out this current scheduling squall, your guild will be swamped if you don't have procedures in place to cover all of these situations -- and as an officer, it's your responsibility to take action. Get thee over to Officers' Quarters and stock up with some suggestions to bring to the table. With hard work and patience, you'll be able to shore up this fledgling guild you've found yourself in and keep a good thing rolling for some time to come. Good luck!
Drama Mama Robin: I'm afraid I must disagree with Lisa. I think that a "casual and fun" raiding guild is probably peopled with players whose otherwise busy schedules overlap just enough so that they can raid together. One hour later can mean a late bedtime for someone who has to get up early to go to work the next day.I also share Lisa's concerns that the other DPSers' needs aren't being met in general and particularly in this situation.
It seems to me that while you feel loyalty toward your guild leader, he feels much more loyalty to his girlfriend than he does everyone else in the guild. It also seems that The Girlfriend takes advantage of this. She's also not very much of a team player if she can't agree to let someone else swap in the one day she can't get there on time.
On the other hand, I am a little confused as to how the seven raiders who issued the ultimatum are defining "replace" in this scenario. Do they want her replaced for all guild nights? Or do they want her to only be replaced the one night that she can't make it on time? If the ultimatum is that she be replaced by the other DPS on all nights because she can't make one day, then they are being unreasonable. Ultimatums are rarely a good idea, either way.
Perhaps if things were presented to the GL in the way of giving more opportunities to other raiders and preparing yourselves for absences, this would be more appealing to the Guild Leader. Maybe it's the Us vs. Your Girlfriend attitude that is causing the friction. I think Lisa's advice of going over to Officers' Quarters for some tips on presenting the DPS rotation issue is excellent, and you could use that to help phrase the request.
In my opinion, the fairest solution is to let the other DPSers who want to raid have the night she can't make on time, but otherwise let her keep her spot when she can. If that is what the Guild Couple are refusing to do -- even if you present it diplomatically -- then I agree that is a deal-breaker. If she's unreasonable and he gives in to her unreasonableness, she will learn that she is the real guild leader. Any other time that she doesn't get what she wants, he will give in -- loot, another schedule change, a personality conflict, etc. Think of this as the sign of what is to come and go ahead with the new guild without feeling guilty.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com. Read Robin's section of this post on how to get your letter answered and please remember that we cannot answer privately.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
LynMars Jan 16th 2012 9:11AM
I'm with Robin on this one. Demands and ultimatums in a "casual fun guild" are anything but casual and fun; both sides here are being demanding. There's definitely a few compromises that can be made here for everyone, and if you've got more than 10 people willing to raid, swapping in a DPS sub for 1 raid night isn't the end of the world.
Fluufykins Jan 16th 2012 11:39AM
The fact that they've already threatened to "leave and start their own guild"... dude, if you don't see where this is going already, you're in for a shock. Your guild already fell apart. If they're unwilling to start 1 hour late, 1 day a week... then just imagine the crap they'll pull when loot drops. Each and every one of those who threatened to quit should be /gkicked and permanently blacklisted.
Listen, I know you're all insecure (clearly) but for god's sake, there's 12 million other people to fill those slots. Kick the impatient jackasses and move on. If you're not good enough to do that without them, then tough. Welcome to LFR. My god, the fact that drama even exists in a cooperative guild in a fantasy game speaks volumes about the collective intelligence and general personality of your whole guild. Cut your losses.
redwinger_6 Jan 16th 2012 9:13AM
The woman has the thing the guild leader wants more than raiding. He's not going to risk his access to that over a video game unless he's an idiot or was thinking about dumping her anyway, regardless of how unreasonable she is. Is it right? No. Is it going to happen anyway? Most likely.
Pryn Jan 16th 2012 10:55AM
Yeah because every relationship revolves only upon "that", and "that" must be the only reason he'd be even considering prioritising her.
GTFO with the misogyny and reducing the GL to whipped status.
For what its worth I'm not defending for what the GL is doing, I agree with Robin its not cool to try mess with a guild purely for the sake of his GF, especially when its an agreed upon schedule that others already committed to.
shatnerstorm2 Jan 16th 2012 11:57AM
@ Pryn:
You'd be surprised at how many guys I've met that think with their little heads when their big heads should be saying, "Why the hell am I doing this?" Either way, like redwinger said, it's not right, but it's probably gonna happen regardless, because relationships often make logic go out the window for both men and women.
Jorges Jan 16th 2012 12:12PM
Like the poster above says, she gives him "something" that the your whole guild won't, and it doesn't involve raiding. Unless he is stupid, he won't risk that just for a video game. It's not fair, but that's how it is. She's obviously very selfish and this guy doesn't have enough nuts to put her in her place without hurting their relationship. In the end, the whole guild will suffer.
I think is time for you and your friends to move on.
Jorges Jan 16th 2012 12:18PM
@ Pryn: It's not about misogyny, it's about how usually people put their priorities in relationships. I'm lucky enough to have a GF that loves the game and loves to raid with me, and will never put me to choose between her and the game. But I also know that I'm in the rare 10% of relationships that work like this. For the looks of it, the GL of this guild belongs to the other 90%.
Phredreeke Jan 16th 2012 4:43PM
How is the idea that "men likes sex" misogynic?
Cennic Jan 16th 2012 5:38PM
@Pryn
The bottom line is that whether you want to accept that misogyny does in fact exist and whether or not this situation does in fact suggest that that is EXACTLY whats going on with the GL, it does...and it does. Clearly his loyalties lie with his GF. One way or another, thats wrong, and the fact that he won't tell her so is indicative of the fact that yes, he is in fact "whipped". Otherwise he'd just tell her she's wrong and force her to deal with it or at least to make some kind of compromise. Not to mention, based on the given evidence of her selfish attitude, does she seem like the type of girl that dates guys she can't bring down to "whipped status" in the first place? No, no she does not. Speculation? Maybe. Likely regardless? Most definitely. Am I suggesting in any way that he's whipped because of or that their relationship revolves around only "that"? No, I am not. But he's whipped nonetheless. The reason for him being so is irrelevant.
OrloChavez Jan 16th 2012 8:41PM
Just to be clear ... when we say "that" we mean she bakes a mean chocolate cake, right?
I mean ... right?
Pyromelter Jan 17th 2012 6:55AM
I am shocked and saddened by the amount of people in this small thread that equate horniness with misogyny.
happyfatkid Jan 17th 2012 1:26PM
Ok stop throwing around misogyny, that means he hates women, he obviously does not hate women, so stop using the word
Ghost Dancer Jan 16th 2012 9:23AM
The GF sounds like a very selfish person. If a schedule is agreed upon for a 10 man group, 1 person cannot then demand to change that arrangement. And the fact she is using her BFs rank to get her own way (whilst inconveniencing the 9 other people) just sounds like bad news to me. If the guild leader gives in to her demands I say go and form another guild because this will not be a one-off thing.
shatnerstorm2 Jan 16th 2012 11:40AM
I have to agree with this. One person thinking s/he's the center of the universe and that everybody else should cave in to their demands is bad enough (and this applies to real life too, not just raids); when it's the GL's main squeeze, that's a recipe for disaster. Get out while you can, IMO.
LynMars Jan 16th 2012 3:55PM
Definitely strikes me as someone who doesn't believe those internet people are real or for anything more than her whimsy. From the guild's reactions, it strikes me like a last straw, honestly; like they've already caved before (the transferring on the GL's insistence makes me feel this way; I know a lot of folks do transfer as a group or to be with friends, but given the rest of the issue...) and now they've had it with her selfish behavior and the GL always giving in to her and not considering the other 8 people on his raid team. or they're just as bad with the not giving in problem and won't compromise for whatever reason. The whole thing feels like blocked communication and stubbornness.
Spellotape Jan 16th 2012 9:29AM
The girlfriend is not just "the girlfriend" in the context of "annoying person keeping us from raiding" - this is the person your GL is in a relationship with and that is greater than you, your raid, or anything else. While her demands are unreasonable, I can't imagine why the GL would choose anyone over her - couples who raid together tend to prize that thing: raiding together.
Meanwhile, if this raiding team is working on Dragon Soul they should be able to complete many of the encounters down a person without issue. Many of the fights are one-tankable and if your second tank has a DPS offspec, all the better. An hour is not very long and an entire reschedule for it seems bizarre.
Devin Jan 16th 2012 10:50AM
The only thing bizarre here is your attitude towards raiding/relationships.
I have a GF that I love very much; still, i'm not going to dick over the other 8 people in the raid just to appease her unreasonable whims. There's a term for that.... I let you figure it out.
Whether or not they're in DS content is also irrellevant. Maybe to you it can be nine manned but others may need every person they can get their hands on. I know my raid team 1 tanks it and I go dps along with 2 healing everything that we can (I go back to tanking on Ultraxion, obviously) to make things faster and have more time on the progression fights; yes, even casuals like to see progression.
Nagaina Jan 16th 2012 11:07AM
@ Spellotape ~
There's nothing at all bizarre in saying "real life is greater than WoW." It is.
jedi8187 Jan 16th 2012 11:56AM
@Nagiana
Except there are 8 other real people, who have made time to do this activity that are being let down. This isn't fair to them. If you and your friends had set up a time to hang out. If the GF did something like this in that situation most people would say he was whipped and she was a witch. But for some reason people forget basic etiquette when there is a computer screen between people. Those 8 other raiders aren't programs, and in this situation aren't even really strangers from the sound of it, they are real people, again it sounds like people that consider each other friends. Is it really fair to let down 8 friends for you GF's unreasonableness? No. Not "in real life" and not in game.
Real life come first is true, when it's things likes kids, jobs, and so on. Usually emergencies, not But when you agree to be there for a raid, that is an agreement with real people. Heck I even accept "My gf/bf and I haven't gotten to hang out the two of us in a while", or similar. It's about reason not to be at the raid, not reason for the raid to change times.
The problem isn't she can't be there, well not really. It's that the whole raid is being incontinenced for one person because of favoritism. If one of the other raiders had this happen to them would the GL do the same? Most likely not, he would replace them that one night and there would be no drama, as if the person didn't like that solution the would be told they could leave the guild. The problem is 8 real people are being held hostage because of one.
My advice to the letter: You and the others who can raid on that night do so. Pick up others in the guild to fill in for the GF, and possibly the GL. If you don't have enough PUG the last couple slots. Do the raid on your own, invite the GL, don't exclude him. Just make it obvious that you are going to raid at the time best for the majority with or without his approval. Don't be passive, as that is silently accepting the behavior, stand up and do something. Form another guild, or raid without either of them. Do not let his spinelessness prevent you and the guild having fun. But this will probablly happen again.
Nagaina Jan 16th 2012 12:52PM
@ Jedi ~
My advice to this group would be to put on their big raider panties and adjust their schedules. I'm with Lisa on this one -- if your "casual and fun" raid schedule is so inflexible as to be unable to absorb an hour's adjustment, I have to seriously question what definition of "casual and fun" is being used.