Blue Posts and Other WoW News: Good and bad homogenization
by Adam Holisky 
Jan 17th 2012 at 10:15PM
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Blue posts
Takralus -- Leveling
Quote:
Thanks for the responses,
It's not that I have to be instant 85 ( or something ) it's just that the process of leveling to 85 is incredibly repetitive, lots of traveling and takes long. The thing is you just don't have an alternative to leveling, it's mandatory. You can't go around doing BG's or something, since it just doesn't grant as much xp and you can't do raids etc.
Furthermore, I play this 'MMORPG' not because I like leveling, but because I like PVE and occasionaly raids. I don't chose my games for the journey, but for the reward and in this case the journey is ( in my opinion ) too long for people who do not enjoy it. [ don't leave comments to tell me to not play this game if I don't like leveling, because i'll do it anyways since I enjoy the level 85 material a lot ].
Thanks for the responses,
It's not that I have to be instant 85 ( or something ) it's just that the process of leveling to 85 is incredibly repetitive, lots of traveling and takes long. The thing is you just don't have an alternative to leveling, it's mandatory. You can't go around doing BG's or something, since it just doesn't grant as much xp and you can't do raids etc.
Furthermore, I play this 'MMORPG' not because I like leveling, but because I like PVE and occasionaly raids. I don't chose my games for the journey, but for the reward and in this case the journey is ( in my opinion ) too long for people who do not enjoy it. [ don't leave comments to tell me to not play this game if I don't like leveling, because i'll do it anyways since I enjoy the level 85 material a lot ].
Actually, with heirlooms, rested XP, guild perks etc. you can vary your alt's levelling experience quite a lot. I'm in the process of levelling a new character and I found I could skip many of the zones I used to have to go through and try some of the others that I haven't visited since Cataclysm revamped things, I really enjoyed it! But then, I love levelling ;)
Granted, once you hit Outland there are one or two zones that are tricky to avoid, but you really don't need to stay there very long with all these XP bonuses. Also, with all the dungeon quests located inside the instances now, you can get heaps of XP in one hit through doing each of them just once as you level.
Bashiok -- New Talent Tree System: Stop Homoginizing
There is homogenization that is good for the game, and homogenization that is bad for the game.
Consider Blood Lust/Heroism and Rebirth (battle rez). Those are very powerful abilities and probably mandatory for raiding. If shaman and druids were the only classes that brought them still, then every 10-player raid group would need a shaman and druid to be successful. In a game with 10-player raids and 11 classes, that means someone is excluded. Even worse, if yours is the guild with 2 really good rogues or hunters, you are going to have to make the choice to sit one of those players out in order to be optimal. Even if that hunter is a really nice guy or a good player, he can't come because you need Blood Lust. We don't think that's fun, and we know a lot of players agree. There are several abilities in this mandatory or near-mandatory category: interrupts, raid buffs, dispels and so on. We have no problems spreading those around, or homogenizing the abilities that mean groups can bring the player they want to.
The other category though is making each class feel a bit different when you play them. These are abilities or mechanics that tend to make your class or spec feel unique, but aren't mandatory. There are a lot of these in the game: Chakra, Cauterize, Bladestorm, Demonic Circle, etc. There are of course still going to be healing, survival, damage and movement abilities in the game that are equivalent in their effect as another classes' ability, but they all work a little differently, and hopefully make you feel different when you group with other characters or play different alts. It's important to us to protect those differences in the game.
Consider Blood Lust/Heroism and Rebirth (battle rez). Those are very powerful abilities and probably mandatory for raiding. If shaman and druids were the only classes that brought them still, then every 10-player raid group would need a shaman and druid to be successful. In a game with 10-player raids and 11 classes, that means someone is excluded. Even worse, if yours is the guild with 2 really good rogues or hunters, you are going to have to make the choice to sit one of those players out in order to be optimal. Even if that hunter is a really nice guy or a good player, he can't come because you need Blood Lust. We don't think that's fun, and we know a lot of players agree. There are several abilities in this mandatory or near-mandatory category: interrupts, raid buffs, dispels and so on. We have no problems spreading those around, or homogenizing the abilities that mean groups can bring the player they want to.
The other category though is making each class feel a bit different when you play them. These are abilities or mechanics that tend to make your class or spec feel unique, but aren't mandatory. There are a lot of these in the game: Chakra, Cauterize, Bladestorm, Demonic Circle, etc. There are of course still going to be healing, survival, damage and movement abilities in the game that are equivalent in their effect as another classes' ability, but they all work a little differently, and hopefully make you feel different when you group with other characters or play different alts. It's important to us to protect those differences in the game.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
hellvector Jan 17th 2012 10:32PM
The leveling one cracks me up. He doesn't like leveling, but he only likes PVE, but doesn't really raid? So then what he does like is basically level, without the leveling?
Langis Langley Jan 17th 2012 10:56PM
That's not what he said at all, but way to wildly misrepresent his argument.
lividmonkey Jan 17th 2012 10:58PM
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that.
hellvector Jan 18th 2012 12:03AM
"Furthermore, I play this 'MMORPG' not because I like leveling, but because I like PVE and occasionaly raids."
So if he does PVE other than raids, one can assume he is doing either normal dungeons, heroics, or quests? Questing, is what he is likely describing as "leveling" so we narrow it down to instances. Well I just leveled a holy priest entirely in randoms, and it went pretty quick, doing any instance no more than maybe 5 times. Fairly certain randoms qualify as an excellent PVE, non questing, way to level. His argument makes no sense.
Turtell Jan 18th 2012 12:08AM
Honestly though, what do you say to that? He says to not tell him to piss off and play another game, but that's about all you can say to it. If you hate leveling 100%, you hate MMOs, heck, you probably hate RPGs. Complaint does not compute.
Possum Jan 18th 2012 1:47AM
MMOs are about leveling. Whether it's the level of your character or the ilevel of your gear. Each level of ilevel you gain is a little reward, it's practically the backbone of the game.
Noyou Jan 18th 2012 3:28AM
Wow, I usually hear leveling is too easy/too fast. I think this dude was trolling. There are a few alternatives to questing- which it seems he doesn't like.
-Dungeons
-PvP
-Killing mobs
-Herbing/Mining
-Archaeology (from level 20)
I just got my 9th toon to 85, and there are still many zones I've never did more than a handful of quests in. I kind of go with what I know to level faster. Anytime I feel there is no zone I want to do in my level range, I go kill things or go gather.
In MoP, the Pet Battles system is planned to give people XP, so that is yet another way to level.
tl;dr: There is in fact many alternatives to questing.
Gniver Jan 18th 2012 3:41AM
Firstly, I'm pretty sure the OP meant to write "PvP and the occasional raiding".
Second, Blizzard itself have more or less stated that the "end-game" at max level is what is important, and it is certainly where all the content patch resources go.
I'm a levelling man myself, but I can see the argument: "If end-game is king and levelling doesn't matter to end-game, and it isn't fun, why do I have to do it?"
And I think the answers are pretty weak: "Because MMO's have to have it. They have to! Everquest had it!" and "Its not so bad now, you can skip some of the boring parts, leaving only the rest of the boring parts."
Snuzzle Jan 18th 2012 11:00AM
I think levelling is what separates an MMO from, say, an FPS. You cat just jump in and start with the big kids and I like that. I wouldn't feel very comfortable if I logged in, went to do a dungeon and heard the tank say "LOL SO I JUST MADE THIS GUY THIS SHOULD BE FUN".
I think I agree. With all the myriad of ways to level nowadays (pvp is an incredibly viable way to level, wins give you a ridiculous amount of xp sub-60) if you just flat out don't enjoy the process of having to advance your character, this probably isn't the genre for you.
Gniver Jan 18th 2012 12:24PM
@ Snuzzle
Leveling does not (necessarily) teach you to tank, so that tank could just as well say "LOL I JUST RESPECCED PROT THIS SHOULD BE FUN." The point here is that levelling is not a great teaching experience for end-game. Levelling is more like a separate game.
Anyway, y'all can't have it both ways; you can't say that levelling is very important and at the same time say it is so easy it is no big deal. If it is easy peachy no big deal, why do people who don't what to have to do it? And if it is vital to the genre, why are all the patches, the hotfixes, all the blogs, all the prestige and all the special rewards about everything but levelling?
Raiders don't feel that they are advancing their character when they level, because none of the choices, none of the gear and very few of the player skills apply to the end-game.
Bapo Jan 18th 2012 12:47AM
Now if only raise ally was on par with Brez (glyphed of course) or... is there a minor glyph for raise ally to full hp that I'm completely unaware of?
SR Jan 18th 2012 3:00AM
While they COULD'VE added that glyph, they instead gave us a glyph that makes us cast Death Gate faster.
Imnick Jan 18th 2012 6:01AM
But my hearthstone to a useless zone in the middle of nowhere, used only to change runeforges once in a blue moon when I get a new weapon, is far more important than a battle res ability I might use every raid night!
Drakkenfyre Jan 18th 2012 7:20AM
That "useless" hearth might not be so useless while you are leveling. There are no other trainers anywhere.
lazymangaka Jan 18th 2012 7:28AM
Because I respec so often, I've spent way more time than I care to in Ebon Hold. It really does feel like a second Hearthstone at this point.
Snuzzle Jan 18th 2012 11:05AM
I know this is probably greedy of me, but I like that the original is still the best (when glyphed of course). Though it's annoying when the tank drops and I (a druid with glyphed Brez) go to grab him only to find out the trigger happy DK got there first, and now the healers all have a heart attack trying to get the tank to full before he gets splattered.
Amaxe Jan 18th 2012 11:53AM
"That "useless" hearth might not be so useless while you are leveling. There are no other trainers anywhere."
A rather annoying feature now, on par with Shamans having to go back to Exodar to train in the early days of TBC.
"Because I respec so often, I've spent way more time than I care to in Ebon Hold. It really does feel like a second Hearthstone at this point."
Call it half a hearthstone. Unless they changed it (or I totally missed the feature since wolk began), it will get you there, but you have to burn a hearth to get back.
Personally I thought it a PITA -- once you quit questing in EPL, it was inconvenience pure and simple.
Vincentmagius Jan 18th 2012 2:26PM
I was thinking about this when the brez was brought up. I'd be fine with losing the extra 2 seconds on the Death Gate and getting some additional health on the Raise Ally. I think it could stand to be 40-50% return to health without being OP.
Raise Ally - 20% health/mana, no glyph
Soulstone - 30% , 40% glyphed
Rebirth - 20%, 100%/no reagent glyphed
I can understand Soulstone not being 100%, but I don't really see why Raise Ally can't be 30% and/or glyphed to 40/100.
Derrek Jan 18th 2012 3:18PM
"Now if only raise ally was on par with Brez (glyphed of course) or... is there a minor glyph for raise ally to full hp that I'm completely unaware of?"
Unfortunately no.
The theory is that us Warlocks got one for Soulstone ( half a glyph, actually.. from base 30% HP to 70% HP w/ glyph as opposed to the Druid glyph that bumps it up to 100% ) but it's a Major glyph so we rarely have an excuse to use it.
I'm hoping Blizzard will change this before Pandaria ( rather, before the Pre-Panda Patch ) as I've seen people take my B-Rez only to die seconds later due not to bad timing but to rezzing with too little HP for the healers to keep up during that crucial moment. Honestly it makes my battle rezzing ability feel quite weak and nearly useless at times.
While I'm still rambling on the topic, it would be nice if battle-rezzes - in PvE anyway - gave the player a short buff that reduced incoming damage for a few seconds so that healers have time to react to there being one more player to heal. Three seconds of 50% damage reduction in raids and dungeons would make using a B-Rez much more fun for those who would otherwise feel as if it had been wasted because of healers being busy focusing on other people, poor timing on the part of the rezzee, etc etc. Rezzing someone to get them back in the fight feels awesome. Rezzing them only to have them die seconds later feels lame.
TL;DR: Battle Rezzes need to be reliable across the board, not just for Druids.
Ata Jan 18th 2012 2:05AM
The hunter in me goes 'That hunter can just go Beast Mastery and bring a corehound! Ancient Hysteria go! Who needs a shaman?'.